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Old 03-19-2016, 06:30 PM   #21
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Doctors routinely misdiagnose you? Any insight as to why?
Some patients enjoy pulling the wool over their doctor's eyes. As in "that's for me to know, and you to find out."
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:23 PM   #22
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This is excellent news.
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LOL!


That went over my head until I saw audryh1's response! Well played!


On a more serious note (and I see Meadbh said much the same), even a professional can't distance themselves from this - and it might even be warranted, for their own self-preservation.

Someone earlier said "don't expect miracles" from Doctors? I think this is part of the problem - they are dealing with sometimes very difficult to diagnose and fix problems - why should we expect 'miracles' from humans, highly trained as they might be? But I do see this sometimes in the older people I know - they expect the Doctor to know everything, even when they (the patient) don't talk about all their symptoms. Like the Doctor can just figure everything out on their own.

I have a great deal of respect for Doctors, though they are human and have their own issues at times as well, like all of us.

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Old 03-19-2016, 08:24 PM   #23
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And you can be nice as pie and they take advantage of you. I'm in the case that's it's up to a point.


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My biggest mistake was being a compliant patient and letting myself be treated for diseases I never had. Believing the doctor knew what he was doing.
It was all "pop" medicine. New disease as seen on TV, we got a pill for that.

None of them had ever heard of a package insert or insisted "you can't believe what they say in the package."

Loss of health. On drugs for life due to unfortunate sequelae of unnecessary drugs for fake diseases I didn't have.

Loss of quality of life. Repeated near loss of life. Loss of ability to work (good thing I was already rich) Will be on prescription for the rest of my life to counter the ill effects. Still need minor surgery incident to the maltreatment but I cannot risk it due to having been made sensitive to almost all antibiotics while I was being treated for a non-disease.

No doctors were sued but some need their throats cut and the gash pizzed into while their mothers are forced to watch. It's a good thing I have good insurance.

As soon as I stopped seeing doctors my health improved by thousands of dollars a year. Almost all of those years of medical costs were due to adverse drug reactions. For needless drugs.

And some doctors are peeved that some customers are jerky? Welcome to everybody else's world. I feel your pain .... NOT. And they feel it's OK to "misdiagnose" them because they are jerks? Just too f... funny. And Unprofessional. And potentially deadly. I guess that's what insurance is for?
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:36 PM   #24
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Doctors routinely misdiagnose you? Any insight as to why?
You'd have to ask them. Incompetence? Greed? Laziness? They watch too much television? I know I cannot trust them. Every time They have said I was sick with something turned out wrong.

One example: For years statins were effing me up. Every doctor kept telling me I had a brain tumor. Only a brain tumor can cause what they were seeing. I, and insurance, spend money on MRI. Of course no brain tumor. However all my symptoms are well known to be caused by statins. But they kept saying I had to lower my risk of a heart attack maybe 30.. 40 years from now. Azzholes. The story goes on for quite a while.

I kissed them off. The last 12 years the only time I see a doctor is when I'm sick, which is seldom since I stopped letting them tell me what's wrong. And when I have to renew the prescription I need for the destruction they creamed their jeans causing.

I don't like dealing with jerks either. Especially when they cost me and the insurance hundreds of thousands of dollars
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:42 PM   #25
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... And they feel it's OK to "misdiagnose" them because they are jerks? ...
I doubt there is any intention to it. It's just human nature that someone will not want to go beyond the average time/effort for a person if that person is acting like a jerk.

I don't know what business you were in, but if you had two customers asking questions about the product you sell, and one was respectful and one was a jerk, which would you be more attentive to (consciously or not)?

