Cholesterol and diet - You there haha?

[Dash man]

That's not accurate at all. Recent studies may have indicated that it doesn't reduce the chance of heart disease or strokes, but I have never seen a study that indicates that it causes strokes, and I read about it a lot. I've considered stopping it because it has other serious side effects, but not that one.

Well, I'll listen to my cardiologist. He also had me drop fish oil supplements because recent studies show a link to prostrate cancer. Since my uncle passed last year from prostate cancer after years on fish oil, I'm following those instructions too.


Enjoying life!

 

[harley]

It may not be too hard for some individuals, but for others it can be extremely difficult regardless of what you do. I suspect some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all. I am one of those and find it almost impossible for me to move above 40 regardless of what I do exercise and diet wise.

True. If you look at any description of those activities regarding raising HDL you'll see that they can raise it 5-10%. That's great if your HDL is 70. My natural HDL level was always <25, below the lowest measurable amount. Raising it 5-10% wouldn't do diddly. Taking niacin raised it to over 40, which is great. But now I'm reading that raising HDL via niacin doesn't effect heart disease, which was the entire point. Add in the fairly severe side effects, and I'm stuck with a tough choice.

 

[zinger1457]

Well, I'll listen to my cardiologist. He also had me drop fish oil supplements because recent studies show a link to prostrate cancer. Since my uncle passed last year from prostate cancer after years on fish oil, I'm following those instructions too.

According to the recent Frontline story on supplements there seems to be very little solid 'independent' research to back up any supplement claims other than those bought and paid for by the supplement companies. Supplements are unregulated, test of supplements have shown a high percentage don't have the quantity of supplement shown on the label and in some cases don't even contain the supplement.

 

[athena53]

You know, the more I read about diabetes and cholesterol, as well as their various treatments, the more I realize the medical profession doesn't have a clue. They grab a symptom and treat the hell out of it, until they realize either the symptom isn't the cause or that the treatment is worse than the symptom. Then they grab another pharmaceutical strand of spaghetti and throw it against the wall and see if it sticks.

Yeah, I get that feeling, too. I gave up statins years ago when I had tendonitis so severe that I couldn't lift a spoon to my mouth without agonizing pains near my elbow. That was 6 months after starting Prevastatin. I threw them out. Symptoms went away and have never returned. Yesterday I bicycled 31 miles.

So, now I try to control cholesterol with diet and supplements. With a massive % of the over-50 population on cholesterol-lowering meds and heart disease still prevalent in the population, I'm not convinced that lowering cholesterol solves the problem.

 

[plsprius]

IMHO your blood cholesterol doesn't really have anything to do with your risk. This was shown quite a while ago.



Most heart attack patients' cholesterol levels did not indicate cardiac risk

I'd recommnd reading the rest of that article, which goes on to say:

"While the risk of cardiovascular events increases substantially with LDL levels above 40–60 mg/dL, current national cholesterol guidelines consider LDL levels less than 100–130 mg/dL acceptable for many individuals. The guidelines are thus not effectively identifying the majority of individuals who will develop fatal and non-fatal cardiovascular events, according to the study's authors."​

My thinking is that good (i.e., 100 LDL) levels of cholesterol result in typical heart disease and stroke risk--the leading killer of Americans.

Of course, to each his own. YMMV.

 

[audreyh1]

It may not be too hard for some individuals, but for others it can be extremely difficult regardless of what you do. I suspect some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all. I am one of those and find it almost impossible for me to move above 40 regardless of what I do exercise and diet wise.

Right - some people have low HDL due to genetics.

 

[braumeister]

I'd recommnd reading the rest of that article.

Not trying to pick an argument (I'm no expert by any means), but I could counter your point with another quote from the paper in question:

It appears that when the total/HDL or LDL/HDL cholesterol ratio is favorable, the level of the lipids that compose the ratio on CHD risk has little influence.

