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Old 09-21-2007, 08:28 AM   #41
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How much of that $500 per month represents the transactional costs of having insurance companies in the mix? If we had single payor national health care, we could eliminate all of the profit earned by the insurance companies and some of the administrative costs.
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:08 AM   #42
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How much of that $500 per month represents the transactional costs of having insurance companies in the mix? If we had single payor national health care, we could eliminate all of the profit earned by the insurance companies and some of the administrative costs.
I don't know, but the insurance industry didn't become a major contributor to her campaign for nothing.
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:50 AM   #43
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If everyone must have insurance the only way to enforce it is for the government to supply it (read increase in taxes).
That is not the only way.

In Illinois, the state requires that you have car insurance, but they don't supply it. You go to any independent for-profit insurance company that you chose that does business in the state.

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Old 09-21-2007, 09:55 AM   #44
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How much of that $500 per month represents the transactional costs of having insurance companies in the mix? If we had single payor national health care, we could eliminate all of the profit earned by the insurance companies and some of the administrative costs.
If you really wanted to save some money then make all people in the medical field employees of the federal government. Costs will have no choice but to go down, because instead of the doctors making six figures they will start like any other government employee making 5 figures for several years then as they are promoted start making good money. But then heck why stop at the medical employees and hospitals. Have the government provide all of the education for people working in the medical field, that way future employees won't have the outrageous student loans to repay. This will have a double effect of increasing the number of applicants and it will make the lower pay for those in the field not so painful.
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:59 AM   #45
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That is not the only way.

In Illinois, the state requires that you have car insurance, but they don't supply it. You go to any independent for-profit insurance company that you chose that does business in the state.

-ERD50
You, sir, are correct, but driving is a privilege not a right. Nobody is required to drive. If you are caught driving without insurance you are fined. It has been ruled the health care cannot be denied, so it is in effect a right not a privilege.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:18 AM   #46
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That is not the only way.

In Illinois, the state requires that you have car insurance, but they don't supply it. You go to any independent for-profit insurance company that you chose that does business in the state.
True, but if you really couldn't afford it, you have the option of selling your car and taking the bus. You wouldn't die from it, or suffer grievous harm.

Not quite as easy when faced with a serious illness. Depite being a capitalist at heart on many issues, I've noticed how free-market logic doesn't work quite right for health care: the service in question is one without which you may die soon, or physically suffer dearly, the purveyors of this product can't, shouldn't, and usually won't refuse to provide it even when the customer can't pay for it (run that one by the auto insurance carriers), prices are regulated already, and third party intermediaries are consuming a third of all costs of the system.

I understand why you mentioned it, but the analogy may not be optimal.

The plans being proposed should be interesting.
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As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:53 PM   #47
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You wouldn't die from it, or suffer grievous harm.
Unless you walk in Pinellas county.
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:23 PM   #48
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You, sir, are correct, but driving is a privilege not a right. Nobody is required to drive.
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T

I understand why you mentioned it, but the analogy may not be optimal.
OK, there are gaps in the analogy. I guess I was looking at it from the standpoint that the gov't could provide the insurance money for those who can't afford it. Those people could then go out and purchase insurance from any registered company.

In that way, the gov't isn't actually supplying the insurance to those who can't afford it, they are supplying the money to buy the insurance.

I'm not saying that is necessarily good/bad, just responding to the comment that the 'If everyone must have insurance the only way to enforce it is for the government to supply it '.

It might seem like semantics, but in one case, the person has the choice of insurers, in the other, they must accept the gov't plan. Devil's in the details, but other things being equal I'd rather see the money doled out and let companies compete for their dollar.

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Old 09-21-2007, 05:03 PM   #49
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I seems to me we are living in an increasingly complex society. It takes a more educated individual to tackle just about everything when planning these days. Affording retirement requires more responsibility. This also applies to understanding mortgages and other Credit vehicles. Health insurance is no different. If it is provided without responsibility to even some there is no incentive to utilize it wisely. We need to make everyone more educated in making choices and priorizing health choices in their list of what they value most . Choice ? Low Cost ? Predictable cost ?

I do not want the government making those choices for the vast majority. I do see a role in government placing rules on those who can not or will not make those choices for themselves. If I am going to be taxed or otherwise pay for someone else's care I want it provided in a compassionate economical manner - and with strings attached to motivate those who are able to get off the dole.

I fear Hillary in general - I lived in Arkansas in the early 90's and saw what she did for the education system there . I also have the skin crawly perception that she loathes all the little people who need to be "cared for . " One aspect of her plan sparks a red light for me :

["To pay for her plan, Clinton said the tax cuts for Americans making $250,000 that were enacted under President Bush would be allowed to expire."]

Too many government plans - that at first "soak the rich" have unintended consequences - and with inflation snag those who never knew they were rich! In 18 years with 4% inflation 250K is the equivalent of 125K

I would like to see heath insurance evolve away from employers- I would be better for our business competition. I could support tax incentives to encourage coverage - the more that are covered the fewer that would need government support. Selected by the individual to meet the coverage they desire / require from a pool created to provide stability in cost. In these pools we need to differentiate lifestyle / choice issues that motivate good health habits while not penalizing those who have not done well in the genetic lottery. That admititly would be a tough one.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:51 PM   #50
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I trust Hillary with this issue more then any of the other candidates simply because she did commit to doing it when her husband was in office(remember how she got booted)...now people are crying!...well, if she wanted to do it when she had so much opposition, how much more committed will she be now that pretty much everyone is screaming for something to be done. And how can we say we can't afford it?...perhaps if we let seeeeeeee cut from some where else...let's see...how about getting out of a war that has nothing to do with what happened in 9/11 and where things over there have gone from bad to worse. And have any of you seen how much we spend on that on a dailyyyyyyy basis?.....how can we allow this...we can't spend for our own people's health, yet we are bringing "freedom, democracy" to another country. What ever happened to "first get one's home in order" ? Secondly, cut costs. How can a medical procedure that costs X amount of dollars somewhere overseas costs here 5-25 times more. Let's get real with our selves. And as for higher taxes, I say "bring it on" if it means every US citizen covered...so what if we have to sacrifice some...it is a cause worth sacrificing!! One's health should not be considered a luxury, but a human right.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:24 PM   #51
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Another thread resurrected from the dead...
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