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Old 12-09-2013, 01:30 PM   #21
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Makes sense to me. If you are burning the calories at a fast clip, it should not matter as much to your body what kind of calories they are. It just grabs 'em and burns 'em. (naturally you still need to get your other nutrients).

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I find it interesting that the prevention recommendations from the International Diabetes Federation focus on exercise and weight control (particularly belly fat) rather than diet. I could not find any recommendation for a low carb diet on their information dense site.
In this summation of various recent studies, only the Finnish study emphasizes a low fat/high fiber diet - Studies | International Diabetes Federation

Under the diabetes atlas section they state that -
I was under the impression that rich countries had the highest rate of diabetes - implying better access to calorie dense diets.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
According to the WHO, which is not exactly the same thing. Better treatment would be available in rich countries.
From page 54 of the free 160 page PDF book -
A global perspective
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"The majority of people with diabetes live in the economically less-devoped regions of the world. Even in Africa, the Region with the lowest prevalence, it is estimated that around 522,600 people died due to diabetes in 2013. the disparities in the worlds responce to the epidemic are huge: although 80% of people with diabetes live in low and middle-income countries, only 20% of global health expenditure on the disease was made in those countries"
Could they both be right?
link to the book -
EN_6E_Atlas_Full.pdf
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:52 PM   #23
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I find it interesting that the prevention recommendations from the International Diabetes Federation focus on exercise and weight control (particularly belly fat) rather than diet. I could not find any recommendation for a low carb diet on their information dense site.
As of 5 years ago (when I decided to quit wasting my time) there was no recommendation on the American Diabetes Association web site for a low carb diet. Not enough money in it perhaps. I found personal experience freely shared on forums like this one to be much more instructive.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:43 PM   #24
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My blood sugar levels after fasting were going up a bit every year, though I was never in the pre-diabetic range. I adoped a lower-carb, higher fat diet of my own design to lose some extra pounds I was putting on. One side effect was my fasting blood sugar level is now just a bit above the low point of the average range, rather than in the higher end of the average range. Another side effect is that my acid reflux is gone, no more need for the meds.

Note: LCHF is just not high protein. It is higher fat. Preferably natural fats, not trans fats. And as the Harvard School for Public Health has recently admitted, the belief that eating fat makes you fat was 'misguided'.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:08 PM   #25
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My blood sugar levels after fasting were going up a bit every year, though I was never in the pre-diabetic range. I adoped a lower-carb, higher fat diet of my own design to lose some extra pounds I was putting on. One side effect was my fasting blood sugar level is now just a bit above the low point of the average range, rather than in the higher end of the average range. Another side effect is that my acid reflux is gone, no more need for the meds.
If you could allow a generous dose of carbohydrate back into your diet without weight gain, no GERD, and still keep your lipids and fasting glucose well within the green zone would you do so? That is my situation.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:19 AM   #26
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If you could allow a generous dose of carbohydrate back into your diet without weight gain, no GERD, and still keep your lipids and fasting glucose well within the green zone would you do so? That is my situation.
Define generous.

I estimate I used to eat about 350 grams of carbs a day. I think I can eat about 100 grams a day (but not sugary stuff) and stay where I am in terms of the healthful benefits.

I try to consume my carbs as healthy food - veggies, fruit, nuts, some dairy, etc., not as highly processed 'carbage' - chips, sugary snacks, sugared beverages, white bread, etc. The sugary goodies are consumed once or twice a week, max. I do not worry about fat content, though I certainly don't go out of my way to eat fat. So to answer your question, yes I do so. But, only up to a point. Note: I am not a diabetic so what works for me may not work for a person with that condition, or anybody else for that matter.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:32 AM   #27
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Define generous.
It was posed as a physiological quandary. I can consume as much carbohydrate as I like with apparent impunity. I have been on a high carb diet essentially all of my life without weight gain or escalation of blood sugar/triglyceride levels. With power comes responsibility.
The low carb movement(?) has raised my awareness to the possibility of developing glucose intolerance as I age. In response, like you I have cut out all junk carbs and reduced the rest. We may have arrived at the same place by different passage.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:33 PM   #28
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If you could allow a generous dose of carbohydrate back into your diet without weight gain, no GERD, and still keep your lipids and fasting glucose well within the green zone would you do so? That is my situation.
Oh yes I've I were not diabetic I'd consume a lot more carbs. I didn't cut way down on carbs because I stopped liking them. But like you I wouldn't go "all the way back" with donuts, french toast, fast food and the like.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:03 AM   #29
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At some point we will know the mechanics behind all this, but at the moment it's just an exercise arguing about the causes when every day there is new evidence that says a LCHF diet helps prevent and/or relieve many of the health problems we're all facing.

