Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-08-2015, 06:58 AM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
How do you go about negotiating dental rates with a new dentist? Its not like they have a price list on the wall and then you can ask for a discount.

Lets say you find out you need 2 teeth pulled. Do you ask how much and when he tells you its $400, you then ask for a discount? I assume he already knows you are a cash customer when yu filled out all the forms.

Also, whats a decent price just for a routine cleaning / exam with a new dentist (no insurance)?
__________________

__________________
utrecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-08-2015, 08:14 AM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
Also, whats a decent price just for a routine cleaning / exam with a new dentist (no insurance)?
We routinely get $99 new patient special cards in the mail, but they seem to come from the more expensive dentists.

I did the insurance analysis as compared to a discount program (Aetna vital savings). Prices around here are all over the place, and using the price from the discount plan made it easier to run the numbers. The prices vary by what the dentist agrees to, so there's not a "price list", but if you look around, you can find prices, just to give you an idea. Here's one: http://universaldentalplan.com/wp-co...-May-20141.pdf

What put me off of the insurance was that if you DID manage to get into the territory where you were ahead of the cost of the insurance, then it was limited to some fairly low dollars, and you start paying 100% again.
__________________

__________________
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 08:50 AM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
As an FYI.... I was looking at getting dental insurance for next year and was going through some of the policies offered this year... a couple did have waiting periods, but they were waived if you paid the full year premium up front....

The problem with dental is that there are many things that you can wait on.... so you sign up for dental insurance, get teeth fixed and then cancel policy... they are out then.... and I bet more people do this than do it with health insurance...
OK, I hadn't thought about the early cancellation issue. I'd had continuous dental insurance and 4X-yearly checkups for years and I figured they were trying to protect against people not buying insurance till they had an expensive problem, and I was clearly not in that category. Yes, I can see people buying coverage and cancelling, especially if they max out their policy limits.
__________________
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 09:20 AM   #44
Recycles dryer sheets
Theseus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Anything serious like root canal and periodontal surgery are covered by health insurance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporateburnout View Post
Root canals covered by health insurance in the US ?
Had some recent periodontal surgery and checked the fine print in my HI policy, unless resulting from injury, or to remove tumors/cysts, it is not covered, albeit with some other even finer print detailing exclusions to the exclusions.

I agree in regards to dental insurance not being worth it. Even when I was employed, the subsidized premium cost seemed to be pretty much a wash. In a past discussion on the subject, a point was made regarding the benefit of paying a lower negotiated rate if insurance was in place, but I'm not sure of that being of much value either. I have brought up the possibility of paying a discounted rate as a cash/retired/no insurance customer with the front desk people at two different providers, each returned a blank stare or no response - next time I'll ask that question of the dentist. My guess is since these are both practices involving multiple partners getting one to agree to that will be like--pulling teeth--as they don't want to be seen as taking profits from their cronies.
__________________
Theseus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 11:03 AM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,290
Let's just start by saying that dental insurance is not really insurance... as others have mentioned, if you have a really bad problem and need implants, most of that money (if not all) is coming out of your pocket....


But, I find it interesting how many people say they do not buy it because their premium is higher than the costs... well, heck, that is what usually happens with insurance....

I do not think I have a single year where I got back more money from my health insurance than I paid in...

Only once did I get back more money on my auto insurance than I paid in... but then they jacked my rate up and I have calculated they will get back 50% of what I was paid for my totaled car....

I have submitted one claim for homeowners... and barely got back my premium for that year... (do not know if rates are going to go up as it was this year for the claim)....

We buy insurance for potential losses that we could not afford... we hope to not use that insurance... and are happy when we do not.... (especially life insurance).... I do not see why dental is any different.... (yes, I know that almost everybody here can afford any potential loss... I am just throwing this out as a general comment)...


As I have seen, the amount paid for dental insurance is basically within what I would pay for just normal checkups, the extra they have to pay every once in awhile is icing on the cake for me... yes, I have gotten the $1K max a few times, so I am good with what I get in this agreement....

I cannot say if I would say the same if it were only me or just me and DW... but I do remember back when I worked it was worth it, but I do not know if I actually paid for 100% of the premium....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 12:05 PM   #46
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 473
I use a discount dental plan here in Arizona that costs $59/yr. I have a dentist that I like but my teeth are in good shape so I'm not sure how good the "discount" prices are for more involved procedures are. Others may wish to comment as the plan posts its charges: Preventative Dental Services, Cosmetic Dentistry Coverage, Extraction Coverage, Restorative Dental Plans
__________________
Ian S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 12:30 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,739
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Because dental expenses are a sure thing, I think most plans are just a budgeting process so you pay for everything in the years when you don't make claims. So aside from the profit margin for the company, you are just getting your own money back.

