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Old 12-18-2009, 06:30 PM   #41
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I didn't get the good looking nurse this time and my BP was 117/77.

I need to consider the device Ha Ha mentioned cause I run 130's/80's WITH meds - according to my Wal Mart wrist meter.

heh heh heh - and the dang chloresterol is running high also. .
UncleMick, my doctor just put me on BP meds for the first time in September, and at my checkup today it was just 118/80. He's not that good looking, I guess! Anyway, I didn't think the (cheap, generic) meds were strong enough to do anything because I wasn't having any side effects at all, but I am happy to say that I was wrong.
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Old 12-18-2009, 06:37 PM   #42
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I agree it is expensive, but it has worked well for me. If various attempts to simulate this device work, you have saved money. For me it wasn't worth it. I was already excercising, I am normal weight, and I was taking lisinopril.

I realize many of you would decide differently.

I started using it in mid-August, was getting strong results by beginning of October, and these results as I posted above have continued. $400 to really lower my stroke risk is a bargaint to me. A stroke is right ahead of having my johnson fall off in the top 5 bummers.

It isn't much fun to do. I try to get it out of the way before I go outside in the morning.

Ha
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Old 12-18-2009, 06:43 PM   #43
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I started using it in mid-August, was getting strong results by beginning of October, and these results as I posted above have continued. $400 to really lower my stroke risk is a bargaint to me. A stroke is right ahead of having my johnson fall off in the top 5 bummers.

It isn't much fun to do. I try to get it out of the way before I go outside in the morning.

Ha
You are so right - - $400 to really lower your stroke risk is a huge bargain. Strokes are beyond awful, as anyone who knows a stroke victim knows. I do, my brother.

Guess I don't have to worry about having that fall off (N/A, dontcha know), but stroke is right up there in the list of top 5 worst bummers.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:31 PM   #44
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Anyway, I didn't think the (cheap, generic) meds were strong enough to do anything because I wasn't having any side effects at all
You are saying that the drug probably isn't helping because you don't have any side effects? You feel that side-effects are a necessary evil for drugs that work well?

Drugs are designed to work and not cause side-effects and maybe 90%+ do just that (other than the obvious exceptions like chemo).

BTW: the vast majority of generics are indistinguishable from the fancy brand names, and much, much cheaper. I wouldn't worry about that a bit (though there are a handful of exceptions.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:53 PM   #45
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Rich, no, I think you completely misunderstood that comment of mine, which was just a facetious aside to UncleMick. Over the years, I have skimmed through a few casual, non-technical articles that related non-compliance with high BP medication regimens in particular to the frequency of side effects with certain high BP meds. Interesting - - I gather from your post that side effects and resulting problems with non-compliance are no more of an issue with common high BP meds than they are any other meds. The things we learn on this board.

And no, my only worry about generics is that I will completely alienate my doctor one day, due to all my nagging him over the years to change my prescriptions to generics!
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Old 12-19-2009, 12:09 AM   #46
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I read about some of the side effects, or supposed side effects, of the bp meds my Doc put me on, and I was a bit concerned at first. But now, after being on them for almost 2 years, with no adverse side effects, I've come to the conclusion that, indeed, some folks may be adversely affected in some way, shape, or form...but I'm not! So I'm one very happy camper with very acceptable bp readings.....last week it was 120/70....just a few points above my 'norm', but probably 'cause I did a bit of snow removal just before going to my appointment. (my 'norm' is about 114/67 +/-)
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Old 12-19-2009, 12:35 AM   #47
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I read about some of the side effects, or supposed side effects, of the bp meds my Doc put me on, and I was a bit concerned at first. But now, after being on them for almost 2 years, with no adverse side effects, I've come to the conclusion that, indeed, some folks may be adversely affected in some way, shape, or form...but I'm not! So I'm one very happy camper with very acceptable bp readings.....last week it was 120/70....just a few points above my 'norm', but probably 'cause I did a bit of snow removal just before going to my appointment. (my 'norm' is about 114/67 +/-)
My BP meds don't adversely affect me either, apparently. Hey, those are good BP readings, Goonie! Especially after shoveling snow. I usually try to sit still and think very calm thoughts before having my BP taken.

I told my doctor that stress reduction due to having retired was probably helping, too. I'm not sure if he believed that, but I do.
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Old 12-19-2009, 11:04 PM   #48
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I started using it in mid-August, was getting strong results by beginning of October, and these results as I posted above have continued. $400 to really lower my stroke risk is a bargaint to me. A stroke is right ahead of having my johnson fall off in the top 5 bummers.
I'd definitely agree with that! I don't yet have hypertension, but from my family medical history I almost certainly will develop it. That gives me a certain interest in this, and is why I'm trying my little science experiment with isometrics and the hand grip.

