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Old 07-18-2011, 01:18 PM   #121
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Absolutely!

It's the only tool I have to use on a daily (or in my case, weekly) basis to monitor my current "condition" between BT's (Overnight/A1C).
Thanks for the info, Rescue. I think that other than genetics and chance, diabetes is a mostly test of moral character and one's ability to think, be upbeat, and hew to a demanding program.

The internet is a giant help at finding information that may be helpful. I also would like to once again recommend the book The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, by Drs. Volek and Phinney. Anyone interested in or committed to the low carb approach to carbohydrate intolerance, weight loss, metabolic syndrom or T2 diabetes should benefit from this book. They say flat out that breaking the diet is a very bad idea, as you can quickly lose your adaptation to burning fat and ketones rather than carbohydrates. Also, they strongly suggest that this is not a diet- it's a new, permanent way of living and especially of eating. People hate to give up things they like, me included, but after all we give up things all the time. When you get married (in America) you are giving up all the other actual and potential partners, who of course remain attractive to you. This is likely no easier than giving up sweets or pasta or mashed potatoes, for example- so why not get on with it and kiss those formerly fun things goodbye, in the interest of keeping your eyes and kidneys and extremities?

Ha
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:21 PM   #122
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The one thing that I don't understand about Jenny Ruhl, is that she feels that eating too much carbohydrate-containing food cannot cause you to develop diabetes:

I agree that genetics plays a big role, but if diabetes is caused only by one's genetic makeup, I would expect no increase in the incidence of diabetes since, say, 1980 -- 30 years isn't enough time for a shift in the gene pool.
I just received the following response from Jenny herself when I asked for enhancement/clarification to the above. She gave me permission to post it, along with the suggestion to read her page on the subject at http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php.

"If you read the page in which I explain why people didn't eat their way to their disease you will see a long list of environmental factors that explain the huge increase in both obesity and diabetes that has taken place over the past 50 years. Pesticides, arsenic, plasticizers, PCBs, all have been shown to cause diabetes or intensify insulin resistance. So do SSRI drugs, atypical antipsychotics and even Statins.

Blood levels taken of women as part of a new NIH study of environmental impacts on infants are showing shockingly high levels of plastics like BPA, flame retardants, pesticides etc in the the blood of average people. Industry wants you to think that the increase in obesity and diabetes are due to people's bad behavior, because the costs to remove these toxins from the environment are prohibitive, and the toll industry's chemicals have taken on human life already incalculable.

I am old enough to have been born into a world without plastic, but to remember also how the the trucks came and sprayed clouds of DDT on us children as we played at night and then our mothers would fill the room up with spray before we went to sleep. No one thought anything of it. When I was a kid very few people were fat and trust me, people ate plenty of food. It is a revisionist fantasy to think everyone lived an active life and ate small portions in the past. What we are seeing around us is very similar to what happens to lab animals with chemically damaged genes. Huge babies, decreased fertility, etc. etc.

Yes, once you have damaged the genes with these various chemicals, carbs become toxic, but you need to damage the genes to end up with diabetes."
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:03 AM   #123
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If being insulin sensitive is considered a genetic flaw then yes these "damaged genes" cause carbohydrates to be toxic when consumed in typical western-diet sized portions.

Remember what Morgan Spurlock did to himself in only 1 month?
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:21 AM   #124
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That response from Jenny Ruhl seems a bit like crazy talk to me.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:25 AM   #125
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"If you read the page in which I explain why people didn't eat their way to their disease you will see a long list of environmental factors that explain the huge increase in both obesity and diabetes that has taken place over the past 50 years. Pesticides, arsenic, plasticizers, PCBs, all have been shown to cause diabetes or intensify insulin resistance. So do SSRI drugs, atypical antipsychotics and even Statins.
I tend to agree with this statement since (as previously posted) my T2 did not come as a result of any known family member with the condition, but assumed based upon my "interaction" with PCB's (a component of Agent Orange) many years ago.

It's funny that this is mentioned, since such "contaminants" are the factors involved with many other conditions - not only T2.

In the group that I wor*ed with for close to 30 years, there were four people that served (on the ground) in Nam. Of those four, three (me included) were receiving care for our exposure to AO (including cancer, in addition to T2). As for the fourth? Who knows if any condition has yet to show itself?