Pharmacy is also a bottomless pit. Most prescribed drugs are not needed long term. A good example is Prilosec, a permanent solution to a temporary problem!
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 08:44 PM   #48
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
How do you go about negotiating dental rates with a new dentist? Its not like they have a price list on the wall and then you can ask for a discount.

Lets say you find out you need 2 teeth pulled. Do you ask how much and when he tells you its $400, you then ask for a discount? I assume he already knows you are a cash customer when yu filled out all the forms.

Also, whats a decent price just for a routine cleaning / exam with a new dentist (no insurance)?
I just got an EOB for my son's teeth cleaning last month.

Cleaning before discount: $70. After discount $48.93. Cost to me, $0.

So I would expect cleaning, without insurance to be in the $70-100 range. (Not including x-rays.)

As far as having teeth pulled - I would ask for a quote prior - even with insurance... Having gone through this with both sons. (Orthodontist wanted some teeth pulled prior to treatment starting to make room in their crowded mouths.) At the time my sons had different dentists - one was a pediatric specialist (the son with the crappy teeth). Prices were similar, but the pediatric dentist had some anesthesia that wasn't covered, so I had to pay extra for that. It was 2 years ago - IIRC it was around $150-200 after insurance paid.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 7%, rental income 18%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 07:02 PM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,556
I had my dental appt with the Prosthodontic Graduate Clinic today. They will have additional dentists looking at things to make a game plan on what they will be doing. The dentist that I saw today gave me rough figures so far. He thinks that if they do partials and the additional things (new crowns, etc) it will cost between $6,000-$10,000. If they do implants and the additional things, it will cost between $15,000-$20,000. Maybe I should not have quit my part-time job 5/15/15. Maybe I need to look at the dental insurance again, but I don't think it will help much, since WVU dental school is out of network. I asked if there was a discount for paying cash and he said there was not.

The good part was that when I told my DH, he told me to do whatever I wanted. He told me not to think about it too much, because I always tend to go the cheaper route. I go back for a 2 hour appt on 10/26/15, which is our 43rd wedding anniversary. DH has a follow-up appt after cataract surgery on that day. Happy Wedding Anniversary to us-we know how to celebrate!
__________________
Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 07:34 PM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
I had my dental appt with the Prosthodontic Graduate Clinic today. They will have additional dentists looking at things to make a game plan on what they will be doing. The dentist that I saw today gave me rough figures so far. He thinks that if they do partials and the additional things (new crowns, etc) it will cost between $6,000-$10,000. If they do implants and the additional things, it will cost between $15,000-$20,000. Maybe I should not have quit my part-time job 5/15/15. Maybe I need to look at the dental insurance again, but I don't think it will help much, since WVU dental school is out of network. I asked if there was a discount for paying cash and he said there was not.

The good part was that when I told my DH, he told me to do whatever I wanted. He told me not to think about it too much, because I always tend to go the cheaper route. I go back for a 2 hour appt on 10/26/15, which is our 43rd wedding anniversary. DH has a follow-up appt after cataract surgery on that day. Happy Wedding Anniversary to us-we know how to celebrate!
Dental insurance won't help you much for this extensive work. Most insurance policies have a $1500 annual benefits. I am in process of an implant of one tooth at a cost of $7000 including the crown with my insurance covering only $1000.
__________________
Corporateburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 07:50 PM   #51
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Senator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 3,068
The VA has a dental plan I am going to get for ~$20 a month. It covers Diagnostic and Preventive with $0 deductible.

The rest at 50% with a $1,000 max benefit.

Plan Comparison | Delta Dental VADIP Dental Program
__________________
FIRE no later than 7/5/2016 at 56 (done), securing '16 401K match (done), getting '15 401K match (done), LTI Bonus (done), Perf bonus (done), maxing out 401K (done), picking up 1,000 hours to get another year of pension (done), July 1st benefits (vacation day, healthcare) (done), July 4th holiday. 0 days left. (done) OFFICIALLY RETIRED 7/5/2016!!
Senator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 08:30 PM   #52
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
For the most part I never found individual dental to be worth it. You may pay $30-35 per person per month, with a $1000-1500 annual max. Sure, if you need crowns and fillings and root canals every year that's worth it, but if that's the case you have other problems.

Once becoming eligible for group insurance through FEDVIP in May I started on it again. For about $26 per month (for me, DW may or may not go on my medical next year pending choices in the next month or so) I get pretty good insurance that pays 100% for all preventative stuff and has a $10,000 annual maximum. As I have a loose front tooth (and have for years) that may need an implant or a bridge fairly soon (paid 50% in network), it seems like a roughly break-even premium if all I have is cleaning, X-rays and exam is worth doing just in case I need that significant work.

