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Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 04:25 PM   #1
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Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

I have been posting some information from a healthcare symposium that I recently attended. One of the speakers was a pharmacist who did a speech on Foreign vs. Domestic medications. He relayed some information to the audience about a recent study that was done on drug importation from Canada. Apparently, it was found that about 85% of the drugs that people thought they were ordering from Canada actually originated from other countries, and about 1/2 of those drugs were found to be counterfeit. (counterfeit, meaning that they did not contain the right quantities or any of the active ingredient).
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 04:51 PM   #2
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
Apparently, it was found that about 85% of the drugs that people thought they were ordering from Canada actually originated from other countries, and about 1/2 of those drugs were found to be counterfeit. (counterfeit, meaning that they did not contain the right quantities or any of the active ingredient).
That's a statement that begs for a robust, evidence-based reference. No offense, but "I heard it at a symposium" won't convince me.

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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:01 PM   #3
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

The speaker was Paul M. Reilly, RPh, MS. I don't know if he has ever done any other speeches on this subject elsewhere, but I just thought it was a scary statistic, so I wrote it down and thought I would relay it to the board. Maybe you can find his name/more info. on the internet. The symposium was held by the National Association of Health Underwriters in Colorado Springs, CO at the Marriot hotel last Thursday.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:05 PM   #4
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Is it possible a pharmacists whose livelihood depends on selling drugs to a captive audience of Americans, has a vested interest in lying obscuring the facts and making people afraid to shop elsewhere for a lower price?

And of the 85% of drugs that "originated from other countries"..so what? what percent of those originated in the USA? or France, or England from which the US also imports. Thats a meaningless statistic as far as I can tell.

There have been numerous stores of counterfeit drugs sold right here in the USA too.



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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:09 PM   #5
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe the study was done by the FDA. The other countries were "other foreign countries". I need to get more info. Hey, I don't know why you guys are so quick to discount this. (Must be because you don't like my political opinions, which by the way, have nothing to do with this subject.)

It's a scary thought. How many of you are ordering your drugs from internet sites that you think are legitimate Canadian pharmacies? It might be worth checking into.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:20 PM   #6
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
It's a scary thought. How many of you are ordering your drugs from internet sites that you think are legitimate Canadian pharmacies? It might be worth checking into.
How many of you picking up drugs at your local pharmacy have been similarly duped?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13137839/

The problem isn't about Canada, its about counterfeit drugs...by trying to scare people into buying from the US your "speaker" isn't trying to solve the problem, he's trying to make his boat payments.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:22 PM   #7
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

OK - Here is some more information that might be more believable to you guys. Geesh, you'd think I was some kind of evil person for trying to pass this information on....

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2006/NEW01441.html
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:27 PM   #8
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

The FDA (bought and sold by the big US drug companies since Bush took office and probably before), is about as convincing as "some speaker" at a conference.

I agree that counterfeit drugs are a BIG (potential) problem, it just not a Canada problem.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:27 PM   #9
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
I just thought it was a scary statistic, so I wrote it down and thought I would relay it to the board. Maybe you can find his name/more info. on the internet.
Well, thanks, but I wasn't the one who posted the claim, so I guess maybe you can find it on the internet or perhaps provide a reference so we can see what the context was.

Quote:
"Must be because you don't like my political opinions, which by the way, have nothing to do with this"subject."
You know, MKLD, you seem to be obsessive about needing to label people as either "conservative" or "liberal." Sometimes people really want to know facts, or they just don't find a statement credible. It's not all about your political preoccupation. I've met lots of online friends here of all pesuasions whom I find very credible.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:33 PM   #10
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Well, thanks, but I wasn't the one who posted the claim, so I guess maybe you can find it on the internet or perhaps provide a reference so we can see what the context was.
I bet you don't always ask every person on this board to backup every word they say. Here's the detail...

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2006/NEW01441.html
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:34 PM   #11
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Thanks for the web site reference. It says:

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is advising consumers not to purchase prescription drugs from websites that have orders filled by Mediplan Prescription Plus Pharmacy or Mediplan Global Health in Manitoba, Canada following reports of counterfeit versions of prescription drug products being sold by these companies to U.S. consumers. FDA is investigating these reports and is coordinating with international law enforcement authorities on this matter."

Appears that someone busted an internet pharmacy scam. A plan in Manitoba. You originally said:

"He relayed some information to the audience about a recent study that was done on drug importation from Canada. Apparently, it was found that about 85% of the drugs that people thought they were ordering from Canada actually originated from other countries, and about 1/2 of those drugs were found to be counterfeit.."

I believe there is a discrepancy here.

The other citation said:

For example, in August of 2005, FDA conducted an operation at New York, Miami, and Los Angeles airports which found that nearly half of the imported drugs FDA intercepted from four selected countries were shipped to fill orders that consumers believed they were placing with “Canadian pharmacies.” Of the drugs being promoted as “Canadian,” based on accompanying documentation, 85 percent actually came from 27 other countries around the globe. A number of these products also were found to be counterfeit. These results demonstrated that some Internet sites that claimed to be “Canadian” were, in fact, selling drugs of dubious origin, safety and efficacy.

Sounds like it is very important to be careful when ordering drugs over the Internet alleged to be from Canada. This is not all "drug importation from Canada," just those purchased through selected web site scams from 4 selected countries (wonder which they were).