 

[MRG]

You know, the more I read about diabetes and cholesterol, as well as their various treatments, the more I realize the medical profession doesn't have a clue. They grab a symptom and treat the hell out of it, until they realize either the symptom isn't the cause or that the treatment is worse than the symptom. Then they grab another pharmaceutical strand of spaghetti and throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. I think I may stop taking some of my meds, at least the ones that cause me problems or that have serious side effects. My diabetes and blood pressure meds seem to be pretty safe, but the cholesterol side of things is just too unknown and potentially dangerous. Something to seriously think about.

+1.

The more that's learned it appears that we know nothing. I've noticed how little we know since attempting to lose weight. You can listen to 15 different experts and receive 15 different opinions.

I went off the med for triglycerides without telling my doc. When I saw him 2 months ago, he was all for it. Of course he knows how much weight I've lost and how I'm eating.

I was on atenelol(beta blocker) for my BP for many years, eventually it slowed my heart rate down too low(not sure how low it was 36 in the ER). Switching to lisinopril fixed that. Since losing weight I'm off that too.

 

[prose3589]

This post is timely for me. I just got results from blood work. Doc is recommending statins. My LDL has gone up since 2013 and during the same time frame I have lost 40 pounds, decreased red meat and fats and seriously upped my exercise. Work out with a trainer 3 times a week and bike and cardio the other days. I am 44 with a horrible family history. I am leaning towards trying the meds but this thread has me a bit nervous. I am going to keep researching. Appreciate everyone's input.


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[NW-Bound]

Guess I am lucky. No problem at all with my blood work. No meds.

 

[aja8888]

Guess I am lucky. No problem at all with my blood work. No meds.

Ditto, and keep up the good work!

 

[CountryGal]

I think drugs are just a band-aid and don't really cure the underlying problem. I have switched to more whole food plant based diet. It has helped my numbers. The Dr. I follow just came out with a book called The End of Heart Disease (Dr. Fuhrman). He has some compelling case studies in the book.

 

[prose3589]

CountryGal -if you don't mind me asking- have you eliminated all meat from your diet? Are you totally vegan?


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[Chuckanut]

I have been reading and following the "Always Hungry" plan found in the book of the same name.

The first half of the book is basically there to show that this plan is based upon science and not somebody's guess at what will work. For example, he shows that the worst part of a bread and butter sandwich is the bread not the butter. The author (a medical doctor and researcher) at times admits that some of the things he talks about are not a sure thing. But, overall it makes sense to me.

It is a lower carb diet that actually allows some grains in the later stages and does not make one feel like a slacker if you eat a peach for dessert. It is however, low on highly processed carbs and, of course, added sugars. And, it is probably higher in fat than current AHA guidelines.

The best thing about the book are the recipes in the back. They show that healthy eating can be tasty and satisfying. But, they are time consuming especially in this day of fast food expectations in the home and outside the home. It's good I am a retired bum who has the time to cook

I have been on my own lower-carb plan for years before following the "Always Hungry" plan. I was down 25 pounds at one point, but have picked up about 8 of those pounds after adding back some carbs including some tasty desserts. (OK, call me a slacker if you wish.) My acid reflux is gone and for the most part I don't need an afternoon nap anymore to make it through the evening. On this plan I seem to be losing some of the weight I gained back.

My overall cholesterol is higher than my MD likes, but my HDL numbers are also high and my Trigs are very low. The HDl/Trig ratio is under 1. That is supposed to be good or so I am told.

This is my story and not a recommendation for what will work for anybody else.

 

[audreyh1]

Do you mean the bread not the butter?

 

[Dash man]

Are you having any side effects from the meds, IMO this doc does not have an open mind...especially about the HDL number. If it were me I'd find a different doctor.

I don't have any side effects from the statin drugs. I'm not sure why you think he doesn't have an open mind and I should look elsewhere. He's very good at listening and explaining his thoughts based on recent studies. He was quick to communicate results of my tests.


Enjoying life!

 

[Chuckanut]

Do you mean the bread not the butter?

Yes. Old habits and beliefs die hard.

