Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-26-2017, 07:38 PM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 381
Commercially-grown organic produce can have pesticides used on them - just "organic" ones. Usually more poisonous than the engineered pesticides used by non-organic growers. Don't get me started on the GMO hysteria - anti-GMO people are perfectly happy to eat lots of products whose seeds have been genetically modified with chemicals or radiation (grapefruit or seedless watermelon, anyone?)

Sure, one can grow organic without pesticides - I have friends who run a small farm that way. But nearly everything you buy in stores with an organic label has had pesticides used on it, and the residues are often higher than from comparable non-organic produce. Not that it matters, as the levels in either case are so low as to be harmless. What you really should worry about is bacterial contamination.
__________________

__________________
Steve
jonat is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-26-2017, 07:54 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 7,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Locally grown produce in season is very likely to be better than commercial stuff in the retail grocery store.

Not because it is 'organic', but because it might be fresher, picked at the peak, and it may be from varieties that are bred for taste over shipping/keeping qualities.
We're down in SWFL for the winter, and not too far away from Plant City, where 3/4 of the strawberries sold in the US (in winter) are grown. We've got a little guy down the street with a fruit & veggie stand, and he has the most incredible strawberries we've ever eaten. It turns out he gets the previous day's Plant City strawberries that were too ripe to ship, but they are perfect for local consumption. It doesn't have anything to do with organic or not, or anything except being picked at the perfect time.

We also have a major tomato processing plant nearby. I-75 is a few miles away, and right on the corner where the trucks come off the interstate there are always a bunch of green tomatoes that fall out of the truck when they make the turn off the ramp. The amazing part is that very few of them break when they fall, and I've come to realize why these mass produced tomatoes are so tasteless. They take the to the plant and gas them with (I think) ethylene glycol to turn them red, but that's all they are is red. Still no real flavor. On the other hand, the vine ripened tomatoes I buy in the grocery store are significantly tastier. The negative part of this type of tomato is that sometimes the seeds inside have started sprouting. It looks like a bunch of worms, not very appetizing. But the tomatoes are still good, so I just remove the seeds/sprouts and eat the fairly tasty tomatoes. Still not as good as the ones in my garden, but not bad.

To me the defining characteristic of good fruit/veggies isn't organic or not, it's naturally ripened or not.
__________________

__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 08:18 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,541
Good article on why store bought tomatoes don't taste that good:

"The demise of the tomato’s flavor started about seventy years ago when growers noticed that some tomatoes turned red from green uniformly when they ripened. Back then, most tomatoes had shoulders—a raised area near the depression where the tomato attaches to the stem—that turned red slower than the rest of the tomato. The green shoulders made it difficult for farmers to tell when the tomato was ready to harvest, and shoppers did not like the look of them either.

So when the uniformly colored tomatoes randomly appeared, tomato breeders realized its potential. The*effect that caused the green shoulders to disappear was due to a random genetic mutation, which was dubbed the “uniform ripening” trait. Farmers began selecting seeds from the uniformly red tomatoes and crossing them with other uniformly red tomatoes to create the visually perfect commercial tomatoes that we have today.

Because of the rudimentary understanding of genetics at that time, neither farmers nor researchers knew that the “uniform ripening” trait came with a trade off; it also disabled a gene in a tomato that regulates chlorophyll. Ann Powell, a plant scientist at the University of California, Davis, and her research group*reported in a 2012 Science article that the chlorophyll concentrated in the green shoulders also increased the level of flavor-creating sugars for tomatoes. When the tomatoes’ green shoulders were bred out, so were the chlorophyll and extra sugars—and the tomato’s flavor. And this mutation was ubiquitous; when Powell and her colleagues examined 25 commercial tomato varieties from all over the world, they found the uniform ripening flavor reducing mutation in all of them."

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.o...never-eat-one/
Music Lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 08:28 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,298
I avoid 'organic'. It is more expensive and of no proven benefit. Farming methods would not likely be sustainable to feed large populations. More Madison Ave as far as I'm concerned. Organic, gluten-free, low bad fat, high good fat, no sugar, low sugar, no bad sugar, protein enriched, blah, blah, blah...

