Cholesterol and diet - You there haha?

[harley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash man I was on niacin and my cardiologist told me to stop immediately. Apparently it can contribute to having a stroke.

That's not accurate at all. Recent studies may have indicated that it doesn't reduce the chance of heart disease or strokes, but I have never seen a study that indicates that it causes strokes, and I read about it a lot. I've considered stopping it because it has other serious side effects, but not that one.

[harley]

You know, the more I read about diabetes and cholesterol, as well as their various treatments, the more I realize the medical profession doesn't have a clue. They grab a symptom and treat the hell out of it, until they realize either the symptom isn't the cause or that the treatment is worse than the symptom. Then they grab another pharmaceutical strand of spaghetti and throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. I think I may stop taking some of my meds, at least the ones that cause me problems or that have serious side effects. My diabetes and blood pressure meds seem to be pretty safe, but the cholesterol side of things is just too unknown and potentially dangerous. Something to seriously think about.

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister How to raise HDL? Not too hard. Exercise, stopping smoking, a little alcohol, reducing sugar intake, losing excess weight, and including a decent quantity of saturated fat in the diet are all good ways.

It may not be too hard for some individuals, but for others it can be extremely difficult regardless of what you do. I suspect some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all. I am one of those and find it almost impossible for me to move above 40 regardless of what I do exercise and diet wise.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all.

Certainly.
It's just one of a great many things that may or may not be "risk markers" and it's definitely important to look at the big picture. That's why I get annoyed at those doctors who focus solely on LDL with what seems like tunnel vision.

[Dash man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by niven LDL below 60? Anything less than 100 is considered optimal. I'd be questioning that. EDIT: Sorry, I've had naturally high cholesterol my whole life (even when in my early 20's and very fit) and even though I've been on a statin for 30 years, I've never been down that low on LDLs. It just seems extreme, but what do I know?

I had a cardiac calcium score of 1036 where a score of 400 is considered high risk. Fortunately the nuclear stress test and carotid ultrasounds I had indicate good blood flow showing the plaque buildup is spread out and not accumulating in one spot creating a blockage requiring intervention. My worst case is a 51% blockage in one part of my carotid. He wants my LDL below 60 as a target and wants my triglycerides lower to prevent problems in the future. An LDL below 100 may be optimal for an average person, but with the above information and a family history of strokes, I'm listening to him. I don't experience and side effects from statins.

Edit: My LDL was already below 100 before he put me on a statin, so the results should be interesting. My triglycerides have always been a little high, so we'll see how that goes.

Enjoying life!

[Dash man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harley That's not accurate at all. Recent studies may have indicated that it doesn't reduce the chance of heart disease or strokes, but I have never seen a study that indicates that it causes strokes, and I read about it a lot. I've considered stopping it because it has other serious side effects, but not that one.

Well, I'll listen to my cardiologist. He also had me drop fish oil supplements because recent studies show a link to prostrate cancer. Since my uncle passed last year from prostate cancer after years on fish oil, I'm following those instructions too.


Enjoying life!

[harley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 It may not be too hard for some individuals, but for others it can be extremely difficult regardless of what you do. I suspect some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all. I am one of those and find it almost impossible for me to move above 40 regardless of what I do exercise and diet wise.

True. If you look at any description of those activities regarding raising HDL you'll see that they can raise it 5-10%. That's great if your HDL is 70. My natural HDL level was always <25, below the lowest measurable amount. Raising it 5-10% wouldn't do diddly. Taking niacin raised it to over 40, which is great. But now I'm reading that raising HDL via niacin doesn't effect heart disease, which was the entire point. Add in the fairly severe side effects, and I'm stuck with a tough choice.

[zinger1457]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash man Well, I'll listen to my cardiologist. He also had me drop fish oil supplements because recent studies show a link to prostrate cancer. Since my uncle passed last year from prostate cancer after years on fish oil, I'm following those instructions too.

According to the recent Frontline story on supplements there seems to be very little solid 'independent' research to back up any supplement claims other than those bought and paid for by the supplement companies. Supplements are unregulated, test of supplements have shown a high percentage don't have the quantity of supplement shown on the label and in some cases don't even contain the supplement.

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harley You know, the more I read about diabetes and cholesterol, as well as their various treatments, the more I realize the medical profession doesn't have a clue. They grab a symptom and treat the hell out of it, until they realize either the symptom isn't the cause or that the treatment is worse than the symptom. Then they grab another pharmaceutical strand of spaghetti and throw it against the wall and see if it sticks.

Yeah, I get that feeling, too. I gave up statins years ago when I had tendonitis so severe that I couldn't lift a spoon to my mouth without agonizing pains near my elbow. That was 6 months after starting Prevastatin. I threw them out. Symptoms went away and have never returned. Yesterday I bicycled 31 miles.

So, now I try to control cholesterol with diet and supplements. With a massive % of the over-50 population on cholesterol-lowering meds and heart disease still prevalent in the population, I'm not convinced that lowering cholesterol solves the problem.

