Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-22-2014, 09:03 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
I am not on any medicine nor prescribed any, but when I was young I wore out that amoxicillin and penicillin. I read this week they have the studies to prove Lipitor extends life again. I start to think what the heck maybe I should take a low dose as my doc has been preaching using it for 10 years. Then I read the comments section and they just light it up over how the stuff has ruined their life. If numbers dictated it, I would try it, but won't before it is needed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-22-2014, 09:04 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
Next time I see my doctor, I'm thinking of asking him if I should discontinue, as I really don't like taking the same thing every day unless there's a very good reason.
Based on the report released this week that sounds like a very good idea.

Low-Dose Aspirin Fails in Primary Prevention
__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 09:14 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,422
I'm considering taking a break from my statin. I was on Zocor, but the doc switched me to Lipitor (actually generics for both) because I'm diabetic and the Zocor is supposed to raise blood sugar. But I've been experiencing serious muscle aches and some weakness since I switched. LDL is 84, HDL is 48, so I think I can quit for a couple of months to see if the muscle issues go away. I'm between doctor visits, so I think I'll deliver it as a fait accompli next trip. It will also be interesting see what the numbers are without the statin.

I would never consider doing this with my diabetes or BP meds, but I'm not convinced about the efficacy of statins.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 09:23 PM   #24
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Believe it or not, as we get older our bodies can change. Sometimes stuff even fails.

I take a couple of pills every day. It beats the alternative.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 09:33 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,563
I was on a beta blocker (atenolol) for about 15 years. My resting heart rate was always 55.

Started feeling bad for too many weeks. Finally drove myself to the ER(stupid I know). Well the DRs. there didn't think my heart rate of ~35 was condusive for life. Point is my body changed it's reaction to the medication over a long time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
__________________
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 09:40 PM   #26
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 393
I'm not, DW is, good idea, who knows, not me or her.
<sarc-on>

However, if my doc suggested I should be, I might be, but unlikely. After all, (s)he is just a dupe of "big pharma".

It's good to see that a large percentage of the population here knows more than someone with an MD. Education is overrated. I'd rather see a chiropractor or naturopath than a real doctor if I felt bad. But, maybe, a faith healer might be smarter.

I might even go to a quack if it made me feel better, especially if it was for my kid and not me : Little scientific, nothing native, about U.S. treatment taken by cancer-stricken aboriginal girls | National Post

<sarc-off>.
__________________
Rick_Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 09:42 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Nodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Cavalier
Posts: 2,317
I am on one prescription for high blood pressure and I take it every day. Have no interest in risking more serious problems.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." Pogo Possum (Walt Kelly)
Nodak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 09:52 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,471
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireAge50 View Post
I am planning to not take all the prescription drugs doctors prescribe.

Why should I need them in older ages if I never needed them before?
I find your statement a little cryptic and probably not well thought out. That's ok. We all blurt out things that we haven't completely thought through. My food for thought on the subject:

1. The past does not predict the future when it comes to health. We all get old, unless we are unfortunate enough to die young. Many illnesses occur when your body gets older. Cardiovascular disease for one. Cancer. Type 2 diabetes. Hypertension. None of these are particularly common in 20 year olds. Many of these illnesses are manageable and with medications and some also with lifestyle changes.

2. Your statement suggests that you believe you know more about illness than your doctor. As a physician, I am still in awe of the knowledge and skills of us medical folks. I read more medical materials now, one month away from full retirement, than I did in med school. The knowledge base has increased exponentially. I am still studying to keep my board certification current, in case I want to volunteer or work part time if I get bored in retirement. I'm intrigued with what you think you know that your doctor doesn't.

3. If you don't trust your doctor, and you question his/her judgement, then you need a new doctor.

4. If you don't take prescribed meds without discussing and collaborating with your doctor, your doctor has every right to dismiss you from his/her practice for non-compliance. There is always room to discuss with your doctor why a med is prescribed, the risks and the benefits. But to refuse to take them without discussion doesn't make much sense.

I don't understand why you would do this to yourself. An example: If you have diabetes that cannot be controlled with diet you will die a lot earlier if you stop your meds, often within days to weeks. In 1993 I noticed my dad drinking a ton of liquid and going to the bathroom at a family gathering. I told him I was sure he had just developed diabetes. He went to the doctor within 24 hrs and started meds right away, as well as a low glycemic index diet. He died in 2009 with his blood glucose in perfect control, from other causes at age 80. We had a friend who developed Type 2 diabetes a year ago, in his early 40s. He did not follow the diet and probably did not take his meds regularly. He died 4 months later from complications of diabetes.

