|
Cognitive decline and finances - how to trust an outside person?
06-19-2017, 10:36 AM
|
#1
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 55
|
Cognitive decline and finances - how to trust an outside person?
I've been thinking about what elders do when they lose their cognitive skills and can not handle their own finances anymore while living at home or anywhere for that matter, especially when they don't have anyone trustworthy in their life.
DH and I only have each other...no kids, no trusting/loyal family members including nieces/nephews, and friends are our age or older. I'm a guarded person by nature. So, I wonder, if I outlive DH or vice versa, (or perhaps we both lose our marbles at the same time), who does one have in place or hire enough to trust that this hired person would not take advantage of our finances for their own personal gain? An attorney, an accountant, an elder care service - all of these can potentially steal from their "clients" without ever knowing due to cognitive decline . What does one do in this case?
As aside note: Due to the lack knowing who we'd want to handle our estate affairs, we still don't have a Will/estate docs, so we can't use this "unknown" person for the above situation - in case you were wondering. We know we need to get this don ASAP, but, without the right person...
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
06-19-2017, 10:51 AM
|
#2
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,599
|
I chose several people as I am in a situation similar to you and your husband.
* a trusted friend for medical power of attorney
* a different trusted friend for financial power of attorney
* a local estate services firm as executor of my estate
This is a leap of faith (leap of trust?) you need to make. Keeping financial affairs out of the medical picture was important to me. Yes I do have family, but none that I would want involved in settling my estate/making medical decisions/handling money (because they are beneficiaries), and yes it will cost more.
BUT there is that independent estate services firm keeping track of liquidating and paying out to the beneficiaries of my estate. The attorney who writes your will generally cannot act to probate your will, and my attorney recommended finding an estate services firm to act as the executor in my situation.
Spend a little time understanding what your state mandates in terms of these power of attorneys documents. It's worth the time with an estate attorney just to understand options. My take was they didn't expect quick decisions from you, but would work with you to get to your final instructions.
- Rita
__________________
Only got A dimple, would have preferred 2!
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 11:33 AM
|
#3
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 37,931
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej
I've been thinking about what elders do when they lose their cognitive skills and can not handle their own finances anymore while living at home or anywhere for that matter, especially when they don't have anyone trustworthy in their life.
DH and I only have each other...no kids, no trusting/loyal family members including nieces/nephews, and friends are our age or older. I'm a guarded person by nature. So, I wonder, if I outlive DH or vice versa, (or perhaps we both lose our marbles at the same time), who does one have in place or hire enough to trust that this hired person would not take advantage of our finances for their own personal gain? An attorney, an accountant, an elder care service - all of these can potentially steal from their "clients" without ever knowing due to cognitive decline . What does one do in this case?
As aside note: Due to the lack knowing who we'd want to handle our estate affairs, we still don't have a Will/estate docs, so we can't use this "unknown" person for the above situation - in case you were wondering. We know we need to get this don ASAP, but, without the right person...
Thoughts?
|
This is something we have to work through too. I have younger siblings, but are they younger enough? One has a wife who is 20 years my junior, and maybe she would be up to handling some of it in a few years, or helping supervise, but currently they live on another continent!
I am 57, DH 62. So this is not a major concern yet, but by my age 75 I will be working hard to figure this out. I do plan to simplify my investments as much as possible so that we can let our investments ride.
I notice Fidelity Investments occasionally offer advice or if we need references for estate planning or CPA or whatever, and at some point I will be availing myself of whatever additional help they can provide. And I imagine we'll be hiring some professionals to help with taxes and perhaps even accounting such as bill pay. It's going to be some work to vet all this stuff.
We also want a "professional" executor to help with the estate after we're both gone with one or more of my siblings involved (as co-executor?).
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 11:52 AM
|
#4
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 158
|
Interesting question. My FIL passed recently and I set up all my MIL's bills to pay automatically from her bank account. She was very grateful as she never has done the finances and is getting older too. I love this kind of stuff so I would love to help people out (she has mentioned several of her friends that need help)but I have heard so many stories of the elderly accusing their own children of stealing from them. I wonder if you set as much up as possible to pay automatically now so that you will need a lot less help later.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 11:56 AM
|
#5
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,838
|
This is a good question. Since you have no trusted/loyal family or anyone im interested in following this thread. I know you dont want the courts to step in. Pick a relative that you feel is the least crooked.