 

[HFWR]

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/...heart-problems-may-create-some-research-finds

A large-scale clinical trial found that although niacin slightly improved levels of "good" HDL cholesterol, it didn't seem to benefit cardiovascular health, reports the study in the July 17 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

Side effects included a 55 percent increase in loss of blood sugar control among diabetics, and a 32 percent increase in new diabetes diagnoses, researchers found. Patients also suffered excess bleeding and infections, diarrhea, gout, skin-related effects and liver problems.

My doctor un-prescribed niacin for me because of these study results. It was prescribed to raise my HDL and lower triglycerides. It moved the numbers slightly. My only discernible side-effect was gawd-awful flushing, that I do not miss...

 

[HFWR]

Studies involving cholesterol-lowering drugs show that "just" lowering cholesterol does not improve outcomes. Statins do seem to have an effect, but it doesn't come specifically from altering lipid numbers.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/445150

Hypocholesterolemic drug trials achieved only modest reduction of total cholesterol levels of about 10% compared with a 20% to 30% reduction with the statins. These drugs produce significant unpleasant adverse effects, suggested an increase of noncardiac mortality, and appeared to have no impact on total mortality.

 

[harley]

Niacin Doesn't Reduce Heart Problems, May Create Some, Research Finds – WebMD

My doctor un-prescribed niacin for me because of these study results. It was prescribed to raise my HDL and lower triglycerides. It moved the numbers slightly. My only discernible side-effect was gawd-awful flushing, that I do not miss...

If I go through with dropping the niacin, I won't be missing the flush either. Sometimes DW looks at me and say "your face is purple!" Maybe that's why I thought it was good for me, because it made me miserable.

I've been hesitating dropping the niacin, because it actually me a huge difference for me HDL-wise. From under 25 to ~47 is a like an 85% increase! No amount of exercise and vegetables is going to accomplish that. But really, if it doesn't change the CV situation and has nasty side effects, who cares about HDL? Bye bye niacin.

 

[Fedup]

I don't know what my cholesterol numbers are and neither is my husband. His health has gotten better due to low carb, gluten free diet. He eats eggs and bacon everyday. Steak, lamb, and turkey for protein, no fish ever but he does take fish pills. Lots of fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts. The more we stay away from doctors, the healthier we become.

 

[Dash man]

I don't know what my cholesterol numbers are and neither is my husband. His health has gotten better due to low carb, gluten free diet. He eats eggs and bacon everyday. Steak, lamb, and turkey for protein, no fish ever but he does take fish pills. Lots of fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts. The more we stay away from doctors, the healthier we become.

Be careful on the fish oil pills. They've been linked to increasing risk of prostate cancer.


Enjoying life!

 

[Fedup]

Be careful on the fish oil pills. They've been linked to increasing risk of prostate cancer.


Enjoying life!

Interesting. His parents took them but they didn't have prostate cancer. One had throat cancer because of drinking hot tea. But my husband takes turmeric which should mitigate some of that.
Is that because the fish oil pills are process in China? I checked to make sure mine are processed in the state of Washington.

 

[HFWR]

Be careful on the fish oil pills. They've been linked to increasing risk of prostate cancer.


Enjoying life!

http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cance...l-might-boost-prostate-cancer-risk-study-says

Note the use of "might" and "suggests", though the numbers seem dramatic enough to me to warrant further study.

One expert cautions that these new findings don't show a cause-and-effect relationship between prostate cancer and omega-3 fatty acids.

"All of these studies on associations, which is what this is, are hypothesis-generating because they are looking back in time," said Dr. Anthony D'Amico, chief of radiation oncology at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. "It's not a cause and effect."

The study would have to account for other risk factors for prostate cancer before it could be considered definitive, he said. These include family history, age and race, among others, D'Amico explained.

The more these things are studied, the more skeptical I become with regard to "magic supplementation". Vitamin C, vitamin E, lycopene, resveratrol, fish oil, etc., have been shown to be ineffective, or even harmful, in some cases.

 

[Fedup]

I've heard too much vitamin E is not good.