You may want to rethink your plan, IMO. Everyone has the right to do stupid things, but no one has protection from the consequences of their own stupidity. You and your loved ones would be the ones harmed by such a choice.
__________________
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 10:04 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,862
I never needed drugs to pee before, but I do now. Not taking them would be very uncomfortable.
__________________
Animorph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 05:32 AM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
kitesurfer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: jax
Posts: 229
funny how no one has mentioned that many people have replaced all their prescription drugs with medical cannabis. it's natural with zero side effects.
__________________
kitesurfer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 05:51 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitesurfer2 View Post
funny how no one has mentioned that many people have replaced all their prescription drugs with medical cannabis. it's natural with zero side effects.
DW just got her medical marijuana card after reading anecdotal reports that it helps restless leg syndrome (of course, there are anecdotal reports that it helps everything). Anyway, she took a couple of hits the other night and slept for 10 hours. Placebo? Who cares? I tried a few tokes out of curiosity. (Yeah, yeah, tsk tsk: but it's only a misdemeanor here and we just voted to make it legal.) Pretty good, but the reports of how the new stuff is 10x more potent than it was in our youth are vastly overstated.

Edit: there are too side effects - they prompt most of the interest.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 06:00 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
I'm considering taking a break from my statin. I was on Zocor, but the doc switched me to Lipitor (actually generics for both) because I'm diabetic and the Zocor is supposed to raise blood sugar. But I've been experiencing serious muscle aches and some weakness since I switched. LDL is 84, HDL is 48, so I think I can quit for a couple of months to see if the muscle issues go away. I'm between doctor visits, so I think I'll deliver it as a fait accompli next trip. It will also be interesting see what the numbers are without the statin.

I would never consider doing this with my diabetes or BP meds, but I'm not convinced about the efficacy of statins.
If you spend a bit of time reading the literature on the statins you will not hesitate to drop them. Muscle pain is a well known side effect and the benefits on heart disease and overall mortality are borderline at best. What statins do very effectively is change numbers - but that doesn't translate to health. If you are actually worried about numbers try cutting your carbs way down. If you read the literature on that (or just skim some of the threads here) you will see that LCHF can fairly reliably be counted on to significantly lower triglicerides and raise HDL. My triglycerides went from 137 to 52 and HDL from 67 to 93. Those early numbers are on statins, the later numbers off statins.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 06:42 AM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Peoria
Posts: 325
The late, great Robin Williams.

__________________
candrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 09:02 AM   #34
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitesurfer2 View Post
funny how no one has mentioned that many people have replaced all their prescription drugs with medical cannabis. it's natural with zero side effects.
I bet it has a side affect on the grocery bill.

I never heard that medical cannabis cures all ailments so could replace all prescription drugs, but I guess someone using marijuana wouldn't really care
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 10:02 AM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,714
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
I'm considering taking a break from my statin. I was on Zocor, but the doc switched me to Lipitor (actually generics for both) because I'm diabetic and the Zocor is supposed to raise blood sugar. But I've been experiencing serious muscle aches and some weakness since I switched. LDL is 84, HDL is 48, so I think I can quit for a couple of months to see if the muscle issues go away. I'm between doctor visits, so I think I'll deliver it as a fait accompli next trip. It will also be interesting see what the numbers are without the statin...
When I first started on Lipitor, I had no muscle problems. But severe aches developed with intense exercise several years later. I stopped cold turkey! A year later my total cholesterol was high but my ratio is great. So far so good.

I am taking meds for hypertension and COPD now. But I went for 8 years without anything.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 10:41 AM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
For the last ten years or so have not taken any prescription drugs, except on very short occasions for specific problem like ear infection.

In the past I posted about my survival in spite of several prescribed drugs. There were some drugs that saved my life. Some you win some you loose.

I have learned not to trust doctors implicitly, I value their diagnostic skills, their tratment plans I do take with a large grain of salt, and do extensive resarch on benefit/detriment ratios. I take the diagnosis as a good staring point, if in doubt I would go for and pay for a second opinion. Insurance coverage be damned. If something would develop as really serious go for third opinion as well.

I am sure I consume some drugs that are in beef or other critters and lately in the unlabeled genetically modified crops. Like antibiotics that fed to animals or for example the corn sold today is vastly different thing from a hundred years ago.

Does High Fructose Corn Syrup count as a drug? That stuff iis in nearly every processed food, like Ketcsup, at the diner this morning just happened to look at the label.

As for the OP, just be sure you understand what is important and when.

To a good degree doctors rely on research by the various medical/drug industries for deciding on the value of medications treatment plans. Following are some observations regarding the validity of research results:

"...... favourite quotes by Drummond Rennie, at the time the Deputy Editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association.: ‘There seems to be no study too fragmented, no hypothesis too trivial, no literature citation too biased or too egotistical, no design too warped, no methodology too bungled, no presentation of results too inaccurate, too obscure, and too contradictory, no analysis too selfserving, no argument too circular, no conclusions too trifling or too unjustified, and no grammar and syntax too offensive for a paper to end up in print.’


