Brains and wine...

**Rich_in_Tampa** · 05-20-2008, 09:28 PM

... both improve with age.

This report mentions how the older brain is like a larger, fuller hard drive. We can recognize truthful patterns because we are taking an eagle's eye view that is not apparent to distractable younger people. Pattern recognition is better and transient distractions do not overwhelm.

It even glorifies the typical older person's "forgetfulness" -- we are searching and sorting a much larger database, discarding the irrelevant, and putting the "found records" in a more accurate context.

I've experienced examples of this personally. A medication came up today which a resident wanted to use on a patient. I couldn't recall the generic name (resident had used the brand name much to my disapproval). She came up with it a moment later, at about the same time it occurred to me that that one was part of a class of drugs that was later found to be too dangerous for most patients (though I still hadn't come up with the generic name). While she was rapidly zeroing in on the generic name, I had leap-frogged that and noted the drug to be dangerous based on a broader (if slower) knowledge base.

I sometimes babble on about preferring "just in time" learning (where I know how to quickly look up and access new information) to "just in case" learning where useless new information is memorized in the hope that it may become necessary soon -- which it rarely is, and clutters the field.

Notmuchlonger · 05-20-2008, 09:32 PM

Im going to have another glass now..Hey wait what..?

Khan · 05-20-2008, 09:35 PM

It is an interesting pastime: to observe might mind/body deteriorating right on schedule.

REWahoo · 05-20-2008, 09:36 PM

So...would the ability to spot a stealth spammer from 1,000 yards fall into this category?

BunsGettingFirm · 05-20-2008, 09:44 PM

Are you sure that the older brain is just searching a large database, or is it just trying to clear the years of wine damage?

Before big exams, I always make a point of stopping drinking 2-3 months before the exam. I'm not a doctor, but I do remember stuff a lot better if I don't drink.

samclem · 05-20-2008, 10:00 PM

Brad Paisley: Alcohol

YouTube - Brad Paisley - Alcohol

In part:

'Cause since the day I left Milwaukee
Lynchburg and Bordeaux France
Been making a fool out of folks just like you
And helping white people dance
I'm medicine and I am poison
I can help you up or make you fall
You had some of the best times
You'll never remember with me
Alcohol
Alcohol

ERD50 · 05-20-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunsGettingFirm

Before big exams, I always make a point of stopping drinking 2-3 months before the exam.

2-3 months before? I guess that's not so bad, as long as you don't need to stop drinking for more than say, 24 hours. Just mark the calendar, 'exam in 3 months - no drinks today'.

-ERD50

Traffic, John Barleycorn

Quote:

The huntsman, he can't hunt the fox
Nor so loudly to blow his horn,
And the tinker, he can't mend kettle nor pots
without a little barley corn

**Rich_in_Tampa** · 05-20-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo

So...would the ability to spot a stealth spammer from 1,000 yards fall into this category?

Pattern recognition at its best.

Of course that assumes you can still find your underpants and not lose your wallet in the refrigerator.

REWahoo · 05-20-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa

Of course that assumes you can still find your underpants and not lose your wallet in the refrigerator.

Not a problem. I keep my wallet in my underpants...in the fridge.

Nords · 05-20-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa

I sometimes babble on about preferring "just in time" learning...

It's also a lot easier to do when technology enables you to replace your PDR with a PDA...

"Recognize the pattern? What pattern?!?" It's interesting watching our teen driver learn how to maintain a scan. Essentially she can either do the scan or do anything else, but not simultaneously. She grumbles about not being allowed to touch the audio, climate, or cruise controls while driving but frankly she can't do so without completely ignoring whatever's happening outside the windows. Right now (three weeks into her learner's permit, driving almost every day) she can't even hold up her end of a conversation without neglecting her driving. It's hard to believe until you're sitting next to it at 55 mph.

It's also interesting to watch older military officers dealing with the same situations as younger ones. The older ones cope because ~~of survivor bias~~ they've survived the earlier situations and generally expect to survive this one too. They've also learned to ignore the extraneous and focus on the one or two important things that are about to (or need to) happen. The younger ones have trouble coping because they haven't found out yet if they're going to survive, and everything is equally important because they can't decide what to ignore.

whitestick · 05-21-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords

It's interesting watching our teen driver learn how to maintain a scan. Essentially she can either do the scan or do anything else, but not simultaneously. She grumbles about not being allowed to touch the audio, climate, or cruise controls while driving but frankly she can't do so without completely ignoring whatever's happening outside the windows.

Reminds me of when i taught my daughter to drive. I would sit in the car with her and make her close her eyes, and learn to reach down, change the radio stations, insert CDs and eject them, pick up lipsticks off the floor, and pick up her phone, flip it open, answer it, and hang up, without looking. When she graduated from that, I made her focus straight ahead and read a book on the dash, while doing all the afore mentioned stuff, and then tested her on the information that she had read. Only when I was satisfied that she could do all that, would I let her actually start the car, and begin to move. Periodically, I would have her do some of that while driving around the parking lot, to be sure that she could do it. She was quite exasperated with me at the time, but now, some 14 years later, she says that it certainly saved her on a number of occasions that she hadn't told me about at the time. I knew she was going to do all that stuff anyway, so I wanted here able to do it without losing focus on the road.
Now if I could just figure out how to get all those cell phone talking, fast food eating, newspaper reading drivers on the road today, to learn how to do it, without crossing over into my lane, I would feel safer for myself.

Walt34 · 05-21-2008, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords

It's interesting watching our teen driver learn how to maintain a scan. Essentially she can either do the scan or do anything else, but not simultaneously.

