Dental Insurance

[utrecht]

How do you go about negotiating dental rates with a new dentist? Its not like they have a price list on the wall and then you can ask for a discount.

Lets say you find out you need 2 teeth pulled. Do you ask how much and when he tells you its $400, you then ask for a discount? I assume he already knows you are a cash customer when yu filled out all the forms.

Also, whats a decent price just for a routine cleaning / exam with a new dentist (no insurance)?

[sengsational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by utrecht Also, whats a decent price just for a routine cleaning / exam with a new dentist (no insurance)?

We routinely get $99 new patient special cards in the mail, but they seem to come from the more expensive dentists.

I did the insurance analysis as compared to a discount program (Aetna vital savings). Prices around here are all over the place, and using the price from the discount plan made it easier to run the numbers. The prices vary by what the dentist agrees to, so there's not a "price list", but if you look around, you can find prices, just to give you an idea. Here's one: http://universaldentalplan.com/wp-co...-May-20141.pdf

What put me off of the insurance was that if you DID manage to get into the territory where you were ahead of the cost of the insurance, then it was limited to some fairly low dollars, and you start paying 100% again.

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud As an FYI.... I was looking at getting dental insurance for next year and was going through some of the policies offered this year... a couple did have waiting periods, but they were waived if you paid the full year premium up front.... The problem with dental is that there are many things that you can wait on.... so you sign up for dental insurance, get teeth fixed and then cancel policy... they are out then.... and I bet more people do this than do it with health insurance...

OK, I hadn't thought about the early cancellation issue. I'd had continuous dental insurance and 4X-yearly checkups for years and I figured they were trying to protect against people not buying insurance till they had an expensive problem, and I was clearly not in that category. Yes, I can see people buying coverage and cancelling, especially if they max out their policy limits.

[Theseus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Anything serious like root canal and periodontal surgery are covered by health insurance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporateburnout Root canals covered by health insurance in the US ?

Had some recent periodontal surgery and checked the fine print in my HI policy, unless resulting from injury, or to remove tumors/cysts, it is not covered, albeit with some other even finer print detailing exclusions to the exclusions.

I agree in regards to dental insurance not being worth it. Even when I was employed, the subsidized premium cost seemed to be pretty much a wash. In a past discussion on the subject, a point was made regarding the benefit of paying a lower negotiated rate if insurance was in place, but I'm not sure of that being of much value either. I have brought up the possibility of paying a discounted rate as a cash/retired/no insurance customer with the front desk people at two different providers, each returned a blank stare or no response - next time I'll ask that question of the dentist. My guess is since these are both practices involving multiple partners getting one to agree to that will be like--pulling teeth--as they don't want to be seen as taking profits from their cronies.

[Texas Proud]

Let's just start by saying that dental insurance is not really insurance... as others have mentioned, if you have a really bad problem and need implants, most of that money (if not all) is coming out of your pocket....


But, I find it interesting how many people say they do not buy it because their premium is higher than the costs... well, heck, that is what usually happens with insurance....

I do not think I have a single year where I got back more money from my health insurance than I paid in...

Only once did I get back more money on my auto insurance than I paid in... but then they jacked my rate up and I have calculated they will get back 50% of what I was paid for my totaled car....

I have submitted one claim for homeowners... and barely got back my premium for that year... (do not know if rates are going to go up as it was this year for the claim)....

We buy insurance for potential losses that we could not afford... we hope to not use that insurance... and are happy when we do not.... (especially life insurance).... I do not see why dental is any different.... (yes, I know that almost everybody here can afford any potential loss... I am just throwing this out as a general comment)...


As I have seen, the amount paid for dental insurance is basically within what I would pay for just normal checkups, the extra they have to pay every once in awhile is icing on the cake for me... yes, I have gotten the $1K max a few times, so I am good with what I get in this agreement....

I cannot say if I would say the same if it were only me or just me and DW... but I do remember back when I worked it was worth it, but I do not know if I actually paid for 100% of the premium....

[Ian S]

I use a discount dental plan here in Arizona that costs $59/yr. I have a dentist that I like but my teeth are in good shape so I'm not sure how good the "discount" prices are for more involved procedures are. Others may wish to comment as the plan posts its charges: Preventative Dental Services, Cosmetic Dentistry Coverage, Extraction Coverage, Restorative Dental Plans

[kcowan]

Because dental expenses are a sure thing, I think most plans are just a budgeting process so you pay for everything in the years when you don't make claims. So aside from the profit margin for the company, you are just getting your own money back.