It's a good heads up, but I don't think it means that 85% of drug importation from Canada is bogus,
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:39 PM   #12
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

And if you read the rest of the warning it says:

"For example, in August of 2005, FDA conducted an operation at New York, Miami, and Los Angeles airports which found that nearly half of the imported drugs FDA intercepted from four selected countries were shipped to fill orders that consumers believed they were placing with “Canadian pharmacies.” Of the drugs being promoted as “Canadian,” based on accompanying documentation, 85 percent actually came from 27 other countries around the globe. A number of these products also were found to be counterfeit. These results demonstrated that some Internet sites that claimed to be “Canadian” were, in fact, selling drugs of dubious origin, safety and efficacy"
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 05:43 PM   #13
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMcDonald
The FDA (bought and sold by the big US drug companies since Bush took office and probably before), is about as convincing as "some speaker" at a conference.
The FDA is full of government bureaucrats. So, you give them way too much credit. The people to worry about are the bozos in the congress and senate. I suspect that now that the dems are in a majority in both houses a lot of the rhetoric about getting cheaper drugs will fall way down the legislative priority list. We'll still hear the speeches but don't hold your breath for a rational solution.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 06:06 PM   #14
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Sounds like it is very important to be careful when ordering drugs over the Internet alleged to be from Canada. This is not all "drug importation from Canada," just those purchased through selected web site scams from 4 selected countries (wonder which they were).

It's a good heads up, but I don't think it means that 85% of drug importation from Canada is bogus,
Thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say to the board in a more intelligent manner. I apologize for not speaking intelligently:

"It's a scary thought. How many of you are ordering your drugs from internet sites that you think are legitimate Canadian pharmacies? It might be worth checking into."

I didn't mean it to sound as if 85% of Canadian drugs were counterfeit, and I don't believe I stated it that way in my original post. The way I read the article was that from the sampling that the FDA took, it appears that 85% of the drugs people THINK they are ordering from Canada actually come from other foreign countries, and of those drugs MANY were found to be counterfeit.


For the record, I am FOR re-importation of Canadian drugs if and when it can be done safely. It will reduce costs for Americans and make drugs for Canadians more expensive, which it should be, since we are currently paying the extra price for their price controls.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 06:11 PM   #15
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

I try to put no faith in either party to solve problems. Less disappointment that way.


When the FDA tried to ban (or did ban?) patients from ordering from Canada, it was, imo, at the behest of a lot of lobbying from drug companies who have a vested interest in the status quo...

Keep in mind though, its many of these same companies that will ship jobs and factories overseas in a blink of of any eye if they can save a dollar...it was particularly hypocritical to argue in favor of allowing jobs/factories/investments to go to the cheapest suppliers, and at the same time prevent consumers from doing the same thing in the name of drug safety.

In a lot of ways, since drugs are much more expensive in the US than Canada, there is even *more* incentive to get those counterfeit drugs on sale here in the US...higher markup.

Buying drugs from a legitimate Canadian pharmacy is as safe as buying from a legitimate US pharmacy, imo. But that doesn't mean either one is 100% safe. There have been plenty of stories about bogus drugs in the US, not to mention stories about pharmacists watering down/diluting drugs to stretch their profits even more.

Caveat emptor.

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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 06:23 PM   #16
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
Geesh, you'd think I was some kind of evil person for trying to pass this information on....
Dogs, I think there is a reason people tend to jump on everything you say and ask for backup references.

You *do* come across as saying that the US healthcare system is just fine, so why would anyone want to change it? That may not be your intended message, but to me, at least, it sure sounds like that.

Drugs from Canada ... that's people trying to reduce their high medication costs, largely caused by problems with the system ...

Peter
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 06:36 PM   #17
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

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Originally Posted by Peter
Drugs from Canada ... that's people trying to reduce their high medication costs, largely caused by problems with the system ...
I believe a HUGE part of the reason why people pay such high prices for drugs in America is because we are eating the costs of the price controls set by other countries for drugs that they buy from America. Other countries buy the drugs cheaply from America, and America pays the extra to make up for cost and lost profits of drugs sold cheaply to foreign countries.
Hmmm...kinda makes you wonder if this is part of the reason why our healthcare cost statistic is so much higher than the low per capita figures for other foreign countries. Maybe if our drug companies refused to accept the price controls for meds they sell to other countries, we wouldn't be in such a bad place with the cost of our meds....
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 08:47 PM   #18
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

FWIW, here is a six month old link to a news story about Mediplan, which I believe has now gone out of business. Why? To dispense drugs, a physician's prescription was required. The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Manitoba decreed that it was unethical for a physician to prescribe for a patient he/she had not seen and disciplined several physicians.

American consumers are not the only people to find a way round the profit motive of Big Pharma. Brazil did it as a nation, as a key component of its strategy to combat AIDS.
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....
Old 02-10-2007, 08:58 PM   #19
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Re: Canadian Drugs...Interesting Statistic....

Hmmm...

It appears I may be misinformed about the economic impact of selling drugs cheaper to foreign countries:

"Analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that drug importation from industrialized countries would reduce Americans' drug expenditures by only about $40 billion over 10 years— or by only about 1%.4"

"The long-term impact [of drug re-importation] is equally disturbing. If companies cannot separate markets, world prices will gravitate toward a single price, severely compromising poor nations. This is not a manufacturer scare tactic."

http://www.pharmacytimes.com/article.cfm?ID=1901

That was an interesting article. I think a lot of people are misinformed about drug reimportation. (I have always been FOR it - due to my beliefs as mentioned in my prior post). But, if it would severly compromise poor nations at such a small positive economic impact to the USA, then we have to find a better solution.

Looking at it from a longterm perspective, the incentives involved with new HSA products and the "doughnut hole" in the Medicare Part D plan, will eventually help allow the market to sort the problem out, because more and more people will demand generics which will eventually help drive prices down overall. I hear that over the next couple of years, several blockbuster drugs will be going generic. Although it is apparent that "Big Pharma" is "sticking it" to the American people, I'd rather have the drug available at a high cost than not have it available at all (especially if it is a lifesaving drug).
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