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Old 03-25-2016, 07:29 AM   #21
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For what ever reason, I always have 5-8 lbs to shed coming out of winter. Combination of inactivity and boredom I suppose. During the winter my junk food cravings increase. Time to flip the off switch on junk and get back to eating fruit for my sweet tooth. In the meantime...........

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Old 03-25-2016, 09:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by sengsational View Post
CICO is a poor model of reality. We don't all extract energy with the same efficiency.
I'd say it is a very good model. It isn't 100% accurate (what in life *is*?) but it's the best working model available. There are many areas where it is difficult to get a firm grasp on the numbers: Calorie measurements, FDA regulations on labeling, food producer labeling accuracy, food intake estimation, energy expenditure estimation, gut flora health, genetics, etc. But the bottom line is that if you aren't losing weight, you just need to move more and eat less. If you continue to do so, you will eventually lose weight. Otherwise people could stop eating and not lose weight, or could eat 10,000 calories a day and not gain weight. Since that isn't possible, it proves the basic efficacy of CICO. Everything else from there is just working out what your body's numbers are.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:31 AM   #23
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CICO is a poor model of reality. We don't all extract energy with the same efficiency. We all have different gut microbiota, and that's a huge factor. Dozens of studies on it. Heres one: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212877812000051
That's it, I'm blaming any overweight on my gut microbiota from now on.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:28 AM   #24
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[QUOTE]
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but it's the best working model available.
That doesn't mean it's good. The best working model could still be crap. Just because it's all we have doesn't mean it's good enough.


It doesn't work for me but I am not a fta guy always trying to lose weight. 1500 cals per day would not even require exercise in a normal person (no endocrine problems etc) If I eat almost any amount of carbs, at 19000 cals per day and an hour of any exercise you wanna name the weight will not come off. On the other hand I can increase my calories substantially and reduce the exercise and watch the pounds (never more that 10 or so) come off.

And the willfully ignorant person who wrote that page about No it's the calories. Is sniffing glue. Just because he cheats doesn't mean other people cheat. I know how to keep track of my diet better than any worst case diabetic I have ever seen, and have done so for years. His theory is wrong.

As has been stated, not all calories are the same or have the same effect on a person and every person is different.

And it doesn't count to say "oh yeah! Well starve for 2 weeks and see how much weight you lose", 'cause that's just stupid and admitting defeat
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:54 AM   #25
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...you just need to move more and eat less.
It's that nagging "how" thing that keeps getting in the way.

No matter how much we think we are in control of what and how much we eat, that's more of an illusion than most of us think. Sure, in the short term, we can will ourselves to do about anything, but over the long-term, not so much. That's why diets that ignore satiety fail in the long run, and "move more eat less" is basically the same as saying "work-up an appetite", which is why it's not very helpful advice, imho.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:03 PM   #26
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[QUOTE=razztazz;1712171]
Quote:
That doesn't mean it's good. The best working model could still be crap. Just because it's all we have doesn't mean it's good enough.
As I said above: "Science is not about true or false but simply a search to be less wrong."

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That's why diets that ignore satiety fail in the long run, and "move more eat less" is basically the same as saying "work-up an appetite", which is why it's not very helpful advice, imho.
Exactly.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:28 PM   #27
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I went and had a resting metabolic rate test done. Sit in a chair and breathe into a mask for 20 minutes.


Gives you calories burned in resting state for the day.

Very accurate, for me. Using that as a baseline and tracking food, I maintain easily.


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Old 03-25-2016, 02:42 PM   #28
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[QUOTE=razztazz;1712171]
Quote:

That doesn't mean it's good. The best working model could still be crap. Just because it's all we have doesn't mean it's good enough.


It doesn't work for me but I am not a fta guy always trying to lose weight. 1500 cals per day would not even require exercise in a normal person (no endocrine problems etc) If I eat almost any amount of carbs, at 19000 cals per day and an hour of any exercise you wanna name the weight will not come off. On the other hand I can increase my calories substantially and reduce the exercise and watch the pounds (never more that 10 or so) come off.

And the willfully ignorant person who wrote that page about No it's the calories. Is sniffing glue. Just because he cheats doesn't mean other people cheat. I know how to keep track of my diet better than any worst case diabetic I have ever seen, and have done so for years. His theory is wrong.

As has been stated, not all calories are the same or have the same effect on a person and every person is different.

And it doesn't count to say "oh yeah! Well starve for 2 weeks and see how much weight you lose", 'cause that's just stupid and admitting defeat
19000 calories per day? Wow!


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Old 03-25-2016, 02:46 PM   #29
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Didn't wanna start another thread on this, so squeezing it in here, 'cuz I have to share it....
After reading the headings to DW, it took us a few minutes to stop laughing.

The 10 Worst Foods to Eat in the Morning | Alternet

If you get to the section about pancakes, click on the highlighted link "eggs".

I'm pretty sure that if I followed the recommendations, I might starve to death.

For those who believe, and follow the guidelines of what not to eat, don't stand sideways because others may not see you.
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Old 03-25-2016, 03:07 PM   #30
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Options,
That is certainly hard for almost anyone to relate with. But I believe you. My wife genuinely hates to eat as well. She is 'saved' by her exceptions of chocolate, ice cream, and queso.
It is tempting to say you are lucky but I'm sure that's not the case. Hating to eat is like hating to breathe. There's no getting around it.
Don't know how young you may be. If you are younger perhaps it's the type of thing that improves with age. What does your doctor say?
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How nice to hear someone else hates to eat, too (misery loves company )! Yes, few relate to people who don't like eating and who are on a perpetual diet to keep weight on. I'm actually 61 soon and have had an issue with not liking to eat/keeping on weight all my life. Getting older didn't help at all, as around the age of 50, my metabolism actually sped up for a few years (but that was most likely due to stress). Interestingly, my physicians say I'm in outstanding health.