A view supported from a slightly different angle by Dr Marcia Agnell, who was the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine for two decades. This was, and remains, the single most powerful and influential medical journal in the world. At least it is, when it comes to citations and impact factor:
“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.” Dr Marcia Agnell "



Dr. Malcolm Kendrick | Scottish doctor and author of 'The Great Cholesterol Con'

Edit add: IMHO a doctor's greatest value, as in all skilled craft, is in diagnostic skill.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 10:52 AM   #37
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: seattle
Posts: 643
And don't forget John Ioannidis:

"There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of true to no relationships among the relationships probed in each scientific field. In this framework, a research finding is less likely to be true when the studies conducted in a field are smaller; when effect sizes are smaller; when there is a greater number and lesser preselection of tested relationships; where there is greater flexibility in designs, definitions, outcomes, and analytical modes; when there is greater financial and other interest and prejudice; and when more teams are involved in a scientific field in chase of statistical significance. Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias. In this essay, I discuss the implications of these problems for the conduct and interpretation of research."


PLOS Medicine: Why Most Published Research Findings Are False
__________________
bld999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 11:01 AM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
Funny, the Ioannidis observation, from my days of working with earth scientists 30 plus years ago, Seismologists, Geologists etc. the accurate mesure of current bias was paramount. There is a very current analogy in climate research, but let me not go off on a tangent.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 11:24 AM   #39
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
I find your statement a little cryptic and probably not well thought out. That's ok. We all blurt out things that we haven't completely thought through. My food for thought on the subject:

1. The past does not predict the future when it comes to health. We all get old, unless we are unfortunate enough to die young. Many illnesses occur when your body gets older. Cardiovascular disease for one. Cancer. Type 2 diabetes. Hypertension. None of these are particularly common in 20 year olds. Many of these illnesses are manageable and with medications and some also with lifestyle changes.

2. Your statement suggests that you believe you know more about illness than your doctor. As a physician, I am still in awe of the knowledge and skills of us medical folks. I read more medical materials now, one month away from full retirement, than I did in med school. The knowledge base has increased exponentially. I am still studying to keep my board certification current, in case I want to volunteer or work part time if I get bored in retirement. I'm intrigued with what you think you know that your doctor doesn't.

3. If you don't trust your doctor, and you question his/her judgement, then you need a new doctor.

4. If you don't take prescribed meds without discussing and collaborating with your doctor, your doctor has every right to dismiss you from his/her practice for non-compliance. There is always room to discuss with your doctor why a med is prescribed, the risks and the benefits. But to refuse to take them without discussion doesn't make much sense.

I don't understand why you would do this to yourself. An example: If you have diabetes that cannot be controlled with diet you will die a lot earlier if you stop your meds, often within days to weeks. In 1993 I noticed my dad drinking a ton of liquid and going to the bathroom at a family gathering. I told him I was sure he had just developed diabetes. He went to the doctor within 24 hrs and started meds right away, as well as a low glycemic index diet. He died in 2009 with his blood glucose in perfect control, from other causes at age 80. We had a friend who developed Type 2 diabetes a year ago, in his early 40s. He did not follow the diet and probably did not take his meds regularly. He died 4 months later from complications of diabetes.

You may want to rethink your plan, IMO. Everyone has the right to do stupid things, but no one has protection from the consequences of their own stupidity. You and your loved ones would be the ones harmed by such a choice.
Wow, great post!! I would add to it but I think you have covered everything I would have said, and then some.

Basically, hiding our heads in the sand doesn't keep us from growing older and eventually dying. In order to achieve a good quality of life in old age we need to fight the health issues and negative effects of aging head on! IMO seeing a good and competent doctor regularly and following his instructions in every detail is a no-brainer as we get older.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 11:27 AM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustic23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 3,624
If someone sees something on tv, and thinks, I think I'll tell the Doc I would like to try that, then I would agree. However, if I pay to go to my Doctor, he runs test, and then says, 'I think we should start your on XXX' I am going to take it. I may seek a second opinion, but I will take the drug while I do.

I pay people for their expertise, to then ignore it, or say 'I am smarter, and I don't agree' just doesn't make since to me.
__________________

__________________
If it is after 5:00 when I post I reserve the right to disavow anything I posted.
Rustic23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cholesterol Drugs - what they're not telling you... HawkeyeNFO Health and Early Retirement 72 07-17-2013 09:29 PM
What do you think of America's "war on drugs" ? Bram Other topics 43 03-28-2008 02:32 PM
Prescription drugs Martha Other topics 4 11-01-2005 11:27 AM
Prescription Drugs from Canada fln FIRE and Money 6 01-30-2005 05:07 PM
Sex, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll haha Life after FIRE 1 04-04-2004 08:42 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:18 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.