[plsprius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister IMHO your blood cholesterol doesn't really have anything to do with your risk. This was shown quite a while ago. Most heart attack patients' cholesterol levels did not indicate cardiac risk

I'd recommnd reading the rest of that article, which goes on to say:

"While the risk of cardiovascular events increases substantially with LDL levels above 40–60 mg/dL, current national cholesterol guidelines consider LDL levels less than 100–130 mg/dL acceptable for many individuals. The guidelines are thus not effectively identifying the majority of individuals who will develop fatal and non-fatal cardiovascular events, according to the study's authors."

My thinking is that good (i.e., 100 LDL) levels of cholesterol result in typical heart disease and stroke risk--the leading killer of Americans.

Of course, to each his own. YMMV.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 It may not be too hard for some individuals, but for others it can be extremely difficult regardless of what you do. I suspect some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all. I am one of those and find it almost impossible for me to move above 40 regardless of what I do exercise and diet wise.

Right - some people have low HDL due to genetics.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsprius I'd recommnd reading the rest of that article.

Not trying to pick an argument (I'm no expert by any means), but I could counter your point with another quote from the paper in question:

Quote:

It appears that when the total/HDL or LDL/HDL cholesterol ratio is favorable, the level of the lipids that compose the ratio on CHD risk has little influence.

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harley You know, the more I read about diabetes and cholesterol, as well as their various treatments, the more I realize the medical profession doesn't have a clue. They grab a symptom and treat the hell out of it, until they realize either the symptom isn't the cause or that the treatment is worse than the symptom. Then they grab another pharmaceutical strand of spaghetti and throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. I think I may stop taking some of my meds, at least the ones that cause me problems or that have serious side effects. My diabetes and blood pressure meds seem to be pretty safe, but the cholesterol side of things is just too unknown and potentially dangerous. Something to seriously think about.

+1.

The more that's learned it appears that we know nothing. I've noticed how little we know since attempting to lose weight. You can listen to 15 different experts and receive 15 different opinions.

I went off the med for triglycerides without telling my doc. When I saw him 2 months ago, he was all for it. Of course he knows how much weight I've lost and how I'm eating.

I was on atenelol(beta blocker) for my BP for many years, eventually it slowed my heart rate down too low(not sure how low it was 36 in the ER). Switching to lisinopril fixed that. Since losing weight I'm off that too.

[prose3589]

This post is timely for me. I just got results from blood work. Doc is recommending statins. My LDL has gone up since 2013 and during the same time frame I have lost 40 pounds, decreased red meat and fats and seriously upped my exercise. Work out with a trainer 3 times a week and bike and cardio the other days. I am 44 with a horrible family history. I am leaning towards trying the meds but this thread has me a bit nervous. I am going to keep researching. Appreciate everyone's input.


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[NW-Bound]

Guess I am lucky. No problem at all with my blood work. No meds.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Guess I am lucky. No problem at all with my blood work. No meds.

Ditto, and keep up the good work!

[CountryGal]

I think drugs are just a band-aid and don't really cure the underlying problem. I have switched to more whole food plant based diet. It has helped my numbers. The Dr. I follow just came out with a book called The End of Heart Disease (Dr. Fuhrman). He has some compelling case studies in the book.

[prose3589]

CountryGal -if you don't mind me asking- have you eliminated all meat from your diet? Are you totally vegan?


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[Chuckanut]

I have been reading and following the "Always Hungry" plan found in the book of the same name.

The first half of the book is basically there to show that this plan is based upon science and not somebody's guess at what will work. For example, he shows that the worst part of a bread and butter sandwich is the bread not the butter. The author (a medical doctor and researcher) at times admits that some of the things he talks about are not a sure thing. But, overall it makes sense to me.

It is a lower carb diet that actually allows some grains in the later stages and does not make one feel like a slacker if you eat a peach for dessert. It is however, low on highly processed carbs and, of course, added sugars. And, it is probably higher in fat than current AHA guidelines.

The best thing about the book are the recipes in the back. They show that healthy eating can be tasty and satisfying. But, they are time consuming especially in this day of fast food expectations in the home and outside the home. It's good I am a retired bum who has the time to cook

I have been on my own lower-carb plan for years before following the "Always Hungry" plan. I was down 25 pounds at one point, but have picked up about 8 of those pounds after adding back some carbs including some tasty desserts. (OK, call me a slacker if you wish.) My acid reflux is gone and for the most part I don't need an afternoon nap anymore to make it through the evening. On this plan I seem to be losing some of the weight I gained back.

My overall cholesterol is higher than my MD likes, but my HDL numbers are also high and my Trigs are very low. The HDl/Trig ratio is under 1. That is supposed to be good or so I am told.

This is my story and not a recommendation for what will work for anybody else.

[audreyh1]

Do you mean the bread not the butter?