I do have some vices. One of which is 'heritage' foods which include what one local market calls 'ugly tomatoes'. Music lover refers to them above and they are delicious!
6miths is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 09:29 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 23,548
I buy organic. Usually looks better, tastes better. Sometimes tastes way better.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 09:50 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Fedup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 4,032
I hate to tell you but those ugly tomatoes taste bland. I grow Brandywine tomatoes and was told they were the best tasting. YMMV
Fedup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 10:00 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,298
Brandywine is the heirloom tomato that my farm market refers to as the 'ugly tomato'. And it is compared to anything at the supermarket. And I agree, does taste wonderful.
6miths is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 10:38 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 6,800
How about Heirloom tomatoes for you conniseurs?
Lsbcal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 10:50 PM   #29
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 873
I don't know, you buy seeds at the store, you grow them, you don't spray them with chemicals and if you get bugs, you find natural things to get rid of them.. done.. been doing it that way for 45 years, why change now.

I have been to some organic farms, where they just put nets over everything to keep out the pests, it costs for the labor and material, which is what you are paying extra for.

The real value can be in how things are grown..ie lots of good organic farms do crop rotation and cover crops, giving back nutrients to the soil naturally which in turn leaves better nutrients in the food. The CSA I got my stuff from, just tastes better, period.

I assume its healthier because it does taste better. When your constantly robbing the soil of nutrients, you get bland, disguesting nutrient free food back. Tomatoes and Peaches are the two easiest examples... because you take a tomatoe off the vine in your garden and they taste nothing like the ones in the store, that have zero flavor half the time, same with peaches.
karen1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 10:53 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 26,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
We're down in SWFL for the winter, and not too far away from Plant City, where 3/4 of the strawberries sold in the US (in winter) are grown. We've got a little guy down the street with a fruit & veggie stand, and he has the most incredible strawberries we've ever eaten. It turns out he gets the previous day's Plant City strawberries that were too ripe to ship, but they are perfect for local consumption. It doesn't have anything to do with organic or not, or anything except being picked at the perfect time...
Some years ago, driving down Hwy 1 down the CA coast, we ran across a strawberry field with a fruit stand by the side of the road. Bought and ate some best strawberries that I ever had, and have not eaten since. So, we bought some more to take home. They turned to mush a day later.

Later, looked at the map and found that this was near Lompoc where they have a Strawberry Festival every year.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 11:10 PM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
RobbieB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central CA
Posts: 4,791
I buy organic from time to time and 'hormone & antibiotic" free meat too.

Sometimes it's really good (better) than the commercial stuff and sometimes it's not.

I mostly go by how it looks and feels.

I don't care how much it costs, I want to try it and see for myself. I want to see if it tastes better. That's the only thing that really matters to me, taste -
__________________
Retired at 59 in 2014. Should have done it sooner but I worried too much.
RobbieB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 11:16 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Fedup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 4,032
We have both organic strawberries and non organic strawberries nearby farms. The organic strawberries are uneven size, deeper taste and sweet. The non organic strawberries are more perfect size and nice but not as deep and sweet. They are both nice, but if I can't get organic, I get the non organic, which has longer season and cheaper. Strawberry is really the only fruit that matters. Porous skin.
Fedup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 01:19 AM   #33
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliforniaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 880
I usually skip the organic produce because it costs more and offers no health benefit. And at least in my area the non-organic often is fresher and better quality, but I will buy organic when it looks better. Always has seemed strange to me when people I know who would not buy anything but organic produce, puff away on their cigarettes, drink beer, and consume sweets. A doctor friend of mine once told me all food is toxic, if you want to be healthier eat less. Probably a lot more truth in that than we would like to admit.
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
CaliforniaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 06:39 AM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
We're down in SWFL for the winter, and not too far away from Plant City, where 3/4 of the strawberries sold in the US (in winter) are grown. We've got a little guy down the street with a fruit & veggie stand, and he has the most incredible strawberries we've ever eaten. It turns out he gets the previous day's Plant City strawberries that were too ripe to ship, but they are perfect for local consumption. It doesn't have anything to do with organic or not, or anything except being picked at the perfect time.

We also have a major tomato processing plant nearby. I-75 is a few miles away, and right on the corner where the trucks come off the interstate there are always a bunch of green tomatoes that fall out of the truck when they make the turn off the ramp. The amazing part is that very few of them break when they fall, and I've come to realize why these mass produced tomatoes are so tasteless. They take the to the plant and gas them with (I think) ethylene glycol to turn them red, but that's all they are is red. Still no real flavor. On the other hand, the vine ripened tomatoes I buy in the grocery store are significantly tastier. The negative part of this type of tomato is that sometimes the seeds inside have started sprouting. It looks like a bunch of worms, not very appetizing. But the tomatoes are still good, so I just remove the seeds/sprouts and eat the fairly tasty tomatoes. Still not as good as the ones in my garden, but not bad.

