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Old 02-20-2014, 03:25 PM   #21
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Hmmm, 60 mile a week vegetarian long distance runner here (BMI 20). I'm on 5 mg of lisinopril per day. The only time it is ever out of whack any more is if I eat out at a restaurant. The sodium amounts in some foods is amazing.
I'm only about 40, and had HBP since I was in my early thirties.
A lot is life style, but sometimes it doesn't matter (don't use this as an excuse to not work on your weight or diet).
Also I noticed years ago that one beer a night is ok, but two will cause higher readings the next day. Just my observations.
Some people just get "lucky". Thank mom or dad for the "gift".

Alcohol drops BP pretty quickly, but then there is often a rebound rise the next day. Tobacco vasoconstricts and raises BP. Sudafed can be a big problem. Some people are sensitive to salt, but some aren't. Some people even have BP rise with certain BP drugs. Some people do everything right and still have a problem. Unless Franco can come up with a cure for genetics, some people just have to take meds.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:42 PM   #22
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Interesting quote from an short aticle on health, concerning "salt".
It does recognize that the greatest risk is from prepared foods.
DW blood tests indicate low sodium... We wouldn't have guessed that w/o the test.
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Salt

Old Wisdom: Salt kills. It raises blood pressures, causes hypertension and increases the risk of premature death.

New Wisdom: Salt is essential to health. Too little salt can actually lead to premature death.

The new wisdom is actually older than the old wisdom. Long before it became the number-one evildoer in the Department of Agriculture's hit list, worse than fats, sugar and booze, salt was considered so valuable to body and soul that it was literally used as currency. Homer called it a "divine substance." Plato described is as dear to the Gods. The Romans considered it the spice of life; a man in love was salax—in a salted state. Only fairly recently, in that oh-so-wise 20th century, did salt become the bad guy at the dinner table.

It turns out that high-sodium processed "food" is the real villain in our diets. Unrefined salt, such as Himalayan salt or raw sea salts, contain 60 or more valuable trace minerals. It supports thyroid function and a faster metabolism and speeds the elimination of cortisol, the stress hormone that causes weight gain. Did you know salt is also a natural antihistamine (a pinch on the tongue may stem an allergic reaction). Finally, unrefined salt is needed for good digestion.
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:03 PM   #23
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My high BP problem, like many folks, is sodium sensitive.
Always piqued when I read that quote. I would guess most are "salt sensitive" if 90% of the US population is eventually diagnosed with HBP. Wonder if it was a term invented by the salt institute.

We eat too much salt. Up to a month's worth in one day's eating of what our body needs.

Here's a website by a guy who was on a donor list for a new heart in 1997. He never got the heart transplant, but to this day he's still going strong:
low sodium Recipes, Low Sodium Cooking, heart disease, No salt recipes
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:53 PM   #24
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Interesting quote from an short aticle on health, concerning "salt".
It does recognize that the greatest risk is from prepared foods.
DW blood tests indicate low sodium... We wouldn't have guessed that w/o the test.
The "new wisdom" is a misreading of a recent Cochrane review of low salt diets. The review concluded that it is hard to get people to lower salt intake and that attempts to get people to lower their intake did not result in decreased cardiac events because people failed to lower their intakes, not because lower intake was unhealthy. The "salt is good" theory has been bouncing around the popular press for a couple of years now because of that misunderstanding. Here's a good explanation:

Salt: More confirmation bias for your preferred narrative « Science-Based Medicine
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:53 PM   #25
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Always piqued when I read that quote. I would guess most are "salt sensitive" if 90% of the US population is eventually diagnosed with HBP. Wonder if it was a term invented by the salt institute.
It just means that my BP has statistically significant changes in response to sodium intake. (For the pedantic: Everyone's BP changes. Mine shows changes in excess of the statistical daily fluctuations when I alter sodium intake.)

Less other diseases or stuff like nicotine, I suspect that everyone has a salt intake response in blood pressure. The change in sodium concentration directly alters the osmotic pressure across tissue membranes. That means the body tries to hold more water to maintain a sodium ion concentration when you eat more salt.

