Am I making a big mistake?

Caroline · 07-24-2007, 05:03 PM

Twenty years ago I signed up for a longitudinal cardiac study. Every few years they drag me in for a treadmill test, blood tests for cholesterol, glucose, etc. They assess my diet, weigh me, measure my fat (increasing!) and otherwise prod and poke.

More recently, they've added the occasional carotid artery ultrasound and a heart scan. (I refuse any radiation, as well as the storage of my DNA for some "unknown future use.")

I signed up for this to help contribute to medical knowledge. Lately, however, I've been wondering if this is wise.

They've not found anything out of the ordinary yet, (saints be praised), but what happens if they do?

On the one hand, I'd get a heads-up on any conditions. But I've just read the thread on unnecessary medical tests, and see that screening can do more harm than good.

What's more, if they someday find high blood pressure, or pre-diabetes, or whatever, does it become a "pre-existing condition" and affect my ability to buy medical coverage when I'm no longer working?

On the other hand, these tests might someday prove to an insurer that I did NOT have certain pre-existing conditions -- a good thing.

Currently, I have the results sent to my doctor. I could discontinue that, but nothing is out of reach of the lawyers if they really want it.

Anybody else out there engaged in this type of volunteer program? Has anyone ever run into this or have an educated opinion? Should I continue to do my tiny bit for medical science, or might it come back to haunt me later?

Finally, there an even broader question here -- should one ever try to get tests outside their insurance plan, so as to avoid black marks? For example, would one be wise to get glucose tests from one of those mobile labs and, if found to be pre-diabetic, improve one's diet and exercise without notifying one's doctor and insurer?

I'm probably being really paranoid here, but I worry more about health care than about any other retirement issue, bar none.

donheff · 07-25-2007, 06:39 AM

What a great health care system we have when people have to fear participating in studies like this because of what the insurance companies may do with their information.

kcowan · 07-25-2007, 08:13 AM

Although I have no fault health insurance, I encounter this same concern for travel insurance. There are so many exclusions for pre-existing conditions, that many people just can't afford to travel. My attitude is that it is better to do the screening and deal with health than try to outwit the insurance company.

**Rich_in_Tampa** · 07-25-2007, 02:14 PM

Caroline, you bring up some interesting dilemmas. It occurs to me that there is a strong altruistic side to volunteering for a research study. What is learned in this controlled, over-scrutinized, over-tested group of volunteers has the potential to improve the outcome of thousands some day.

I know this doesn't answer your concerns, but the setting is different from getting total body scanning at your local Walmart just for fun.

cute fuzzy bunny · 07-25-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline

What's more, if they someday find high blood pressure, or pre-diabetes, or whatever, does it become a "pre-existing condition" and affect my ability to buy medical coverage when I'm no longer working?

Absolutely.

Rich - your comment is also spot on. Since my little run-in with blue cross and kaiser over an old test that wasnt even accurate, I'm actually leery of getting any tests done that arent absolutely necessary.

Which I guess means the insurance lobby has won. People are afraid to get remedial care because they're afraid that something bad might show up and then they couldnt get coverage.

Stupid.

Sandy · 07-25-2007, 03:33 PM

You might discuss this with the study investigators. When using "human subjects" there are often lots of restrictions on data sharing. .

If studies do not address these valid types of concerns, ensuring some type of "immunity" for participants, then this valuable research could be jeopardized. I bet most studies would rather amend their protocols to better protect participants than loose participation, especially in longitudenal studies

cute fuzzy bunny · 07-25-2007, 03:35 PM

I guess it depends on your honesty...if you test positive for some condition, when you fill out your application for insurance you're supposed to tell them.

Most insurers put in a clause that says if you didnt tell them about a condition that you were aware of, that you have to pay them back for any and all care rendered, although sometimes you get your premiums handed back to you as well.

After watching what my grocery company can put together with regards to what products I buy and correlated coupons they spit out weeks later, just because I occasionally use the same credit card...I'm a bit leery of the future prospects of cross linked information databases.