The idea that T2 (and many other conditions) are a result of "poisoning ourselves" (or the government doing it, in my case) sounds logical, in my simple way of thinking.

Maybe environmental exposure is one of the primary reasons with the explosion of T2, with the management of diet (more specifically, carbs) being the "control mechanism" to keep it in check.

Heck, what do I know? All I do know is that "I have it" and "I control it" by watching my diet (with carb control), along with a bit of exercise which reduces stress - which adds to the problem, if you don't keep stress in check, IMHO.

Just my simple POV, based upon my simple life...
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:10 AM   #126
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Speaking of meters, I expect that someday you'll be able to buy a relatively cheap device that will clip onto your ear lobe, and continuously measure your blood sugar level. You'll download your data to your computer, and get a plot of your levels throughout the day.

That should revolutionize diabetes detection and treatment, and could swing the tide towards low-carb eating ("Wow, look what happened when I ate an apple and a banana!").

I've long thought that diabetics using an insulin pump could use a needle that would provide a continuous reading of BS. But I haven't heard of this being developed yet. Might be helpful for DM's with hard to control BS.
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:57 AM   #127
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If being insulin sensitive is considered a genetic flaw then yes these "damaged genes" cause carbohydrates to be toxic when consumed in typical western-diet sized portions.

Remember what Morgan Spurlock did to himself in only 1 month?
I think you have it backwards. Insulin insensitivity is the genetic flaw, and under modern living conditions and under most of settled living conditions for the last 10,000 years or so this would indeed be a flaw. The Neolithic revolution made this true.

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Old 07-19-2011, 12:01 PM   #128
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I've long thought that diabetics using an insulin pump could use a needle that would provide a continuous reading of BS. But I haven't heard of this being developed yet. Might be helpful for DM's with hard to control BS.
I thought that was how the pump worked- not to give you a readout, but to give the pump the information to keep continuous control of blood sugar.

Re: Jenny's invocation of toxics, I suppose it could certainly be true. But I doubt she has anything other than faith to back it up.

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Old 07-19-2011, 01:31 PM   #129
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I think you have it backwards. Insulin insensitivity is the genetic flaw, and under modern living conditions and under most of settled living conditions for the last 10,000 years or so this would indeed be a flaw. The Neolithic revolution made this true.

Ha
All depends on how you look at it. There is a 6x difference in humans with regard to insulin sensitivity. In my opinion this is the 'normal' range and is not a genetic flaw at all. Individuals who are the most insulin sensitive store fat easily, easily become obese and eventually diabetic (or at least a large subset of the highly insulin sensitive population do).
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:41 PM   #130
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I thought that was how the pump worked- not to give you a readout, but to give the pump the information to keep continuous control of blood sugar.

Re: Jenny's invocation of toxics, I suppose it could certainly be true. But I doubt she has anything other than faith to back it up.

Ha

From the info I get from a coworker who has a husband on the pump it does not get that info... she said that he has a test meter and takes his reading and it sends a signal to the pump... he also has to inform the pump how many carbs he is about to eat...
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:49 PM   #131
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Re: Jenny's invocation of toxics, I suppose it could certainly be true. But I doubt she has anything other than faith to back it up.
She gave references on her web page that apparently implicate various environmental toxins. So she does have more than faith to back up her case, unless, I suppose, you take the position that there are so many suggestive experimental studies out there, one could use them selectively to support many different conclusions. (I have no opinion how persuasive her case is.)
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:01 PM   #132
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From the info I get from a coworker who has a husband on the pump it does not get that info... she said that he has a test meter and takes his reading and it sends a signal to the pump... he also has to inform the pump how many carbs he is about to eat...
Ah, thank you. No as elegant as I thought.

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Old 07-19-2011, 02:05 PM   #133
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All depends on how you look at it. There is a 6x difference in humans with regard to insulin sensitivity. In my opinion this is the 'normal' range and is not a genetic flaw at all. Individuals who are the most insulin sensitive store fat easily, easily become obese and eventually diabetic (or at least a large subset of the highly insulin sensitive population do).
Sure, I see your point. But I take the position that anything that predisposes one to morbidity and early mortality, under conditions of living that have been around for some time and are very likely to stay around for a long time in the future is a flaw.