Pharmacy is also a bottomless pit. Most prescribed drugs are not needed long term. A good example is Prilosec, a permanent solution to a temporary problem!

[rodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by utrecht How do you go about negotiating dental rates with a new dentist? Its not like they have a price list on the wall and then you can ask for a discount. Lets say you find out you need 2 teeth pulled. Do you ask how much and when he tells you its $400, you then ask for a discount? I assume he already knows you are a cash customer when yu filled out all the forms. Also, whats a decent price just for a routine cleaning / exam with a new dentist (no insurance)?

I just got an EOB for my son's teeth cleaning last month.

Cleaning before discount: $70. After discount $48.93. Cost to me, $0.

So I would expect cleaning, without insurance to be in the $70-100 range. (Not including x-rays.)

As far as having teeth pulled - I would ask for a quote prior - even with insurance... Having gone through this with both sons. (Orthodontist wanted some teeth pulled prior to treatment starting to make room in their crowded mouths.) At the time my sons had different dentists - one was a pediatric specialist (the son with the crappy teeth). Prices were similar, but the pediatric dentist had some anesthesia that wasn't covered, so I had to pay extra for that. It was 2 years ago - IIRC it was around $150-200 after insurance paid.

[Dreamer]

I had my dental appt with the Prosthodontic Graduate Clinic today. They will have additional dentists looking at things to make a game plan on what they will be doing. The dentist that I saw today gave me rough figures so far. He thinks that if they do partials and the additional things (new crowns, etc) it will cost between $6,000-$10,000. If they do implants and the additional things, it will cost between $15,000-$20,000. Maybe I should not have quit my part-time job 5/15/15. Maybe I need to look at the dental insurance again, but I don't think it will help much, since WVU dental school is out of network. I asked if there was a discount for paying cash and he said there was not.

The good part was that when I told my DH, he told me to do whatever I wanted. He told me not to think about it too much, because I always tend to go the cheaper route. I go back for a 2 hour appt on 10/26/15, which is our 43rd wedding anniversary. DH has a follow-up appt after cataract surgery on that day. Happy Wedding Anniversary to us-we know how to celebrate!

[Corporateburnout]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer I had my dental appt with the Prosthodontic Graduate Clinic today. They will have additional dentists looking at things to make a game plan on what they will be doing. The dentist that I saw today gave me rough figures so far. He thinks that if they do partials and the additional things (new crowns, etc) it will cost between $6,000-$10,000. If they do implants and the additional things, it will cost between $15,000-$20,000. Maybe I should not have quit my part-time job 5/15/15. Maybe I need to look at the dental insurance again, but I don't think it will help much, since WVU dental school is out of network. I asked if there was a discount for paying cash and he said there was not. The good part was that when I told my DH, he told me to do whatever I wanted. He told me not to think about it too much, because I always tend to go the cheaper route. I go back for a 2 hour appt on 10/26/15, which is our 43rd wedding anniversary. DH has a follow-up appt after cataract surgery on that day. Happy Wedding Anniversary to us-we know how to celebrate!

Dental insurance won't help you much for this extensive work. Most insurance policies have a $1500 annual benefits. I am in process of an implant of one tooth at a cost of $7000 including the crown with my insurance covering only $1000.

[Senator]

The VA has a dental plan I am going to get for ~$20 a month. It covers Diagnostic and Preventive with $0 deductible.

The rest at 50% with a $1,000 max benefit.

Plan Comparison | Delta Dental VADIP Dental Program

[ziggy29]

For the most part I never found individual dental to be worth it. You may pay $30-35 per person per month, with a $1000-1500 annual max. Sure, if you need crowns and fillings and root canals every year that's worth it, but if that's the case you have other problems.

Once becoming eligible for group insurance through FEDVIP in May I started on it again. For about $26 per month (for me, DW may or may not go on my medical next year pending choices in the next month or so) I get pretty good insurance that pays 100% for all preventative stuff and has a $10,000 annual maximum. As I have a loose front tooth (and have for years) that may need an implant or a bridge fairly soon (paid 50% in network), it seems like a roughly break-even premium if all I have is cleaning, X-rays and exam is worth doing just in case I need that significant work.

But most individual dental policies, for most people, are probably not a great buy, especially with a $1000-1500 maximum annual benefit in most cases.