I'm pretty sure that in the next 2-3 years I'll be on one of the blood pressure medications, in spite of exercise, low sodium diet, and whatnot. That's why I'm already doing daily BP monitoring. As you said, lowering stroke risk is worth the effort.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:45 PM   #49
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Just got my Zona Plus today. My BP is really really high these days, although maybe being sick (nasty cold/chest thing) has something to do with it. I told my doctor it had gone up since I went on the new med, but she wants me to keep taking it. I'm going to, but I'm also going to do the Zona Plus thing. I'm hoping it will pan out and I'll be able to cut back/out the medication. The process is pretty easy for me, and only 12 minutes/day. I'll let y'all know how it's working out for me in 5-8 weeks, which is how long they say it should take to see any improvements.
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:17 AM   #50
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I hope Zona works out really well for you Harley. I have used it very regularly for six months, and it has made a very large difference for me. I was on lisinopril, which I still take and likely will continue as it seems to have to discernable side effects and I really don't want to go back to being scared about just how high my BP might be when I checked it.

Lately my BP is often under 110 systolic, and right around 70 diastolic.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:04 AM   #51
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A note on white-coat hypertension: I read something that said trying to relax and get a lower blood pressure reading can actually result in a higher reading.

Here's an Amazon review of the Zona that shows how it may raise your blood pressure:

zona.jpg
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:33 AM   #52
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Thanks, Al!

I actually do believe that stress is a large factor in high BP, and there's nothing that causes stress more than dealing with anybody's customer service department. Buy the product and hope nothing goes wrong, that's my theory.
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:43 PM   #53
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This dispersion in results makes me very wary about the recent health reform fad of "don't fund what doesn't work?" Doesn't work for whom? Obviously, for some of the reviewers it did nothing, for some others and me and helped a lot. This sounds like individual differences.

As far as the complaints about stickiness (notchiness?) or grip problems (other than the arthritis which is self expanatory) it really appears to be a solid little machine to me.

About customer service complaints I can only say that I have called several times, to ask little questions about what score to try for etc, and they have always been helpful.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:05 PM   #54
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This dispersion in results makes me very wary about the recent health reform fad of "don't fund what doesn't work?" Doesn't work for whom? Obviously, for some of the reviewers it did nothing, for some others and me and helped a lot. This sounds like individual differences.
Yes, they do sound like individual differences, because they are. But in the end, you either believe in quality evidence (it's not all high quality to be sure) or you don't.

Consider a disease with two treatments. The first treatment cures 80% of those who take the pill and fails to cure 20%. The indistinguishable placebo group noted a cure rate of 70%, with the other 30% not cured.

If you are in the cured, real treatment group you are happy. If you are in the cured placebo group you are happy.

If you are in the cured placebo group, you might conclude the drug worked for you and that this is an individual difference. But in fact, the evidence shows otherwise.

Similarly, the real pill cured group had a higher cure rate, but only 10% better than the placebo group. So the drug works, but not dramatically. Throw in an 8% incidence of side-effects of comparable severity and it's not a clear cut decision to treat.

Like investing, clinical research is all about the margins. Drug companies exploit the evidence by pointing to relative risk reduction rather than absolute reduction and in many other ways (particularly misleading in prevention where the disease isn't that likely to begin with).
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:32 PM   #55
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Yes, they do sound like individual differences, because they are. But in the end, you either believe in quality evidence (it's not all high quality to be sure) or you don't.

Consider a disease with two treatments. The first treatment cures 80% of those who take the pill and fails to cure 20%. The indistinguishable placebo group noted a cure rate of 70%, with the other 30% not cured.

If you are in the cured, real treatment group you are happy. If you are in the cured placebo group you are happy.

If you are in the cured placebo group, you might conclude the drug worked for you and that this is an individual difference. But in fact, the evidence shows otherwise.

Similarly, the real pill cured group had a higher cure rate, but only 10% better than the placebo group. So the drug works, but not dramatically. Throw in an 8% incidence of side-effects of comparable severity and it's not a clear cut decision to treat.

Like investing, clinical research is all about the margins. Drug companies exploit the evidence by pointing to relative risk reduction rather than absolute reduction and in many other ways (particularly misleading in prevention where the disease isn't that likely to begin with).
I hesitate to answer this because you are a doctor. But in this case we are talking more about logic than clinical medicine, so I'll go ahead. I agree with what you are saying about putting lipstick on the pig by using relative risk reduction to describe postitive results. Many consumers wouldn't have a clue about the distinction you are drawing, but clearly it is very important.

