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Old 02-21-2013, 08:05 AM   #21
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What makes you think the Eat to Live diet eliminates fats and protein? The emphasis is on eating high nutrient foods. The right mix of nuts, seeds, beans, fruits, and vegetables will give you all the fats and proteins you need in addition to all the other beneficial nutrients that come with them.
I disagree. Protein in animal products is (generally) more beneficial in a number of ways to protein found in plant products (that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat plants that contain protein......only that if you are not eating animal products (especially red meat), you are not getting the highest quality source of protein). Here is a link to ChrisKresser.com, and an excerpt from his article on nourishing your body:

9 Steps to Perfect Health Ė #2: Nourish Your Body

Know your protein

Protein is mostly found in animal products, seafood, nuts, legumes and grains. Legumes and grains have toxic compounds that can damage the gut. These toxins can be partially and in some cases completely neutralized by traditional preparation methods like soaking, sprouting and fermenting. But the vast majority of people in modern industrial societies donít do this and arenít willing to do it, so I generally recommend that people avoid them altogether.
As I explained above, nuts are often high in omega-6 LA, which we get far too much of as it is. So nuts should not constitute a significant source of protein. Walnuts are especially high. Just 100g of walnuts a day amounts to a whopping 266g of omega-6 per week. Keeping in mind that we want a 1:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3, youíd have to eat 34 pounds of salmon a week to achieve a balance. Good luck with that.
Poultry, especially dark meat with the skin on, can also be very high in omega-6 and should also be limited. For example, chicken skin has about 14 times more omega-6 than even grain-finished beef, and 10 times more than grain-finished pork.
That leaves the meat and milk (including butter, cream and cheese) of ruminant animals (beef & lamb), pork, and seafood as the most suitable sources of protein. Animal protein is easy to absorb, is not toxic and is rich in beneficial long-chain saturated fats and natural trans-fats like CLA. Seafood is similarly easy to absorb, and is the primary dietary source of long-chain omega-3 fats DHA & EPA, as well as micronutrients like vitamin D and selenium.
We donít need a pyramid for protein; you can simply follow the fat pyramid and youíll naturally get the right type and amount of protein.

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The same article has a section on fats, and why saturated fats (from animal products) are nothing to be afraid of, contrary to conventional diet teaching.



Also, the most nutrient-dense foods you can find are animal products (beef liver and eggs are the two most nutrient-dense). So if you are not eating animal products, you are certainly not eating the most nutrient-dense foods.


Don't get me wrong, I eat LOTS of vegetables, for their numerous health benefits. But any diet that advises eliminating or minimizing consumption of red meat and healthy fats found in animal products is misguided, in my view.

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Old 02-21-2013, 08:14 AM   #22
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Plants have protein. Just like animals. No different.

I am a convert. A little over a year ago i started watching all the movies on netflix. Forks Over Knives , Food INC, Gerson Miracle, etc

I'm probably one of the radicals. I'm vegan now and with that I'm prob 60-70% raw food. Google raw foodies and start watching videos.


I'm a different person now. Had 308 cholesterol, now 162 without pharmaceutical intervention. Lost 45 pounds without trying. my energy, mental acuity, and stamina are like im in college again.

but most importantly my body started changing. My IBS which I suffered from is GONE. The acid reflux - GONE. (Anyone with bad GERD will tell u it sux), my psoriasis - GONE. (The psoriasis started really going way when I really started juicing and eating more raw food), Acne - gone,

Depression, gone.

In fact food has had such a dramatic impact in my life that you just wouldn't believe it if u didnt know me or didn't see me.

I could write 5 pages more but u all get the point.

"Real" food changed my life.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:59 AM   #23
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Also, the most nutrient-dense foods you can find are animal products (beef liver and eggs are the two most nutrient-dense). So if you are not eating animal products, you are certainly not eating the most nutrient-dense foods.

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Old 02-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #24
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So watercress is 47 times as nutrient-dense as beef, eh?
Remarkable.

I know some people actually believe this, but it's way too far out on the fringe for me.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:13 AM   #25
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Humans are omnivores.

Hard to argue with eating more veggies, and to a lesser extent, fruits. But the anti-meat, pro-wheat slant reeks of political influence/correctness, and doesn't really seem to have much science to back it...
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:34 AM   #26
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Difficult to what the right approach since both seem to have documented results. I still think for weight loss, much of it is about calorie intake. I've tried both, lost weight on veggie/carbs/chicken+fish style, gained on the atkins/protein/fat/ style. Fat grams are more calorie dense than veggies. I'm still looking for the "right" answer.