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Old 07-19-2011, 02:30 PM   #134
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Sure, I see your point. But I take the position that anything that predisposes one to morbidity and early mortality, under conditions of living that have been around for some time and are very likely to stay around for a long time in the future is a flaw.
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The 6x range for insulin sensitivity is surprisingly large, so I guess you could consider the top 20% and the bottom 20% to be 'flawed'. Certainly both groups will have a hard time dealing with the typical American diet. Generally, the most insulin resistant will get hyperinsulinemic quickly if they overeat carbs; however, I think most people in this group find it difficult to do so.

On the other hand, the very insulin sensitive generally find it easy to overeat. Their body packs those carbs away quickly and is ready for more within a couple of hours. After years of that, things start to break bad.
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Old 07-19-2011, 05:46 PM   #135
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The 6x range for insulin sensitivity is surprisingly large, so I guess you could consider the top 20% and the bottom 20% to be 'flawed'. Certainly both groups will have a hard time dealing with the typical American diet. Generally, the most insulin resistant will get hyperinsulinemic quickly if they overeat carbs; however, I think most people in this group find it difficult to do so.

On the other hand, the very insulin sensitive generally find it easy to overeat. Their body packs those carbs away quickly and is ready for more within a couple of hours. After years of that, things start to break bad.
This 6x range is something I had not before heard about. Could you tell me more, and perhaps send me to some papers or discussions of this? Was insulin sensitivity measured by the insulin/glucose clamp method? How many subjects?

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Old 07-19-2011, 08:20 PM   #136
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Well, just got the results from an A1c test I took this morning. 5.8, not bad for a T2 who is still overweight (obese, actually. I still need to lose 6 more lbs. to be overweight). I have never had a fasting blood sugar level below 150, but I don't fluctuate beyond normal much at all during the day. An extremely pronounced Dawn Phenomenon that neither my GP or Endo can explain. So I'm going to keep on slowly losing weight, exercising, having fun, watching for symptoms, and I'll probably die some day anyway. Dammit.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:34 PM   #137
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Well, just got the results from an A1c test I took this morning. 5.8, not bad for a T2 who is still overweight (obese, actually. I still need to lose 6 more lbs. to be overweight). I have never had a fasting blood sugar level below 150, but I don't fluctuate beyond normal much at all during the day. An extremely pronounced Dawn Phenomenon that neither my GP or Endo can explain. So I'm going to keep on slowly losing weight, exercising, having fun, watching for symptoms, and I'll probably die some day anyway. Dammit.
Congratulations Harley, great result.

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Old 07-19-2011, 08:35 PM   #138
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This 6x range is something I had not before heard about. Could you tell me more...
Ha
I heard it from Dr. Connelly in this lecture: Insulin: Body Weight and Energy Production by Dr. Scott Connelly - CrossFit Journal

(The lecture is broken into 3 parts (30 minutes each) and can be downloaded on the right side of the page.)

I've had to listen to this about 5 times to get all the nuances, but it has been worth it.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:29 AM   #139
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I heard it from Dr. Connelly in this lecture: Insulin: Body Weight and Energy Production by Dr. Scott Connelly - CrossFit Journal

(The lecture is broken into 3 parts (30 minutes each) and can be downloaded on the right side of the page.)

I've had to listen to this about 5 times to get all the nuances, but it has been worth it.

I have not looked at any of this, but do thank you for the links.... I have to learn more about my problem to understand it...

So far down about 5 to 6 lbs but starving along the way... still working on getting the doc to do something to get my test strips, but decided to buy some online so I can do more testing right now to understand what my body is doing...
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:56 PM   #140
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I heard it from Dr. Connelly in this lecture: Insulin: Body Weight and Energy Production by Dr. Scott Connelly - CrossFit Journal

(The lecture is broken into 3 parts (30 minutes each) and can be downloaded on the right side of the page.)

I've had to listen to this about 5 times to get all the nuances, but it has been worth it.
Thanks rg, I am just getting ready to listen to #3. #s 1 and 2 were certainly interesting.

Ha
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