I think your example of the placebo and the supposed effective treatment is only a partial description of the problem presented for example by the Zona Plus, or by two active pills of possibly unknown effectiveness. If it is known that one treatment is a placebo-eg. it is a sugar pill, then your example is right. However, it is quite possible that the treatment is real, but it just doesn't work for many of the subjects, while working very well for others.

A well known biochemist from U Texas Austin, Roger Williams, spent much of a very long career investigating these individual differences. It doesn't fit well with today's medicine for the mass man, and that is why I said what I did in my post about individual differences.

Take another example, the controversey about high fat vs high carb reducing diets. If a high fat diet were a pill, the FDA would never have approved it. But for many people at least, it turns out to be both more effective and safer than the high carb diet. It may be worse or less safe or both of these for another group of individuals.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:12 PM   #56
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A few years ago my BP which had always been low started creeping up, first into borderline hypertension then into Stage I hypertension.

My doc put me on generic lisinopril (really inexpensive) and I developed a terrible hacking cough (but it lowered my BP). Finally I couldn't stand it any more, was going through a bag of Halls a day and told the doc no more.

Turns out ACE inhibitors do this to some people, cause a build up of some oligopeptide in the lungs.

He put me on an ARB, Hyzaar (many $$$) and my BP is perfect and no side effects.

And fortunately for me Hyzaar is the first ARB to go off patent just in time for my ER.

I am hoping when I am retired and lose some weight, increase my cardio health etc. that maybe I can go off the Hyzaar but if not it is OK as it is a wonderful drug after that awful experience with the ACE inhibitor.

PS I found out that the ACE inhibitors are basically snake venom. I am not making this up. The drug companies made variants of a snake venom from a species of snake that basically killed or stunned its prey by causing it to go into hypotensive shock.
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:33 PM   #57
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A few years ago my BP which had always been low started creeping up, first into borderline hypertension then into Stage I hypertension.

My doc put me on generic lisinopril (really inexpensive) and I developed a terrible hacking cough (but it lowered my BP). Finally I couldn't stand it any more, was going through a bag of Halls a day and told the doc no more.
You might want to be aware that Hyzaar contains not only the angiotensin receptor blocker losartan (an "ARB") but also a small dose of the diuretic hydrochlorothiazide. Cozaar (losartan alone) does not contain the diuretic. ARBs do not cause the cough that ACEs cause and are comparably effective.

So essentially you went from one drug to two drugs. This is not a bad thing at all, but just something to note. Diuretics have their own set of advantages and disadvantages. Sounds like your doctor is on top of things. Now if only we had a generic ARB...
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:05 PM   #58
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I know this - even three touchdowns ahead - my BP was 150/100 range till at least an hour after the game. And I took one extra BP pill(enalapril) the morning of the game.

Expect similarly high readings during the game tomorrow - win or lose.

And that's with controled breathing and trying to relax.

heh heh heh - so that Zona Plus might be worth it. Geaux Saints.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:03 AM   #59
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Damn Mick, maybe you should get a little drunk by kickoff time?

Ha
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:13 AM   #60
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After reading here about blood pressure I am getting more confused. Maybe someone can help me with this or maybe make a suggestion.

About 12 years ago a local doctor said I needed to be on b/s medicine. I started on a pill right away. That was in 1998. I continued to make the yearly visit and each time his ether changes my meds or raised the one I was on.

Then the day came in 2005 that I quit going to that doctor. I started a diet and exercise plan and lost 40 pounds in 6 months. I then went to a new doctor and my blood pressure was 110/70. They checked it many times over the next few weeks and it was always perfect.

Later that same year we had our annual city physical where all these people check B/P, b/s and cholesteroland that day my blood pressure was 195/100. The told me to rest and it came down to 170/90. They told me to see a doctor. I called the doctor’s office and I was told to just come in and they would test it. I drove to the doctor’s office that same day and it was 120/80. I was told just to come in every few days and a nurse would test it for me. I did and it was always perfect.

I had another physical a month ago and again it was perfect, 110/70. The nurse even asked me how I was keeping my blood pressure so good. I said nothing that I knew of just eating and walking.

This past Wednesday I went to the dentist to have a wisdom tooth pulled. They tested my blood pressure and it was 195/115. They said I would have to get my blood pressure under control before they could pull that tooth. I was sent immediately to the doctor and they tested it. It was 120/78.

I remember 30 years ago I had to go to the emergency room because I cut myself . They checked my B/P that day it was 200/120. I was put in a dark room after they sewed me up and told to test. The finally let me go and I was told to see a doctor about the B/S problem. I never did until many years later and here I am now.

I know this is a long post and I apologize but would like to have an opinion on what others think I should do. I know many here have had B/P problem and maybe someone here has had something similar. Thanks. Oldtrig
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