Achiever51 · 07-25-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny

...I'm a bit leery of the future prospects of cross linked information databases.

I'm actually terrified of where this is all going to lead. My DH was mistakenly diagnosed as being diabetic while undergoing in-hospital testing. Was put on a high dosage of injectable insulin that was totally unnecessary and found out weeks later that he is not diabetic at all. (Put him through hell, but that's another story.)

Almost immediately (literally days) after the mis-diagnosis we started getting mailings from drug companies, pharmacies and other health related companies about diabetes testing equipment and from insurance companies about insurance rates for high risk coverage. Despite the reversal in the diagnosis, we know the info is still in the system. Just try getting something like this changed! Nigh unto impossible. <sigh>

Brat · 07-25-2007, 05:13 PM

Sounds like a HIPAA violation to me!!!

**Rich_in_Tampa** · 07-25-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achiever51

I'm actually terrified of where this is all going to lead. My DH was mistakenly diagnosed as being diabetic while undergoing in-hospital testing. Was put on a high dosage of injectable insulin that was totally unnecessary and found out weeks later that he is not diabetic at all. (Put him through hell, but that's another story.)

Almost immediately (literally days) after the mis-diagnosis we started getting mailings from drug companies, pharmacies and other health related companies about diabetes testing equipment and from insurance companies about insurance rates for high risk coverage.

Hmm... very troubling. I would like to know where the big pharma's got their mailing list. Something is wrong.

Achiever51 · 07-25-2007, 06:06 PM

We were unable to ascertain precisely where the info came from -- the hospital and docs involved disavowed any such info release. We finally concluded it probably came from the big-box pharmacy selling the info collected from tracking the prescriptions. (We also received subscription info for diabetes-related magazines.)

donheff · 07-25-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achiever51

My DH was mistakenly diagnosed as being diabetic while undergoing in-hospital testing...
Almost immediately (literally days) after the mis-diagnosis we started getting mailings from drug companies, pharmacies and other health related companies about diabetes testing equipment and from insurance companies about insurance rates for high risk coverage. Despite the reversal in the diagnosis, we know the info is still in the system. Just try getting something like this changed! Nigh unto impossible. <sigh>

Good grief. If you could adequately document this you might have a civil suit -- one that is actually called or.

Brat · 07-25-2007, 09:52 PM

HIPAA is relatively new (from the pov of an old fart), but pharmacies are covered by the Act. Google HIPAA, consider whether or not you want to take this on. Costs nothing to file a complaint.

Achiever51 · 07-26-2007, 10:36 AM

Thanks for the advice. Will follow up -- I would hate for anyone else to go thru this hell.

JohnEyles · 08-03-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff

What a great health care system we have ...

We don't HAVE a health-care system. We have a disease-management
system !

Mach · 08-03-2007, 06:00 PM

I'd say don't worry about it, you're doing what's right, and seems unlikely it will cause you financial pain down the line. Thank you for volunteering for that medical study.

It is no doubt in the best interest of insurance companies to punish anyone who seeks preventative care, that reduces their bottom line.

It is in the best interest of society as a whole to both volunteer for more such studies, and to get as much preventative care as reasonable, since it ultimately reduces health care costs for everyone.

-Mach

Oldbabe · 08-06-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline

They've not found anything out of the ordinary yet, (saints be praised), but what happens if they do?

On the one hand, I'd get a heads-up on any conditions. But I've just read the thread on unnecessary medical tests, and see that screening can do more harm than good.

What's more, if they someday find high blood pressure, or pre-diabetes, or whatever, does it become a "pre-existing condition" and affect my ability to buy medical coverage when I'm no longer working?

On the other hand, these tests might someday prove to an insurer that I did NOT have certain pre-existing conditions -- a good thing.

I'm probably being really paranoid here, but I worry more about health care than about any other retirement issue, bar none.