To me the defining characteristic of good fruit/veggies isn't organic or not, it's naturally ripened or not.
When my folks lived in SW Florida I was riding with my dad when I saw a truck filled with "Granny Smith Apples"...I told my dad, "I didn't know they grew apples down here", he said "those aren't apples, those are the tomatoes you will be buying up north next week"...
HadEnuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 06:44 AM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Grapetown
Posts: 2,024
People are so confused with "organic", as I have been gardening organic for 35 years. Organic fertilizers can be manures, blood and bone meals, dried blood, compost, and tilled under clovers and grains. Non-organic are the processed fertilizers from ammonia, natural gas, petroleum and other chemicals. The biggest difference I see is that the organics, while lower in PNK levels, break down slower. The non organics, have higher levels, and are much more water soluble, and tend to wash away. Organic pesticides can be ground up plants (pyrethins), ground up rocks (limestone, sulpur, copper and diatomaceous earth) ground up bugs (Bt), oil sprays and live bugs( lady bugs, nematodes). Non-organics are just manufactured chemicals. Rotation of crops in the garden and companion planting helps a lot, too.

All that being said, I garden organic because I have access to horse manure and I compost, not because of any health concerns. I do believe that if you have healthy vigorous plants, the use of organic or non-organic pesticides can be limited.

Your money is in the dirt, and your plants are merely the divvies and interest.
Winemaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:06 AM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 9,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Too bad George Carlin isn't around. He'd have a great routine with free-range, pasture raised, happy cows, etc.

Consumer Report published this a while back, titled "From Crop to Table, Pesticide Use in Produce". http://www.consumerreports.org/conte...rch%202015.pdf

It identifies different pesticides in use that affect the US food supply and suggests some be avoided.
I would love to see that. The conflicting claims on organic and GMO's are enough to discourage anyone from deciding what's up and what's down. I read everything I can on the subject but lose the details so all I can go by is my subjective assessment of where the bulk of the evidence points (sort of a half-assed self organized meta analysis). So far my conclusion is that organic doesn't offer much and GMOs are fine but I could be way off the mark. Like Fedup, I buy organic when other stuff isn't available. I also have some favorite local organic producers I buy from at the weekend farmer's market. My liberal guilt leads me to buy cage-free chickens but I suspect the reality is they are as poorly treated as any other chickens. The pigs bother me even more but I have to have my bacon and pork sausage. I would go vegan if I could stand vegetables, but I can't. Of course. all of this angst is height of western privilege. GMOs and man made pesticides are essential to feeding the rest of the world.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:36 AM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
zinger1457's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,268
It's hard for me to understand how a place like 'Whole Foods' can survive, I get price shock every time I walk in one (luckily we don't have one locally). Prices for vegetables and fruits are up to 3X the price I usually pay at my local grocer. Their prices for meats, poultry, fish are just as bad if not worse.
zinger1457 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:42 AM   #38
Moderator
samclem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,380
Does anybody actually verify that the organic stuff sold at the "farmers market" is organic and raised by the guy at the booth? I mean, the authentic looking motley "organic" produce could be the stuff he buys at a discount from the same wholesaler who sells to WalMart. Peel off the labels and get a quick doubling of the price, and none of that dirty work to actually raise the stuff.

Of course, being composed of carbon-based molecules/compounds, every fruit and vegetable is truly organic.
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:53 AM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
MRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Does anybody actually verify that the organic stuff sold at the "farmers market" is organic and raised by the guy at the booth? I mean, the authentic looking motley "organic" produce could be the stuff he buys at a discount from the same wholesaler who sells to WalMart. Peel off the labels and get a quick doubling of the price, and none of that dirty work to actually raise the stuff.

Of course, being composed of carbon-based molecules/compounds, every fruit and vegetable is truly organic.
I have seen roadside stands where it appeared that they were reselling commercial produce. Didn't bother stopping. I always talk to the folks who are selling about where they raised or bought the vegetables. I thought I busted one fellow, he said he'd bought it in Versailles MO. He pronounced Versailles wrong! Turns out he was new to the state.
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 09:28 AM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,687
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
I buy organic. Usually looks better, tastes better. Sometimes tastes way better.
I'd love to see blind taste tests on that. Don't buy.
__________________

gerntz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Organic Foods imoldernu Health and Early Retirement 52 03-31-2014 08:58 AM
The new Dirty Dozen: 12 foods to eat organic and avoid pesticide residue tmm99 Other topics 3 06-23-2010 04:46 PM
Ideas for healthier eats figner Health and Early Retirement 25 08-31-2007 07:00 AM
Did ER or even just plain R make you healthier? Outtahere Other topics 8 09-30-2005 08:44 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:19 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.