BTW, if you google "eat to live pdf" you can find a pdf copy of this book.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:40 PM   #27
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I constantly remember his saying- eat GOMBS - Greens/Onions/Mushrooms/Beans/Berries and Seeds. I actually follow the Sonoma Diet plan as I find these low/no fat programs impossible to follow and frustratingly not satisfying. The Sonoma Diet is much more realistic for me and i can stick to it. I lost 30lbs on it and am @ my goal weight and have no meds @ 50.

I also pay for their online service and a coach. Which is very helpful.

Good luck and eat well!
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:44 AM   #28
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DH and I have been eating a plant-based low-fat no-meat no-dairy diet for a year or so. Our motivation was wanting the best quality of life when we were older. Neither one of us wanted to have a chronic disease and all the associated complications after retiring. DH lost 25 lbs. After about 6 weeks or so, we were surprised to find that we had lost the desire for any greasy-cheesy-meaty food. If you add enough spices, not hot peppers but spices like oregano, thyme, basil etc, the food is quite good. The one time we tried cheating with a scoop of preminum ice cream, my stomach started hurting and DH got heartburn. Never did that again. I enjoy smelling the neighbor's grill meat, but I have no desire to eat it.

The other surprise was how much better we felt after about two months. We felt so much better that there was no incentive to go back to way which we used to eat (which was pretty healthy). My dermititis almost completely cleared up. I never get those huge red welts when bitten by a mosquito. Neither of us has had any reason to go to the doctor since starting the ditet, so we haven't had any blood tests yet.

There are a number of different plant based diets. Caldwell Essylsten"s "plant perfect" diet is the strictest because it is designed to reverse heart disease. His son, Rip Essylsten, Engine-2 diet is a plant-strong diet which is designed for preventing heart disease. Neil Barnard had a plant-based diet for reversing type 2 diabetes. The OP has already talked about the Eat to Live diet. There are books and websites for each diet. Read the book 'The China Study" or watch the "Forks over Knives" video.

Plants contain protein. All livinig organisms have protein because protein is essential for life. Horeses, cows, elephants, beef cattle etc all eat a plant-based diet and aren't protein deficient. You won't be protein-deficient either. Neither of us have noticed any decrease in our endurance or strength when hiking or climbing mountains since starting the diet.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #29
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OP here. Thanks to everyone so far for your comments. It has been a great discussion. Obviously there is no right eating style that works for everyone. There are strong views for all the different variations of diets or eating lifestyles if you prefer out there, along with some supporting evidence behind them. You would think by this day and age we would know very conclusively what is best to eat but information gets squewed due to lobbying efforts, misrepresentation and the true root of all of evil; money.
I will cut back on my animal protein, and incease my fruit and vegetables greatly and see how tht works for me. I will give it some time and redjust as necessary. I will continue to read, with an open mind, new nutritional information as it comes along. Thanks again for all the great stories and comments and good health to all of you.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:01 PM   #30
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Thanks for starting this thread, twolfy. I just did a search on the "China Study" to see if there was a thread on it. I am reading it now.

I haven't eaten red meat or poultry since 1976. Initially I didn't eat seafood but started after 8 years of being vegetarian.

I am going to try the vegan/plant based diet for a while. I like to play with my diet periodically and see if I can feel any changes. Also, my total cholestrol is around 280 (down from 311) and I am curious if going vegan will bring it down.

It is amazing that after all these years doctors & scientists don't seem to know a thing about what makes for a healthy diet.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:18 AM   #31
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Yes, GF and I have been subscribing to his plan for ~ 3 years. As in a post I've made in another thread recently, total chol went from 220 to 156 within 4 months w/o meds, etc., etc. Once one sees the results, it's hard to get off this train Choices ...Choices
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:07 AM   #32
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One thing I noticed when discussing the food we eat is that all of the people who have had great success improving their health have several things in common:

1. They eat real food. Processed foods are eliminated or greatly reduced. Man made digestible products are out.

2. The 'bad' carbs are eliminated or reduced - sugar, highly refined flours, etc. Yes, even whole grain flour if it is highly processed into ultra fine dusty stuff.