You're not being paranoid at all. Those are VERY legitimate concerns. I would really suggest you read Arthur Agaston's book The South Beach Heart Health Revolution. He is a heart surgeon who believes that we should all be doing what you're doing but he disagrees with many of the current medical interventions.

Also, if they turn up some condition it will very likely go to the Medical Bureau (can't remember the exact name), whose existence I discovered as I was applying for individual health insurance recently. All your medical info is available through this central bureau.

In addition, it doesn't matter how many conditions you prove that you DON"T have; insurance companies ignore that completely and only focus on what might cost them money now or in the future.

lazygood4nothinbum · 08-06-2007, 05:20 PM

i think it is wiser to improve one's diet and exercise from the get go.

what if during one of these body scans the lab finds something that could be considered "pre-existing" to a new insurance policy but that might not noticeably effect you until you are in your 90s. do you then get to pay extra high premiums for the next 30 years over a condition which is essentially, at least for now, benign?

TromboneAl · 08-06-2007, 07:39 PM

When I went to the dentist for the Early-retirement-recommended cavity repair, I was in the chair, and the assistant says to me

"Well, how's that heart murmur?"

"Wha??"

It turns out that they gave me my form to update, and when I put it back on the counter, someone else picked it up, thought it was his, and checked a few boxes for his serious conditions.

I asked for a fresh form, and asked that the old form be shredded. I could just picture myself on the phone with BCBS "No, no, I never had a heart murmur!"

MasterBlaster · 08-06-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Well, how's that heart murmur?

That doesn't make you very confident that they worked on the correct tooth now did i

07-24-2007, 05:03 PM	#1
Caroline Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 903	Am I making a big mistake? Twenty years ago I signed up for a longitudinal cardiac study. Every few years they drag me in for a treadmill test, blood tests for cholesterol, glucose, etc. They assess my diet, weigh me, measure my fat (increasing!) and otherwise prod and poke. More recently, they've added the occasional carotid artery ultrasound and a heart scan. (I refuse any radiation, as well as the storage of my DNA for some "unknown future use.") I signed up for this to help contribute to medical knowledge. Lately, however, I've been wondering if this is wise. They've not found anything out of the ordinary yet, (saints be praised), but what happens if they do? On the one hand, I'd get a heads-up on any conditions. But I've just read the thread on unnecessary medical tests, and see that screening can do more harm than good. What's more, if they someday find high blood pressure, or pre-diabetes, or whatever, does it become a "pre-existing condition" and affect my ability to buy medical coverage when I'm no longer working? On the other hand, these tests might someday prove to an insurer that I did NOT have certain pre-existing conditions -- a good thing. Currently, I have the results sent to my doctor. I could discontinue that, but nothing is out of reach of the lawyers if they really want it. Anybody else out there engaged in this type of volunteer program? Has anyone ever run into this or have an educated opinion? Should I continue to do my tiny bit for medical science, or might it come back to haunt me later? Finally, there an even broader question here -- should one ever try to get tests outside their insurance plan, so as to avoid black marks? For example, would one be wise to get glucose tests from one of those mobile labs and, if found to be pre-diabetic, improve one's diet and exercise without notifying one's doctor and insurer? I'm probably being really paranoid here, but I worry more about health care than about any other retirement issue, bar none.

07-25-2007, 06:39 AM	#2
donheff Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,688	What a great health care system we have when people have to fear participating in studies like this because of what the insurance companies may do with their information. __________________ Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson

07-25-2007, 08:13 AM	#3
kcowan Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific latitude 20/49 Posts: 1,544	Although I have no fault health insurance, I encounter this same concern for travel insurance. There are so many exclusions for pre-existing conditions, that many people just can't afford to travel. My attitude is that it is better to do the screening and deal with health than try to outwit the insurance company. __________________ For the fun of it...Keith

07-25-2007, 02:14 PM	#4
Rich_in_Tampa Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 5,882	Caroline, you bring up some interesting dilemmas. It occurs to me that there is a strong altruistic side to volunteering for a research study. What is learned in this controlled, over-scrutinized, over-tested group of volunteers has the potential to improve the outcome of thousands some day. I know this doesn't answer your concerns, but the setting is different from getting total body scanning at your local Walmart just for fun. __________________ Rich Tampa, FL (10% retired) As if you didn't know..If the above message happens to contain medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any medical purpose whatsoever. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.

