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Old 06-09-2016, 08:10 AM   #21
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That's what I assume about everything I really, really like
Well, I actually think there could be something to it.

Seems there have been many times in the past, that it is determined such-and-such is good for you. So companies offer up that substance in refined form. But it turns out it is all the other 'stuff' that you get along with that substance (like maybe a whole carrot, instead of just the beta-carotene) that has the positive effect. The substance alone may not help, might even hurt by tricking your body into thinking it has enough, and shutting down the absorbency of the other things normally seen with that desired substance.

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Old 06-09-2016, 08:13 AM   #22
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I'm curious about the real benefits of honey (besides its flavor). I've searched and searched, and never found what seemed like reliable information - just some strongly-worded opinions by self-styled nutrition experts, who abound on the Internet.

Raw honey tastes much, much sweeter to me than does regular sugar. In fact, when I eat raw honey, I always think "This stuff has such a delicious flavor. If only it were not so excessively sweet - it makes my teeth hurt."

I can't say I've ever deliberately tasted HFCS - have only used corn syrup in certain recipes that call for it.

Finally, ERD50, if bee parts are the benefits, you could get even more benefit by simply eating one dead bee. Just catch it as it exits a flower and its little legs are full of pollen. I suppose you could put some honey on the bee to make it taste better.

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As far as sweetness, honey has the same glucose/fructose ratio as the often vilified "high fructose corn syrup".

Is there any scientific evidence that the 'many other ingredients' in honey are beneficial? Is there really enough bees wings and legs, and traces of pollen and bees wax to have an effect?

I don't use much in the way of sweeteners myself, but honey can be a very tasty thing on some foods, on occasion. And the 'real', and less refined grades of maple syrup.

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Old 06-09-2016, 08:19 AM   #23
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Here's what I do when selecting ANY product with sugar, from any source.

ONE TEASPOON of sugar equals @ 4 grams. (Look at your sugar bag label).

I just look at any label, take the sugar in grams per serving, divide by 4, and ask myself if I would scoop that many teaspoons of sugar out of a sugar bowl and eat it.

Example: 8 oz of skim milk (healthy, right?) has 12 grams of sugar (3 teaspoons!!)

8 oz. orange juice....24-30 grams of sugar (YIKES!!!) 6-8 teaspoons!!!!!!

So a nice glass of skim milk and a glass of OJ for breakfast....9-11 teaspoons of sugar!!! Scoop that out of the sugar bowl onto your counter and say would I EAT all that sugar?!?!?!!?!? And you haven't even added your cereal yet!!!

Regular Pepsi: ONE 12oz can.....41 grams of sugar (TEN plus teaspoons!!!)

This method will REALLY make you think!!!!

Look at items in your cupboards and use this calculation per serving.

It's frightening to think just how much sugar one does consume, naturally occurring or added.
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Old 06-09-2016, 08:55 AM   #24
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Example: 8 oz of skim milk (healthy, right?) has 12 grams of sugar (3 teaspoons!!)
Milk is healthy. How come other animals don't drink milk in adulthood? Maybe people shouldn't?

Your points valid. Sugar, natural or added, is all around us. The labels support the new USDA recommendation of less than 10% of our calories come from added sugars. Brings the USDA and WHO(5%?) recommended amounts closer.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:11 AM   #25
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An apple is four-to-six teaspoons of sugar, water, a tiny amount of fiber, and a tinier amount of vitamins.





The idea that whole fruits are magically better than their component parts is based on faulty reasoning.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:40 AM   #26
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Not sure what you are saying. Fermenting turns sugars into alcohols, and often, almost all the sugar is converted (as in a dry wine).

Unless you are talking about the weight gain effect of the alcohol itself. But, but, but... many studies indicate that 1-2 drinks daily is healthy for men, ~ 1 /day for women (assuming no alcohol related issues with the individual). So I assume any included sugars and alcohol are part of what is good.

And of course, I automatically consider any studies to the contrary to be flawed, biased, statistically insignificant, etc.

-ERD50
First, screw you for making me look all this up! LOL

So 'things I learned' - there are *four* macronutrients! Each has their own level of calories per gram:

Fat: 1 gram = 9 calories
Protein: 1 gram = 4 calories
Carbohydrates: 1 gram = 4 calories
Alcohol: 1 gram = 7 calories

I also read that alcohol is not considered a macronutrient because it does not provide any form of nutrition, but screw that too! I'm keeping it. It's definitely part of my regular diet, and I definitely need to count those calories as well...


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Old 06-09-2016, 09:45 AM   #27
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An apple is four-to-six teaspoons of sugar, water, a tiny amount of fiber, and a tinier amount of vitamins.
When it comes to apples, and most fruits and vegetables, the good stuff isn't usually listed on any labels.