3. They don't worry about calories and don't count calories. They don't have to.

4. If they eat fat, they eat natural fats - olive oil, nut oils, saturated fats in real food, etc.

5. Modest or no alcohol intake.

6. They don't eat 'diet' foods manufactured to exploit the diet trends. Low fat cheeses, low carb chocolate bars, veggie hot dogs, etc. (See #1)

7. They exercise.

8. They pick a plan for eating that works for them whether it is low-carb, low-fat, vegan, the caveman diet, or cooking out of their grandmother's cookbook.

Feel free to disagree or add something I may not have noticed.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:22 AM   #33
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1. They eat real food. Processed foods are eliminated or greatly reduced. Man made digestible products are out.
Good summary. As someone else said, stick with the outer perimeter of the supermarket, where all the real foods are, and avoid the inner aisles full of boxes.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #34
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One thing I noticed when discussing the food we eat is that all of the people who have had great success improving their health have several things in common:

1. They eat real food. Processed foods are eliminated or greatly reduced. Man made digestible products are out.

2. The 'bad' carbs are eliminated or reduced - sugar, highly refined flours, etc. Yes, even whole grain flour if it is highly processed into ultra fine dusty stuff.

3. They don't worry about calories and don't count calories. They don't have to.

4. If they eat fat, they eat natural fats - olive oil, nut oils, saturated fats in real food, etc.

5. Modest or no alcohol intake.

6. They don't eat 'diet' foods manufactured to exploit the diet trends. Low fat cheeses, low carb chocolate bars, veggie hot dogs, etc. (See #1)

7. They exercise.

8. They pick a plan for eating that works for them whether it is low-carb, low-fat, vegan, the caveman diet, or cooking out of their grandmother's cookbook.

Feel free to disagree or add something I may not have noticed.
Granted "whole grain" products have more micro nutrients and fiber than "white" bread, etc., but complex carbs are just simple sugars chained together, and are basically seen that way by the body...
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:27 PM   #35
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I've been trying different diets due to acid reflux and a friend recommended the "Wheat Belly Diet". it's basically lean meats and vegetables with a few servings of fruit per day, healthy nuts, and of course eliminating wheat. Wheat is replaced with almond flour and a few other wheat free flours. I'm losing a few pounds per week but more importantly, my acid reflux and heartburn has diminished. Oh, and since bud light is rice brewed, it's ok on this diet. Looking forward to dieting heavily this weekend.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:21 PM   #36
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My take

Here is my take. There have been so many studies say wine is bad. Wine is good. Meat is bad, and good. Vitamins are good, and they are bad.

Here I say just eat what you want. Anything and everything in moderation. If you refuse yourself something you like you only punish your body. So really don't eat 20 twinkies a day, but an occasional cup cake is fine. Eating ribeye is awesome but too much is bad. If you eat a hero sandwich, Italian Sandwich, sub, hoagie, torpedo, baguette or grinder eat it slowly and by the time you get towards the end you will find you are getting full. Then just eat what stuffing is left and leave some of the bread. It will save you some calories.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:51 PM   #37
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Here is my take. There have been so many studies say wine is bad. Wine is good. Meat is bad, and good. Vitamins are good, and they are bad.

Here I say just eat what you want. Anything and everything in moderation. If you refuse yourself something you like you only punish your body. So really don't eat 20 twinkies a day, but an occasional cup cake is fine. Eating ribeye is awesome but too much is bad. If you eat a hero sandwich, Italian Sandwich, sub, hoagie, torpedo, baguette or grinder eat it slowly and by the time you get towards the end you will find you are getting full. Then just eat what stuffing is left and leave some of the bread. It will save you some calories.
What about if I want to have say a Po'Boy?
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:53 PM   #38
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What about if I want to have say a Po'Boy?
You would be a poor boy. They cost an arm and a leg.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:32 PM   #39
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Still working throughthis new eating style and so far so good. Eating lots more fruits and veggies and have cut back on dairy and meat. Havent eliminated them but very little. Something I did notice though was that every night where I ate a very large salad with various greens (kale, spinach, romaine and spring greens along with red peppers, brocolli, nuts, and apples that I was never hungry after dinner and not really even hungry the next morning.this was just a salad only for dinner, nothing else. Now tonight we were finishing up some items still in the frig so had left over pork loin with potatoes and a big serving of brocolli,and peppers. After a couple of hours I'm now hungry. I didnt over eat but had what I felt was enough, so I really think the volume of the other dinners helped with me being full longer due to the volume as well as maybe that there were no simple carbs like there were in tonights dinner with the white potatoes. Anyway, already have lost a few pounds and will be sticking pretty strongly to this new way of eating for me and my wife. Time for an apple!
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