What I remember most about learning to fly an airplane was the frustration of not knowing how to split attention, or what to focus on when. Didn't have (or don't remember) that in driving - lots of bike riding is good preparation?

Pay attention to heading, altitude goes off.
Watch altitude, engine rpm goes off.
Watch that, one wing is low and turning (again!)
Change a radio frequency - where are we?
And on and on....

Now I'm going to get a glass of wine.

newguy88 · 05-21-2008, 07:22 AM

Brain.....

Wine and your Brain......

Look what happens.....

See Newguy..... Be afraid be very careful, Wine...

HFWR · 05-21-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords

"Recognize the pattern? What pattern?!?" It's interesting watching our teen driver learn how to maintain a scan. Essentially she can either do the scan or do anything else, but not simultaneously. She grumbles about not being allowed to touch the audio, climate, or cruise controls while driving but frankly she can't do so without completely ignoring whatever's happening outside the windows. Right now (three weeks into her learner's permit, driving almost every day) she can't even hold up her end of a conversation without neglecting her driving. It's hard to believe until you're sitting next to it at 55 mph.

Heck, I used to roll a jay while steering with my knee...

cute fuzzy bunny · 05-21-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo

Not a problem. I keep my wallet in my underpants...in the fridge.

Just...no fridge in the underpants please...

ls99 · 05-21-2008, 09:51 AM

Maybe, youthful brain does not have a lot of connective bits between discrete information. My older brain full is of stuff. (go ahead, its and opening)

Mostly obsolete knowledge. Used to like to call it "situational awareness"

Being retired, "situational awareness" is not as important as when there can be unintended rapid oxidization, two things attempting to occupy the same space at the same time, or other mayhem.

So I lift my glass to soften the view.

bbbamI · 05-21-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR

Heck, I used to roll a jay while steering with my knee...

What's a jay?

Nords · 05-21-2008, 10:46 AM

Thanks, Whitestick, we're going to have to try that someday. Just turning on the headlights can still be a challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR

Heck, I used to roll a jay while steering with my knee...

Alas, some advanced driving skills training will have to be outsourced to the professionals...

lazygood4nothinbum · 05-21-2008, 11:01 AM

now if only i could access the defrag function.

during certain trance or dreamstates, mind can multiply attention spans so that instead of looking through one point of view, consciousness divides like through a prism whereby you can simultaneously put your full attention to remembering your day, to enjoying a dream, planning tomorrow, working with a completely different dream or two from your other dream which you continue to monitor, create musical scores, each instrument of the orchestra completely auditory & under control, experience some other things that i won't even go into because who's gonna believe that when just what i'm describing is so counter our ordinary state of being, etc.

memory afterwards is one of having had separate events during the same time period yet without disjuncture or discordance and fully brings to bare the notion that time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

still, i prefer to pull off the road to take a phone c

05-20-2008, 09:28 PM	#1
Rich_in_Tampa Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 5,882	Brains and wine... ... both improve with age. This report mentions how the older brain is like a larger, fuller hard drive. We can recognize truthful patterns because we are taking an eagle's eye view that is not apparent to distractable younger people. Pattern recognition is better and transient distractions do not overwhelm. It even glorifies the typical older person's "forgetfulness" -- we are searching and sorting a much larger database, discarding the irrelevant, and putting the "found records" in a more accurate context. I've experienced examples of this personally. A medication came up today which a resident wanted to use on a patient. I couldn't recall the generic name (resident had used the brand name much to my disapproval). She came up with it a moment later, at about the same time it occurred to me that that one was part of a class of drugs that was later found to be too dangerous for most patients (though I still hadn't come up with the generic name). While she was rapidly zeroing in on the generic name, I had leap-frogged that and noted the drug to be dangerous based on a broader (if slower) knowledge base. I sometimes babble on about preferring "just in time" learning (where I know how to quickly look up and access new information) to "just in case" learning where useless new information is memorized in the hope that it may become necessary soon -- which it rarely is, and clutters the field. __________________ Rich Tampa, FL (10% retired) As if you didn't know..If the above message happens to contain medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any medical purpose whatsoever. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.

05-20-2008, 09:32 PM	#2
Notmuchlonger Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,902	Im going to have another glass now..Hey wait what..? __________________ He who will not economize will have to agonize

05-20-2008, 09:35 PM	#3
Khan Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Greater Dayton area Posts: 3,077	It is an interesting pastime: to observe might mind/body deteriorating right on schedule. __________________ "Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone"

05-20-2008, 09:36 PM	#4
REWahoo Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 11,516	So...would the ability to spot a stealth spammer from 1,000 yards fall into this category? __________________ [MODERATOR EDIT]

05-21-2008, 09:51 AM	#16
ls99 Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 398	Maybe, youthful brain does not have a lot of connective bits between discrete information. My older brain full is of stuff. (go ahead, its and opening) Mostly obsolete knowledge. Used to like to call it "situational awareness" Being retired, "situational awareness" is not as important as when there can be unintended rapid oxidization, two things attempting to occupy the same space at the same time, or other mayhem. So I lift my glass to soften the view. __________________ There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.

05-20-2008, 09:44 PM	#5
BunsGettingFirm Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 806	Are you sure that the older brain is just searching a large database, or is it just trying to clear the years of wine damage? Before big exams, I always make a point of stopping drinking 2-3 months before the exam. I'm not a doctor, but I do remember stuff a lot better if I don't drink.

05-21-2008, 07:22 AM	#13
newguy88 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,119	Brain..... Wine and your Brain...... Look what happens..... See Newguy..... Be afraid be very careful, Wine...