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporateburnout Dental insurance won't help you much for this extensive work. Most insurance policies have a $1500 annual benefits. I am in process of an implant of one tooth at a cost of $7000 including the crown with my insurance covering only $1000.

Oh my, I would really be in trouble if 1 implant including crown cost $7000.00. I guess my price is not so bad. He told me that 1 implant including crown would be $2700.00.

[omni550]

For folks who need expensive dental procedures, there are places for dental tourism.

I once had a roommate who went to Costa Rica for her mouthful of dental work. That practice even offered an inexpensive insurance policy (~$100-150, iirc) that would cover the cost of a return visit for adjustments or if anything more major was required. She did get and use that policy. She had a 'Hollywood smile' when she was done.

The dentists that took care of her were a father and son team who had been educated in the U.S., most everyone in the practice spoke English, they had a small boutique hotel next door for their American patients, and it was all set up so patients could go back to their rooms between various procedures, etc.

Here's an example of a website for one of the dental practices in Cost Rica (that has gotten a lot of U.S. press apparently): http://www.mezadentalcare.com/

omni

[nun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator The VA has a dental plan I am going to get for ~$20 a month. It covers Diagnostic and Preventive with $0 deductible. The rest at 50% with a $1,000 max benefit. Plan Comparison | Delta Dental VADIP Dental Program

I have a MetLife Dental plan. $29/mth premium for 2 x cleanings, x-rays and check ups and I get a $1250 annual coverage amount.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer Oh my, I would really be in trouble if 1 implant including crown cost $7000.00. I guess my price is not so bad. He told me that 1 implant including crown would be $2700.00.

That's a real bargain price. Seriously.

[Corporateburnout]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister That's a real bargain price. Seriously.

+1

[Amethyst]

Wow, I should say so. Implant + crown, including all the follow-up visits, for $2700 would be a bargain with insurance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister That's a real bargain price. Seriously.

[Corporateburnout]

Quote:

Originally Posted by omni550 For folks who need expensive dental procedures, there are places for dental tourism. I once had a roommate who went to Costa Rica for her mouthful of dental work. That practice even offered an inexpensive insurance policy (~$100-150, iirc) that would cover the cost of a return visit for adjustments or if anything more major was required. She did get and use that policy. She had a 'Hollywood smile' when she was done. The dentists that took care of her were a father and son team who had been educated in the U.S., most everyone in the practice spoke English, they had a small boutique hotel next door for their American patients, and it was all set up so patients could go back to their rooms between various procedures, etc. Here's an example of a website for one of the dental practices in Cost Rica (that has gotten a lot of U.S. press apparently): Dental Implants and Cosmetic Dentistry in Costa Rica, Meza Dental omni

For an implant it is be impractical to do. I started the process of the implant back in February and so far I've had 5 visits to the surgeon for the extraction, bone graft, implant, X rays and checkups with three more scheduled before completion in January.

I also prefer to be treated by my dentist/surgeon in case of any problems occur in the future.

For me the peace of mine is worth the cost.

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporateburnout For an implant it is be impractical to do. I started the process of the implant back in February and so far I've had 5 visits to the surgeon for the extraction, bone graft, implant, X rays and checkups with three more scheduled before completion in January. I also prefer to be treated by my dentist/surgeon in case of any problems occur in the future. For me the peace of mind is worth the cost.

I've had 4 implants and the oral surgeon did the extraction, bone graft and placement of the implant at the same time. They still waited 2 months for it to heal before putting on a permanent cap and another 2 months before the prosthetic tooth went on. (To those of you not familiar with the terminology, the "implant" is just the titanium plate with a threaded hole that they embed in the jawbone.) I agree with you, though. I have an oral surgeon who's fantastic and a dentist who works well with him. If I need implants again, I won't mess with what works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud Let's just start by saying that dental insurance is not really insurance... as others have mentioned, if you have a really bad problem and need implants, most of that money (if not all) is coming out of your pocket.... But, I find it interesting how many people say they do not buy it because their premium is higher than the costs... well, heck, that is what usually happens with insurance....

Huge difference. I've never made a Homeowners claim and haven't made an Auto claim for at least 15 years, but the potential amount they'll pay if Something Really Bad happens is more than I want to pay out of pocket. The most that dental insurance pays, no matter how bad things get, is capped at $1,500 per year, more or less. I'll go without the dental coverage.