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In the laboratory, apples have been found to have very strong antioxidant activity, inhibit cancer cell proliferation, decrease lipid oxidation, and lower cholesterol. Apples contain a variety of phytochemicals, including quercetin, catechin, phloridzin and chlorogenic acid, all of which are strong antioxidants.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:36 PM   #28
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Well, fructose is not "sugar" the food ingredient even though it is a type of sugar. The "sugar" specified as a food ingredient is sucrose.

I like how some companies have changed their ingredients to divide up all the different kinds of sugars in their products to hide the amount of sweeteners in them. You've read them yourself:

sugar, sucrose, dextrose, glucose, fructose, lactose (aka milk sugar), maltose, maltodextrin, high-fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, maple syrup, honey, .....

And just because Homo sapiens may not have the enzymes to digest sucralose, xylitol, sorbitol, and so on does not mean that the bacteria in your gut do not have the enzymes to convert these molecules into something else.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:46 PM   #29
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Added sugar seems to be getting more attention, and they even plan to call it out on nutrition labels.

Here is fructose from a grape or an apple:


My point is, that there's no difference, so why act as if added sugar is worse than regular sugar? Am I missing something? Adding sugar is bad, I get that, but all sugar is bad for you.

A recent report on NBC almost got it right. It said "So, a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice may be loaded with sugar." Can't figure out why they said "may be" instead of "is"--there's no mystery.
I agree. A glass of freshly squeezed orange juice IS loaded with sugar, not the granulated sugar cubes melted, but sugar nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
An apple is four-to-six teaspoons of sugar, water, a tiny amount of fiber, and a tinier amount of vitamins.


The idea that whole fruits are magically better than their component parts is based on faulty reasoning.
I could be wrong, but my body may react differently to eating a whole apple from consuming just 4-6 tablespoons of sugar. (This is something I can experiment, but I am not sure if I want to.) One thing I can speculate - I could probably drink a glass of water with say, 20 teaspoons of sugar in it in one sitting fairly easily, but I couldn't eat 4 apples in one sitting. I could do one. Two would be pushing it.
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Old 06-09-2016, 02:10 PM   #30
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Here's what I do when selecting ANY product with sugar, from any source.

ONE TEASPOON of sugar equals @ 4 grams. (Look at your sugar bag label).

I just look at any label, take the sugar in grams per serving, divide by 4, and ask myself if I would scoop that many teaspoons of sugar out of a sugar bowl and eat it.

Example: 8 oz of skim milk (healthy, right?) has 12 grams of sugar (3 teaspoons!!)

8 oz. orange juice....24-30 grams of sugar (YIKES!!!) 6-8 teaspoons!!!!!!

So a nice glass of skim milk and a glass of OJ for breakfast....9-11 teaspoons of sugar!!! Scoop that out of the sugar bowl onto your counter and say would I EAT all that sugar?!?!?!!?!? And you haven't even added your cereal yet!!!

Regular Pepsi: ONE 12oz can.....41 grams of sugar (TEN plus teaspoons!!!)

This method will REALLY make you think!!!!

Look at items in your cupboards and use this calculation per serving.

It's frightening to think just how much sugar one does consume, naturally occurring or added.

This is interesting thanks. MyFitnessPal says my daily sugar goal is 86 grams. I guess I am eating 21.5 sugar packets a day.
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Old 06-09-2016, 02:14 PM   #31
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Grapes and apples processed into alcoholic beverages can develop a really high sugar content, yet I seldom see ER forum posters talking about cutting out those things. No, it's always about cutting out bread, potatoes, doughnuts, and limiting fruit, because of the terrible CARBS!

Just messin' with you all...can't help myself ;^>

There was a nutritionist on NPR a few years ago who claimed we'd be better of giving our kids wine instead of grape juice as the sugar is worse for them than the alcohol. Easier to put them down for naps too.

Here in the lovely People's Republic of NY State the debate is on again over a sugar tax on soda. Guarantee it won't be applied to grape or apple juice. (NY is a large producer of apples and juice grapes.)
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:30 PM   #32
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This is interesting thanks. MyFitnessPal says my daily sugar goal is 86 grams. I guess I am eating 21.5 sugar packets a day.
MFP currently uses 15% of your daily calories as your grams of sugar. When it gets changed pretty much requires the new food labels to break out added sugar from naturally occurring sugar.

I seldom stay under their sugar goal just because of the amount of fruits I eat. Add in Ben and Jerry’s and I'm always over.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:31 PM   #33
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There was a nutritionist on NPR a few years ago who claimed we'd be better of giving our kids wine instead of grape juice as the sugar is worse for them than the alcohol. Easier to put them down for naps too.