I think whether you're trying to lose, maintain, or gain weight, it's like anything else. If you're serious about it, you'll find a way to make it happen. For males over 30, weight control become critical as you sort pass a point of no return where getting a handle on your weight becomes increasingly difficult. For females, I understand the age is even younger. I believe it's something we have no choice but to do, however, as so many health outcomes (not to mention quality of life) are related to proper weight control. Health outcomes, in turn, determine the degree of financial burden of health costs for those in retirement (and isn't that already enough of a burden if you're just healthy?).
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Old 03-25-2016, 07:07 PM   #31
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As I am looking over this discussion the TV has a cooking show on showing how to make 'healthy' whole wheat blueberry muffins. The main ingredients are pulverized whole wheat flour, white sugar, blueberries and brown sugar. That is in order by amount. Other than the blueberries, they will drive a huge insulin response in many if not most people.

Healthy? Not for me.
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Old 03-25-2016, 07:14 PM   #32
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[QUOTE=misanman;1712265]
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19000 calories per day? Wow!


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You don't count the last zero. See, my blood sugar so low I can't type straight

Bottom line: The calories uber Alles theory is another medical, pop-science turd that simply goes away with any serious observation
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by sengsational View Post
It's that nagging "how" thing that keeps getting in the way.

No matter how much we think we are in control of what and how much we eat, that's more of an illusion than most of us think. Sure, in the short term, we can will ourselves to do about anything, but over the long-term, not so much. That's why diets that ignore satiety fail in the long run, and "move more eat less" is basically the same as saying "work-up an appetite", which is why it's not very helpful advice, imho.
Interesting. We are in control aren't we? But still many fail long term.

We watched our neighbor drop 50 pounds by eating frozen meals. Not diet meals, she limited her calories to 1000 daily including her 140 calorie coke. A year later she's back up 60 pounds.

Our idea was to change everything about what we ate. We still enjoy many of the same foods but with awareness of the amount of calories were eating. Thanks to logging our meals I became aware of how many high calorie items we'd ingest. For example. Pasta my lord! Pasta a serving is 2 ounces! Two, two lousy ounces for 200 calories! What? I used to cook a pound for the two of us. Now what? Same with sauce, now I make my own with control of what goes in it. Less better quality red meat with some ground turkey and more mushrooms, no added stuff I don't want or can't spell.

The knowledge we gained by logging our meals was responsible for a major change in how we eat. Pasta was one example, there were many more. We do enjoy Ben and Jerry’s nightly 100 grams is ~300 calories. I never had a clue to how little a standard half cup of ice cream is either.

I suppose I might be a little obsessed about what we eat. DW just smiles as the dogs wait for me to weigh their food in the morning.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:32 PM   #34
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We are in control aren't we?
I saw an only half-joking graphic of a guy's gut microbiome forcing him to grab a cupcake, lol!
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:41 PM   #35
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I have a sneaking suspicion (not backed by science) that different people "absorb" different percentages of the calories they consume.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:46 PM   #36
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I have a sneaking suspicion (not backed by science) that different people "absorb" different percentages of the calories they consume.
Absolutely not. If you take food, put it into a device called a "bomb calorimeter" and you burn the food, measure the energy output, subtract the energy that you used to burn the food, that is EXACTLY the number of calories that every single person gets as energy. Except maybe not.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:52 PM   #37
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Absolutely not. If you take food, put it into a device called a "bomb calorimeter" and you burn the food, measure the energy output, subtract the energy that you used to burn the food, that is EXACTLY the number of calories that every single person gets as energy. Except maybe not.
The food needs to be digested so that the energy released can be used by the body or stored. What if the system isn't digesting food efficiently?

Like I said earlier, I don't have anything to back this up, so I'll leave it at that.
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Old 03-26-2016, 02:42 AM   #38
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Where I come from, a pound is two whole boxes of spaghetti. I cook one 8-ounce box for 3 people, and none of us is dieting. Never occurred to me to open a second box.

Not judging; just finding this interesting.

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Pasta a serving is 2 ounces! Two, two lousy ounces for 200 calories! What? I used to cook a pound for the two of us.
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:09 AM   #39
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I do not try to track calories. If I find I have gained some, I just eat a little less until I am back to par. That is what you would have to do anyway without the extra work.
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Old 03-26-2016, 07:49 AM   #40
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This article is for "Insiders" but us lay people can gain a lot from it:

How to beat health & fitness quacks at their own game: A guide for science-based practitioners. | Alan Aragon's Blog

Quote:
Here’s a test: head to the mall and ask a dozen random people who they’d consider to be the most influential person in health and fitness.

Unless this particular mall shares a parking lot with Gold’s Gym Venice, the top 3 responses will be Dr. Oz, Jillian Michaels, and The Food Babe.

Ever wonder why the mainstream health and fitness industry is so heavily dominated by quacks and hucksters? There’s no shortage of capable and educated practitioners – why do so few ever bust through the glass ceiling into mainstream popularity?
...
It’s no secret – at least among real fitness pros – that the trainers and health gurus basking in the limelight are among the worst at their craft.
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