And yes, there is a lot of sodium in processed foods. My own experience is that if I eat only unprocessed or minimally processed (yes, please roll the oats for me...) foods, I would be taking in less than 400 mg of sodium a day, which would be too little. An honest to gosh Paleolithic diet like Alley Oop ate would probably deliver around 700 mg a day, enough to maintain health.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:30 AM   #26
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To M Paquette: When I pulled your quote and built my comment around it, I hesitated because I actually agreed with everything you said. I think you're very knowledgeable in this subject and I didn't mean at all to be picking on you.

I read this article and it turned my world upsidedown for the good: http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Article.../Jay%20CPE.pdf

BTW, FIL was in ICU 2 days ago. All the monitors are there to see what's happening to the vitals. His BP was 120/70 and when he started eating his systolic went to 160. That surprised me. I know he's old and he was in ICU, but if we could have monitors on us and see what happens to our bodies when we eat certain foods, it might make a difference in what we eat. Case in point: http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/...rudel-did.html
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:50 AM   #27
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Always piqued when I read that quote. I would guess most are "salt sensitive" if 90% of the US population is eventually diagnosed with HBP. Wonder if it was a term invented by the salt institute.[/url]
A lot of young people have very efficient kidneys that handle excess salt really well while maintaining normal BP. Almost no "old" people have kidneys that perform the same trick. Salt sensitivity is a function of age as well as genetics. There is certainly an argument to be made from observational data that populations with higher salt intake throughout life ultimately have more hypertension. The analogy that I always use is smoking. You probably won't harm yourself smoking in your 20s, but if you keep it up into your 50s, there will be damage (but my paternal GPs smoked heavily, drank heavily and lived into their late 90s).

There is a strain of what I think of as "contrarian" medicine running through the alt-med world which I think is showing up in the new "salt is good" fad.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:10 AM   #28
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A lot of young people have very efficient kidneys that handle excess salt really well while maintaining normal BP. Almost no "old" people have kidneys that perform the same trick. Salt sensitivity is a function of age as well as genetics. There is certainly an argument to be made from observational data that populations with higher salt intake throughout life ultimately have more hypertension. The analogy that I always use is smoking. You probably won't harm yourself smoking in your 20s, but if you keep it up into your 50s, there will be damage (but my paternal GPs smoked heavily, drank heavily and lived into their late 90s).



There is a strain of what I think of as "contrarian" medicine running through the alt-med world which I think is showing up in the new "salt is good" fad.

I personally don't know if salt impacts everyone the same or not. It has had no impact on me yet at 50. In fact, I in years past, just assumed I consumed little salt as I never used a shaker. After studying the types of food I ate, I might as well been a horse licking a salt block all day. Ironically my salt intake is very little now after a recent dietary change. I didn't do it over salt concern, it was done for the fact those types of foods were preventing me from having a 30 year old looking nice flat stomach, as the 50 year old knees weren't going to run that extra few pounds off.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:11 AM   #29
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I personally don't know if salt impacts everyone the same or not. It has had no impact on me yet at 50.
It has never seemed to affect my BP either up to age 65. I eat at restaurants every day. I do not normally add salt to the restaurant food, which I suppose is fairly salty already, but on rare occasion I do add quite a lot. Still, my BP is rock solid now (on low dosage BP meds) and also extra salt did not seem to adversely affect my BP on a day to day basis without the meds when I was in my fifties.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:35 AM   #30
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Maybe the age thing explains my DF. Perfect BP, till his mid 80s. From there he was on multiple meds.

I cut down on processed food and salt, when mine went higher and was put on meds. Today I only will salt a nice steak. For me once I got used to it, food actually tastes better.

After I had eaten this way for couple of years, I tried soup and sandwich at some chain. I couldn't eat the soup, the waiter asked if there was something wrong with the soup. My response 'you mean that cup of sea water?'.
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:45 PM   #31
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There is certainly an argument to be made from observational data that populations with higher salt intake throughout life ultimately have more hypertension.
No doubt the evidence bears this out. Populations, especially populations from a generation ago that ate their native diet, HBP was rare.

Also you mentioning eating salt in 20s and OK, but HBP in 60s. Most diseases of Western Civ are no longer microbes, but what we do to ourselves on a regular basis. Heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc, don't happen to us overnight. The incubation period can be 40-50 years.

Even the Bogalusa heart study proves that heart disease begins in young people. http://tulane.edu/som/cardiohealth/

AllDone also says: "There is a strain of what I think of as "contrarian" medicine running through the alt-med world which I think is showing up in the new "salt is good" fad."