Robb Wolf commented on a recent podcast during which he interview Dr. David Perlmutter MD, author of Grain Brain. Perlmutter says if we dramatically reduced carbohydrate intake we will reduce greatly the risks of dementia, ADHD, anxiety, chronic headaches, depression, etc.

Wolf said,
Quote:
"...there will be people who will get wrapped around the axle of what were describing is the mechanism here. You know, is it just carbs, is it just insulin spiking or is it hyper-palatable foods that cause people to over consume total calories and then that leads into like some mitochondrial dysfunction? But at the end of the day, I think the thing that people really need to understand and this is where Ive tried to keep a foot and I guess in both camps, both looking at things from a calorie based standpoint and also from a hormonal based standpoint, is when we start seeing things head south. When see that A1c head in an unfavorable direction when fructosamine starts increasing, when we see systemic inflammatory factors, when we start seeing you know, even the very, very early beginnings of cognitive decline then regardless of what the mechanism of causation is, our fix is a low carb diet."
My personal guidance on eating is to try and eat as if the wonders of civilization did not exist. If I suddenly found myself in a world without stores, machinery, fertilizer, etc. - how would I eat? The answer is I would eat lots of greens, vegetable, fruits, nuts when they were in season locally, and meat and fish as I could catch it. No grains. And that means no pizza, no bread, no cookies, no soda, no pasta etc. The modern diet is what is making everyone so sick. I don't know why, and can only speculate or report what others claim are the mechanics behind the problem. But it is the modern diet full of grains, carbs, sugars, etc., and so I don't eat that stuff anymore (Okay, about once a month I eat pizza or hamburger and drink a couple of beers.)

Argue the science all you want, but I think that's a fool's quest. My dinner companion this evening was a lovely young woman who is a researcher in a top medical school who is backing away from her PhD and getting out of science and academia. Why? In her words, "Science in this county is garbage. Politics, money and incompetence have ruined it. I don't want to have anything to do with it."
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:35 AM   #30
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Argue the science all you want, but I think that's a fool's quest. My dinner companion this evening was a lovely young woman who is a researcher in a top medical school who is backing away from her PhD and getting out of science and academia. Why? In her words, "Science in this county is garbage. Politics, money and incompetence have ruined it. I don't want to have anything to do with it."
Good for her. From what I have seen, and I have seen some of it, she is right. It might be that well away from nutrition related topics she could find a more honest bench to work at.

And good going yourself!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:52 AM   #31
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My dinner companion this evening was a lovely young woman who is a researcher in a top medical school who is backing away from her PhD and getting out of science and academia. Why? In her words, "Science in this county is garbage. Politics, money and incompetence have ruined it. I don't want to have anything to do with it."
This reminds me of Gary Taubes story about wanting to write more about bad science. A physicist friend made a comment to the effect that he should look into the field of human health, since there was a huge amount of bad science being done in that area.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:32 AM   #32
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I moved to a LCHF diet about 10 years ago and lost over 30 lbs. and never felt better. I wasn't diabetic, just felt Dr. Atkins' made sense at the time. For one reason or another (typically job-related, but no excuse), I gradually started getting back into the old rut.

Recently read 'Wheat Belly' and just started 'Grain Brain,' after re-starting my LCHF diet. My sis started back in May of this year and has lost over 60 lbs. so far. She looks & feels great.
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