07-25-2007, 03:33 PM	#6
Sandy Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 856	You might discuss this with the study investigators. When using "human subjects" there are often lots of restrictions on data sharing. . If studies do not address these valid types of concerns, ensuring some type of "immunity" for participants, then this valuable research could be jeopardized. I bet most studies would rather amend their protocols to better protect participants than loose participation, especially in longitudenal studies __________________ I would not have anyone adopt my mode of living...but I would have each one be very careful to find out and pursue his own way, and not his father's or his mother's or his neighbor's instead. Thoreau, Walden

07-25-2007, 03:35 PM	#7
cute fuzzy bunny Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Losing my whump Posts: 22,527	I guess it depends on your honesty...if you test positive for some condition, when you fill out your application for insurance you're supposed to tell them. Most insurers put in a clause that says if you didnt tell them about a condition that you were aware of, that you have to pay them back for any and all care rendered, although sometimes you get your premiums handed back to you as well. After watching what my grocery company can put together with regards to what products I buy and correlated coupons they spit out weeks later, just because I occasionally use the same credit card...I'm a bit leery of the future prospects of cross linked information databases. __________________ Many an optimist has become rich by buying out a pessimist

07-25-2007, 05:13 PM	#9
Brat Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,827	Sounds like a HIPAA violation to me!!! __________________ Duck bjorn.

07-25-2007, 06:06 PM	#11
Achiever51 Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 770	We were unable to ascertain precisely where the info came from -- the hospital and docs involved disavowed any such info release. We finally concluded it probably came from the big-box pharmacy selling the info collected from tracking the prescriptions. (We also received subscription info for diabetes-related magazines.) __________________ The best things in life....are not things.

07-25-2007, 09:52 PM	#13
Brat Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,827	HIPAA is relatively new (from the pov of an old fart), but pharmacies are covered by the Act. Google HIPAA, consider whether or not you want to take this on. Costs nothing to file a complaint. __________________ Duck bjorn.

07-26-2007, 10:36 AM	#14
Achiever51 Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 770	Thanks for the advice. Will follow up -- I would hate for anyone else to go thru this hell. __________________ The best things in life....are not things.

08-03-2007, 06:00 PM	#16
Mach Dryer sheet aficionado Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	I'd say don't worry about it, you're doing what's right, and seems unlikely it will cause you financial pain down the line. Thank you for volunteering for that medical study. It is no doubt in the best interest of insurance companies to punish anyone who seeks preventative care, that reduces their bottom line. It is in the best interest of society as a whole to both volunteer for more such studies, and to get as much preventative care as reasonable, since it ultimately reduces health care costs for everyone. -Mach

08-06-2007, 05:20 PM	#18
lazygood4nothinbum Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,759	i think it is wiser to improve one's diet and exercise from the get go. what if during one of these body scans the lab finds something that could be considered "pre-existing" to a new insurance policy but that might not noticeably effect you until you are in your 90s. do you then get to pay extra high premiums for the next 30 years over a condition which is essentially, at least for now, benign? __________________ "off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin "life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901

08-06-2007, 07:39 PM	#19
TromboneAl Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,116	When I went to the dentist for the Early-retirement-recommended cavity repair, I was in the chair, and the assistant says to me "Well, how's that heart murmur?" "Wha??" It turns out that they gave me my form to update, and when I put it back on the counter, someone else picked it up, thought it was his, and checked a few boxes for his serious conditions. I asked for a fresh form, and asked that the old form be shredded. I could just picture myself on the phone with BCBS "No, no, I never had a heart murmur!" __________________ - Al -- Always serious, never joking. No, wait. Never serious... Always... I forget.