Agree also. How much of this misinformation is put out by the Salt Institute, just as the now defunct Tobacco Institute said smoking was not harmful to one's health.

Woops. I think I might be straying into medicine--perhaps I'll be removed. Sorry if that is so.
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:52 PM   #32
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'you mean that cup of sea water?
If one really follows the recommendation of the IOM (Institute of Medicine), that's 1500mg of sodium per day. Now mind you, this is the average amount they recommend. Less than 1 in 200 people in US eat (what is considered) that low of sodium intake.

If one were to eat that range of sodium, not only many restaurant soups, but most restaurant foods would feel like one is eating a salt shaker.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:24 PM   #33
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If one really follows the recommendation of the IOM (Institute of Medicine), that's 1500mg of sodium per day. Now mind you, this is the average amount they recommend. Less than 1 in 200 people in US eat (what is considered) that low of sodium intake.

If one were to eat that range of sodium, not only many restaurant soups, but most restaurant foods would feel like one is eating a salt shaker.
Yup. All the restaurant meals I had last weekend tasted very salty to me. Yes, even (especially!) the dessert. I've gotten used to soups and vegetables tasting sweet, I think. I certainly noticed the contrast when I got back on the low sodium diet this week.

Here's the evening readings for this week, with date, time, BP, pulse, and sodium intake.
Quote:
== Dined out much of the weekend, no real access to sodium info. I’d bet I was over 1500 mg/day in spite of best efforts ==
17 Feb 1905 139/89 47
17 Feb 1910 133/87 47

18 Feb 2146 123/80 45
18 Feb 2150 117/76 44 751 mg sodium today

19 Feb 2110 119/74 52
19 Feb 2113 109/71 51 801 mg sodium today

20 Feb 2201 116/75 46
20 Feb 2210 122/78 46 929 mg sodium today

21 Feb 2117 112/71 45
21 Feb 2121 122/71 46 874 mg sodium today

22 Feb 1559 111/65 45
22 Feb 1607 113/74 44
There's a sort of trend in that data...
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:22 PM   #34
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Those are some great numbers. What influenced you to eat such a low sodium diet?
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:11 AM   #35
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Those are some great numbers. What influenced you to eat such a low sodium diet?
Getting a whole bunch of numbers over 140/90.

That, and a personal goal to be the first male in four generations to live past 70...
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:09 AM   #36
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Interesting discussion. And the reason we seldom eat out.
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:05 AM   #37
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Khan, just tell the doctor you read something about the risks of high blood pressure anad were wondering if you needed to be concerned. Patients can and should do that all the time.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:35 AM   #38
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Forget the drugs. They ALL have side effects. All drugs are Damage control for people who don't want to make a life style change.
Not true. Sometimes, as my doctor puts it, it's sh^tty genes!

Mike
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:04 AM   #39
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Mike , everyone is different and there may be a few unlucky soles that are genetically "screwed up". However my guess is that that Unlucky person is one in thousands. Doctors cant make a penny telling someone that they need to make a lifestyle change. However, prescribing drugs is very lucrative.
I went to a three day conference last year that focused on low carb diets. There were a number of doctors there. I talked a long time with one. He was a few years away from retirement, and had decided to spend his last years trying to prevent illness , rather than treating. He said that medical school taught little or nothing about nutrition. He had had several patients that he had "treated" for years for various ailments with no success. He had to take a hard look at his practice after several of his patients switched to doctors that focused on nutrition and were cured.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:12 AM   #40
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Mike , everyone is different and there may be a few unlucky soles that are genetically "screwed up". However my guess is that that Unlucky person is one in thousands. Doctors cant make a penny telling someone that they need to make a lifestyle change. However, prescribing drugs is very lucrative.
I went to a three day conference last year that focused on low carb diets. There were a number of doctors there. I talked a long time with one. He was a few years away from retirement, and had decided to spend his last years trying to prevent illness , rather than treating. He said that medical school taught little or nothing about nutrition. He had had several patients that he had "treated" for years for various ailments with no success. He had to take a hard look at his practice after several of his patients switched to doctors that focused on nutrition and were cured.
I agree that MOST people would would be cured of their ailment(s) if they just showed some concern for their own well being. Although, there are cases where medication is the only answer.

Mike
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