__________________
Withdrawal Rate currently zero, Pension 137 % of our spending, Wasted 5 years of my prime working extra for a safe withdrawal rate. I can live like a King for a year, or a Prince for the rest of my life. I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 11:57 AM
|
#6
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,838
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrophyWife
Interesting question. My FIL passed recently and I set up all my MIL's bills to pay automatically from her bank account. She was very grateful as she never has done the finances and is getting older too. I love this kind of stuff so I would love to help people out (she has mentioned several of her friends that need help)but I have heard so many stories of the elderly accusing their own children of stealing from them. I wonder if you set as much up as possible to pay automatically now so that you will need a lot less help later.
|
Your a trusted DIL , the OP has no one like you
__________________
Withdrawal Rate currently zero, Pension 137 % of our spending, Wasted 5 years of my prime working extra for a safe withdrawal rate. I can live like a King for a year, or a Prince for the rest of my life. I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 12:13 PM
|
#7
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,715
|
We're up against the same issues. Although we have some family left, we don't necessarily trust them - not because we think they would be unethical, but because they have never been able to follow our wishes even while we are here. Too many stories to tell, but they have proven they can't be trusted. Still love them and don't think they would "cheat." Just don't think they would follow our wishes. YMMV
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -
Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 03:12 PM
|
#8
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,134
|
IIRC, there are several people here of 'advanced and honorable' years who have put most of their money into the Pssssstt...Wellesly fund. Presumably, every quarter or month they withdraw some or all of the earnings and spend it to maintain their lifestyle.
Simple. Low-cost. Conservative. No guarantees, of course.
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 03:45 PM
|
#9
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,960
|
I'll just toss this out in case someone can use it or get an idea from it.
When I feel myself losing interest or get that vague feeling of not being able to do it anymore (like I got with bar fights about 20 yrs ago) I plan to roll half of everything into some kind of index or large cap value fund and the other half into a money market fund. Too easy. That's pretty much how I have been handling things all along anyway but with some dynamic intervention. Ten years from now I doubt I will be able to benefit from any dynamic intervention. To put a time stamp on this, later this Summer I will turn 60.
All the money accounts are set to "transfer on death" to various familial remnants in a hierarchy of who I think can use the money most.
I have very little other stuff. A small house, a small car, and very little stuff inside the house. In the next few weeks I plan to see a lawyer to rig up some kind of mechanism that, when I die, will kick in and offload the house, the car and the stuff and pay any residual bills I leave behind. I do not want any family grappling with these trivial issues since they will be in the same stage of life as I will be. ie Old and likely sick
I do NOT know how I can handle the "Medical Power of Attorney" thing. The end. I see it as an issue with no technical solution. Force Majeure. Take my chances.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 04:03 PM
|
#10
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 645
|
I have a trusted former Co-w*rker and a broker friend in line to help DW with finances when I can't do it any more. I have known both for 20+ years, and have complete faith in them (they also will act as a check on each other!). This was a great concern of mine as my DW is having emotional/mental issues and the stress on me affects my memory at times. Knowing there is someone in line to handle things is comforting to me.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 06:40 PM
|
#11
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,655
|
We have similar concerns about aging. We have everything set up already for an early death situation but what concerns me more is gradual decline. We have an FA and a CPA we trust to manage our investments and taxes, respectively. However I'm thinking about the day-to-day things that often become issues. For example - paying bills, managing one's healthcare and making appropriate decisions, having an advocate in a health crisis, etc. We don't have a good solution to these concerns. Also our doctors, CPA, & FA are all around our age so the people who take over when they can't do their roles anymore may not be people we trust.
It really is hard to age well without some kind of support. Given societal trends such as people having fewer children, families being more mobile, etc., we are hoping a good solution will eventually emerge. We do have one niece and one nephew who seem to be responsible young adults but they live across the country so we don't see them often.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 08:07 PM
|
#12
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 3,163
|
I had somewhat of a problem with getting my will, estate, and medical directives completed. I was new to the area and did not know any lawyers. I went to the local Senior Law Day at the Senior Center. (I was much younger than most of the others attending the talks.) I listened to several lawyers with expertise in different areas of senior law which by itself made the effort worthwhile. One lawyer struck a cord with me as someone I would be comfortable with in doing my will and other documents. I set an appointment with her and went over all the necessary documents and what was important to me. I reviewed the documents she created and made comments and suggested changes. She either made the changes or explained why an item should stay as it was to my satisfaction. It worked quite well for me and I now have all my documents completed with a plan for my future. In my case, I have a daughter who will take over when necessary so I can't help in that respect. A lawyer who specializes in senior law should be able to give you some worthwhile advice in how to approach your issues in your state of residence and create the documents you need.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 08:11 PM
|
#13
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,000
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit
I was new to the area and did not know any lawyers.
|
I had Jimmy McGill do our wills. Seems like a really nice guy.
__________________
Numbers is hard
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 08:19 PM
|
#14
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 3,361
|
Actually from the experience of my Grandparents a good bank trust department can do this, and they are at least examined by regulators. In my grandparents case they made managed the sale of the house, paid all the bills etc. In general IMHO every will should provide as a final choice for executor any bank trust department It will cost more but the bank can run the trust for incapacitated folks as well.
|
|
|
06-19-2017, 08:27 PM
|
#15
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 4,032
|
My oldest child is set up to be an executor because she lives nearby. For investment, I will move them to all mutual funds. No more ETFs. I don't know if my husband know how to sell them even.
|
|
|
06-20-2017, 01:12 PM
|
#16
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,715
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
I had Jimmy McGill do our wills. Seems like a really nice guy.
|
So far, I like BETTER CALL SAUL even better than BREAKING BAD - which I really liked. YMMV
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -
Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|