Here in the lovely People's Republic of NY State the debate is on again over a sugar tax on soda. Guarantee it won't be applied to grape or apple juice. (NY is a large producer of apples and juice grapes.)
The City of Brotherly Love is going to beat you to it. Novel Strategy Puts Big Soda Tax Within Philadelphia’s Reach. They are pushing it as a way to raise money, instead of merely an attempt by gov't to encourage behavior they approve of. Acknowledging the fact that a soda tax is extremely regressive, they are also taxing diet soda since that's what wealthier people drink.

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Because the measure was cast as a revenue-raiser, the final deal is not exactly what public health experts might prefer. Council members, in negotiations, altered the spectrum of taxed products to hit budget targets. The measure that passed Wednesday taxes not just sugary drinks but also diet drinks. It exempts juice drinks from the tax as long as they have 50 percent juice, even if they also have added sugar. Minutes before the final vote at 8 p.m., the city’s finance department revealed that some soda-tax revenue would also be used to plug a budget shortfall.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:52 PM   #34
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IMHO, the biggest danger of the anti sugar movement is that it will be hijacked by Big Food and used to sell us more processed junk.

Just as the glutton and low fat became ends in themselves to the point that many people were eating glutton free food loaded with high arsenic contained in rice. And eating low fat foods loaded with sugar. Don't get me started on all the HIGH TRANSFAT margarine I ate because it was healthier than real butter. :-O

What is comes down to Is eating real food as close to how they came out of the ground or stood on the ground as is reasonable. And avoiding extremes including food marketed as "healthy" because of what they don't contain. Rubbish!


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Old 06-09-2016, 05:10 PM   #35
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I hope you're talking about gluten. Otherwise I might take offense.
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Old 06-09-2016, 05:25 PM   #36
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Grapes and apples processed into alcoholic beverages can develop a really high sugar content, yet I seldom see ER forum posters talking about cutting out those things. No, it's always about cutting out bread, potatoes, doughnuts, and limiting fruit, because of the terrible CARBS!
Well now, wait a minute here and let's not get carried away about doing away with the essentials of life. Cutting out bread, potatoes, doughnuts, etc. is one thing. Alcohol is quite another.

A nurse told me the four essential food groups were sugar, salt, fat, and alcohol.
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Old 06-09-2016, 06:44 PM   #37
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I've long suspected that a good deal of the popularity of low-carbohydrate diets is not that their fervent supporters really believe carbohydrates are all that bad. They just like fatty foods better. :

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Well now, wait a minute here and let's not get carried away about doing away with the essentials of life. Cutting out bread, potatoes, doughnuts, etc. is one thing. Alcohol is quite another.

A nurse told me the four essential food groups were sugar, salt, fat, and alcohol.
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Old 06-09-2016, 06:50 PM   #38
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Not to be argumentative. But if you eat an apple - sure you get fructose - but you also get the fiber/bulk etc that is in the apple. I've never been big on giving kids fruit juice - but instead giving them a piece of fruit.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:17 PM   #39
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Not to be argumentative. But if you eat an apple - sure you get fructose - but you also get the fiber/bulk etc that is in the apple. I've never been big on giving kids fruit juice - but instead giving them a piece of fruit.
That's correct. And various things in the apple including fiber and pectin act to slow down the release of the sugars into the bloodstream as well as it takes a lot longer to eat and apple than to swallow 5 lumps of sugar or whatever.

That's why apples aren't super high on the glycemic index. The index is 39 compared to 64 for sucrose (those lumps of sugar) compared to glucose = 100.

In other words, the glycemic load of an apple is quite low.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:40 PM   #40
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Not to be argumentative. But if you eat an apple - sure you get fructose - but you also get the fiber/bulk etc that is in the apple. ...
And a whole lot more!

Naturally Occurring Mutagens and Carcinogens Found in Foods and Beverages | Heartlander Magazine

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Acetaldehyde (apples, bread, coffee, tomatoes)—mutagen and potent rodent carcinogen

Benzaldehyde (apples, coffee, tomatoes)—rodent carcinogen

Caffeic acid (apples, carrots, celery, cherry tomatoes, coffee, grapes, lettuce, mangos, pears, potatoes)—rodent carcinogen

Estragole (apples, basil)—rodent carcinogen

Methyl eugenol (basil, cinnamon and nutmeg in apple and pumpkin pies)—rodent carcinogen

Quercetin glycosides (apples, onions, tea, tomatoes)—mutagens and rodent carcinogens

Safrole (nutmeg in apple and pumpkin pies, black pepper)—rodent carcinogen
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