But most individual dental policies, for most people, are probably not a great buy, especially with a $1000-1500 maximum annual benefit in most cases.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 10:16 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporateburnout View Post
Dental insurance won't help you much for this extensive work. Most insurance policies have a $1500 annual benefits. I am in process of an implant of one tooth at a cost of $7000 including the crown with my insurance covering only $1000.
Oh my, I would really be in trouble if 1 implant including crown cost $7000.00. I guess my price is not so bad. He told me that 1 implant including crown would be $2700.00.
__________________
Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 10:28 PM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,988
For folks who need expensive dental procedures, there are places for dental tourism.

I once had a roommate who went to Costa Rica for her mouthful of dental work. That practice even offered an inexpensive insurance policy (~$100-150, iirc) that would cover the cost of a return visit for adjustments or if anything more major was required. She did get and use that policy. She had a 'Hollywood smile' when she was done.

The dentists that took care of her were a father and son team who had been educated in the U.S., most everyone in the practice spoke English, they had a small boutique hotel next door for their American patients, and it was all set up so patients could go back to their rooms between various procedures, etc.

Here's an example of a website for one of the dental practices in Cost Rica (that has gotten a lot of U.S. press apparently): http://www.mezadentalcare.com/

omni
__________________
omni550 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 11:22 PM   #55
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
The VA has a dental plan I am going to get for ~$20 a month. It covers Diagnostic and Preventive with $0 deductible.

The rest at 50% with a $1,000 max benefit.

Plan Comparison | Delta Dental VADIP Dental Program
I have a MetLife Dental plan. $29/mth premium for 2 x cleanings, x-rays and check ups and I get a $1250 annual coverage amount.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:07 AM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
Oh my, I would really be in trouble if 1 implant including crown cost $7000.00. I guess my price is not so bad. He told me that 1 implant including crown would be $2700.00.
That's a real bargain price. Seriously.
__________________
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:11 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
That's a real bargain price. Seriously.
+1
__________________
Corporateburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:17 AM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,900
Wow, I should say so. Implant + crown, including all the follow-up visits, for $2700 would be a bargain with insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
That's a real bargain price. Seriously.
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:21 AM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by omni550 View Post
For folks who need expensive dental procedures, there are places for dental tourism.

I once had a roommate who went to Costa Rica for her mouthful of dental work. That practice even offered an inexpensive insurance policy (~$100-150, iirc) that would cover the cost of a return visit for adjustments or if anything more major was required. She did get and use that policy. She had a 'Hollywood smile' when she was done.

The dentists that took care of her were a father and son team who had been educated in the U.S., most everyone in the practice spoke English, they had a small boutique hotel next door for their American patients, and it was all set up so patients could go back to their rooms between various procedures, etc.

Here's an example of a website for one of the dental practices in Cost Rica (that has gotten a lot of U.S. press apparently): Dental Implants and Cosmetic Dentistry in Costa Rica, Meza Dental

omni
For an implant it is be impractical to do. I started the process of the implant back in February and so far I've had 5 visits to the surgeon for the extraction, bone graft, implant, X rays and checkups with three more scheduled before completion in January.

I also prefer to be treated by my dentist/surgeon in case of any problems occur in the future.

For me the peace of mine is worth the cost.
__________________
Corporateburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 08:16 AM   #60
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporateburnout View Post
For an implant it is be impractical to do. I started the process of the implant back in February and so far I've had 5 visits to the surgeon for the extraction, bone graft, implant, X rays and checkups with three more scheduled before completion in January.

I also prefer to be treated by my dentist/surgeon in case of any problems occur in the future.

For me the peace of mind is worth the cost.
I've had 4 implants and the oral surgeon did the extraction, bone graft and placement of the implant at the same time. They still waited 2 months for it to heal before putting on a permanent cap and another 2 months before the prosthetic tooth went on. (To those of you not familiar with the terminology, the "implant" is just the titanium plate with a threaded hole that they embed in the jawbone.) I agree with you, though. I have an oral surgeon who's fantastic and a dentist who works well with him. If I need implants again, I won't mess with what works.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Let's just start by saying that dental insurance is not really insurance... as others have mentioned, if you have a really bad problem and need implants, most of that money (if not all) is coming out of your pocket....


But, I find it interesting how many people say they do not buy it because their premium is higher than the costs... well, heck, that is what usually happens with insurance....
Huge difference. I've never made a Homeowners claim and haven't made an Auto claim for at least 15 years, but the potential amount they'll pay if Something Really Bad happens is more than I want to pay out of pocket. The most that dental insurance pays, no matter how bad things get, is capped at $1,500 per year, more or less. I'll go without the dental coverage.
__________________

__________________
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dental implant and dental coverage fh2000 Health and Early Retirement 31 08-30-2014 01:49 PM
Dental Insurance easysurfer Health and Early Retirement 26 01-30-2010 09:00 AM
Negotiated dental rates without insurance free4now FIRE and Money 5 10-16-2007 08:34 AM
Are root canals worth the dental insurance? Nords FIRE and Money 41 09-11-2006 08:11 PM
Dental Insurance? jj Life after FIRE 19 11-22-2005 01:08 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.