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Old 12-02-2011, 07:55 PM   #21
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AFIK apple seeds contain arsenic. Guess this means they grind up the seeds as well when making juice. Think of it as roughage.
No, that is cyanide in apple seeds. Mmmmmmmm cyanide, much tastier than arsenic.

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hmmm, maybe a little arsenic over time builds up tolerance? So when the beloved slips you a lot, will be immune.
Actually yes. Look back at my earlier link on the 'arsenic eaters', they built up their tolerance over time and ate lethal doses - supposedly to help with high altitude adaption.


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Old 12-02-2011, 07:58 PM   #22
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Got it.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:06 PM   #23
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Hmm....I was just hefting 2 big bottles of apple juice the other day.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:14 PM   #24
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Seems Dr Besser went a bit over the top in criticizing Dr Oz, but just the other day admitted on TV that Dr Oz was right. This was the GMA piece you referenced, but I have not been able to find a link to Besser's TV appearance the other day admitting Oz was right.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2...owdown-on-gma/
Well, I actually did happen to catch both segments when they aired (waddya do all day?). I listened again to the original you just linked, and I'll stand by Dr Bresser.

Oz dances around it with red herrings, but it is true that he didn't have the labs test for both organic and inorganic arsenic. They just tested for 'total arsenic'. I read the FDA letters and other sources when this news hit - the concern is the inorganic type. But the industry standard is to do an initial test for total arsenic, because that is fast and cheap. If that is high, then they run the further test to check the breakdown of the two.

OZ dances by saying there are some 'indications' that total can be bad, bla, bla and goes on to say those studies showed it was safe, but bla,bla, bla, there are 'suspicians' that it could do this or that. But he doesn't come out and admit that they never tested for inorganic arsenic. He red herrings it by saying the FDA test for total initially (they do, as I stated above) - but that doesn't justify NOT testing for inorganic arsenic, and claiming that there are dangers.

I don't think Dr Brenner should have apologized. It was bad science by OZ, and he just got lucky. It's like saying that buying lottery tickets is good financial advice because you know someone who won.

Brenner could have said it is good that this came to our attention, but it was still bad science. Oz should have kept quiet until he had the inorganic tests done.

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But yes from my perspective, I would be more concerned about the sugars in these juices than the arsenic levels. Also, I'm not sure anyone should put too much faith in anything the FDA says either.

This is the biggest issue that I see. Brenner was going by FDA reports/data, and now Consumer Reports seems to show the FDA wasn't catching the levels. I want to hear the FDA response to that!

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Old 12-02-2011, 08:27 PM   #25
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The two doctors shook hands on ABC nightly news. I guess Dr. Oz got slammed pretty badly by the other doc.
Now, what about morning orange juice? I get about 6oz each morning. Will that be the next bad thing?
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:02 PM   #26
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The two doctors shook hands on ABC nightly news. I guess Dr. Oz got slammed pretty badly by the other doc.
Now, what about morning orange juice? I get about 6oz each morning. Will that be the next bad thing?
It's just as bad. Sugar water with a touch of vitamins and fiber. I used to buy oranges by the box and squeeze some each day.

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Old 12-02-2011, 09:21 PM   #27
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So, what do you drink? Maybe tomato juice? Grapefruit juice?
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:33 PM   #28
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So, what do you drink? Maybe tomato juice? Grapefruit juice?
Mostly water, coffee (black), sometimes tea (no milk or sugar) . Beer or wine with dinner. Occasionally sparkling water with a splash of some fruit juice or concentrated fruit flavoring, or just a squeeze of lemon or lime.

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Old 12-02-2011, 10:23 PM   #29
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So, what do you drink? Maybe tomato juice? Grapefruit juice?
Water most of the time, but also coffee at breakfast, tea sometimes at lunch or dinner, beer sometimes at dinner or for the fun of it, and a glass of red wine at dinner several times a week.
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:33 AM   #30
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So, what do you drink? Maybe tomato juice? Grapefruit juice?
I drink diet soda, coffee, and less often, light beer and wine.

I'm not convinced that the tiny amounts of sweetener (sucralose is 600 times sweeter than sugar, so you don't need much) pose a significant health risk.

I know it seems weird, but with my bacon and eggs I have diluted diet orange soda. It's not much different from Tang, which no longer offers a sugar free version. it was a bit of an adjustment, but I no longer miss my OJ.

Tomato juice and grapefruit juice also have significant amounts of sugar.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:00 AM   #31
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I just find it difficult to except that a processed drink like a diet cola is better for you than a natural juice, poisons notwithstanding. And has sugar become a new poison? What's that about?

Tight
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:49 AM   #32
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I just find it difficult to except that a processed drink like a diet cola is better for you than a natural juice, poisons notwithstanding. And has sugar become a new poison? What's that about?

Tight
I don't know if a diet drink is 'better' for you. But I'd say that a full sugar soda is not much different from a 'natural' fruit juice. They are both pretty much 'empty' calories.

I don't think of sugar as a poison, but it is a lot of calories without much else, and not filling, so I think it tends to lead to weight gain in many people.

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Old 12-03-2011, 11:54 AM   #33
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I just find it difficult to except that a processed drink like a diet cola is better for you than a natural juice, poisons notwithstanding.
Not drinking 6 diet sodas a day is probably a good thing, but replacing them with 6 glasses of fruit juice is not a leap into healthier eating. Six glasses of a sugary drink are six glasses of sugary drink regardless if the source is a barrel of oranges, or the Coca Cola Bottling Plant.
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And has sugar become a new poison? What's that about?
It's the quantity we consume that is the main problem. The amount of sugar consumed by the average American has seen a phenomenal increase over time. But the debate also includes a discussion of the belief that sugar from fructose is a bigger danger than sucrose.

Nice article summing much of the debate on the danger of too much sugar consumption, with additional discussion of fructose vs sucrose, is found here at the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/ma...pagewanted=all
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:18 PM   #34
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Getting back to the apple juice issue...

Odds are the apples are washed, then crushed whole. If arsenic is present in apple seeds they would be broken in the crushing process contaminating the juice. The arsenic may be present in the seeds as a reproductive defense mechanism for apples, discouraging birds and ground critters from eating to many of them. Amazing, inventive, biology.
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:27 PM   #35
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If the 10ppb is so dangerous, I wonder why the EPA level was allowed to continue at 50ppb for almost 4 years? Why did Dr Oz use the drinking water standard of 10ppb when the juice standard is 23ppb? Trace amounts of arsenic are undoubtedly in other food products as well given the sources. Our tax dollars at work...
Arsenic in Drinking Water | Arsenic | US EPA

But this is the funny one from the Chicago Trib Whatever health risk fruit juice, drinking water present, the risk is from chronic exposure, not acute. So the concentration (which is what this is all based on) isn't much of a factor at these levels, it's how much and how often you drink.
Because that was the lower limit they could test for. When test procedures got better, they lowered the limit. Just because.

Do you know how much arsenic is in the drinking water that the hippies/Hollywood stars want you to dilute your poisonous apple juice with?

We are talking ppb [parts per billion, folks] here. How much apple juice do you think you can drink?
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:31 PM   #36
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No, that is cyanide in apple seeds. Mmmmmmmm cyanide, much tastier than arsenic.
I think it is cyanogen, like in almonds[?]. It hydrolyzes into HCN and glucose, IIRC. And, yes, I am certain it tastes much better.
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