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Old 03-19-2016, 08:47 PM   #26
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I practiced dentistry for 38 years. I always found it an extra challenge to do my best for the PITA patient. I never understood why a patient would want to create an adversarial relationship with their healthcare provider. It's hard enough to get a good result when everyone is rowing in the same direction.
At one point I got tired of putting up with the BS and would just call people out on it. That was OK for me, but not really helpful for the patient.
Later I came to a realization that they were often dealing with some fear. Fear of pain. Fear of being embarrassed. Often it was fear of spending money. If I could get them to get to the bottom of their fear, things would often improve. If not, they'd get tired of my efforts, and go somewhere else.
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:36 AM   #27
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I'm still looking for a doctor who isn't "practicing" anymore. At the rates they charge and the importance of the "service they perform", I want one who's "mastered" the science and isn't practicing it.
We had a mature doctor and were very pleased with him. Then he died of a massive heart attack at age 68. Since then, we have been shopping for medical services. After four years, we are starting to get back to where we were but not quite.
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:42 AM   #28
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I practiced dentistry for 38 years. <snip>
At one point I got tired of putting up with the BS and would just call people out on it.
Welcome to the world of today. Trying to understand irrational patient behaviour. The thing is that doctors get more credit for the psychological behaviour than their medical skills. But as long as the medical skills measure up, then they are bound to be successful.
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:03 AM   #29
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I'll be looking for a new doctor on my next visit. Last Fall when I went in for my annual check up, I arrived at 8:00 a.m. and entered as the doors were opened for business. Same clinic I have been to for the last 20 years. Only 3 people ahead of me and I had to wait 3 hours before seeing the doc. Same thing happened the previous year. I asked why does it take so long to see him and he never replied. My previous doc retired 2 years ago and it never took longer than an hour to see him.

To sum it up......it's not always easy to be nice when you have to wait an unreasonable amount of time.
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:16 AM   #30
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Is it any surprise that diagnoses are missed in the jerk population?
Not a surprise at all, at least shouldn't be. Hard enough to diagnose as it is without being distracted by aggression or someone questions your credentials (from the article).

I think this is probably more difficult for a family doctor / GP, who is squeezed for time by the insurance companies and more likely to be seeing someone without enough background information or preliminary testing.
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:49 AM   #31
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I have also read that women may misdiagnosed because they do not speak up enough (i.e., are reverse-jerky) and downplay the severity of their symptoms because they don't want to be a bother (I am sure many men are like this too). Sometimes their symptoms, especially heart-attack related, are not the same as men experience, which makes diagnosis more difficult too.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:00 AM   #32
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I have also read that women may misdiagnosed because they do not speak up enough (i.e., are reverse-jerky) and downplay the severity of their symptoms because they don't want to be a bother (I am sure many men are like this too). Sometimes their symptoms, especially heart-attack related, are not the same as men experience, which makes diagnosis more difficult too.
Medical education needs to acknowledge the variety of symptoms in the population in general, not just the hypothetical 70kg man (on whom standard adult drug doses are based).
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:07 AM   #33
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Doctors are trained to try to treat all patients with respect. However, when they show up with weapons and threaten to rape and stab you, threaten to sue you at the first encounter, demand 100% of your time despite the obvious fact that there are 20 other patients in the ICU, and call you a murderer for bringing up the topic of palliative care, you are likely to avoid them whenever possible, keep security within sight, and keep all conversations short and to the point. These are all true examples of jerks I encountered during my medical career. Is it any surprise that diagnoses are missed in the jerk population?
And here I thought that Canadians were nicer than Americans.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:17 AM   #34
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I have also read that women may misdiagnosed because they do not speak up enough (i.e., are reverse-jerky) and downplay the severity of their symptoms because they don't want to be a bother (I am sure many men are like this too). Sometimes their symptoms, especially heart-attack related, are not the same as men experience, which makes diagnosis more difficult too.
We have two woman friends who had different cancers who found it necessary to be very insistent to get diagnoses they agreed with (and accurate). They both found it necessary to go to more than one doctor to get the attention they needed. Both are a little more forthright than the average woman and I do not know how that affected the reception they got at their doctors before they got what they wanted, even though I am certain neither of them threatened murder.

I have no doubt that women's concerns are discounted especially by doctors. It does not appear to be a simply male thing either. My wife got more attention from her male OB/GYN for our second child than from the woman OB/GYN for our first.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:28 AM   #35
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I have always found that polite persistence was far more productive than belligerence when interacting with someone who deals with the public.

This is good policy with everyone (how would you like to be treated if someone were asking you for help with a problem?), but is especially important when dealing with gatekeepers. Something I learned in the army was, Never piss-off the company clerk.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:38 AM   #36
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I don't trust doctors, I told them to their faces, some killed my mom, misdiagnosed, perhaps. But my doctor is still nice to me, but I don't have any problem yet. So who knows. But I've told my kids not to expect miracles from them either. I'm saying this despite having nephews and nieces who are doctors.
Forgetting about diagnosis by TV commercials, we all need to be educated consumers of health care.

Yes, doctors can be wrong. I saw a TV documentary about a woman doctor practicing in a hospital team environment who was having serious health problems that eventually forced her to leave. No one, herself included, could diagnose the problem and her complaints were dismissed. By chance, having read some history and of George III's problems, it was obvious to me that it was porphyria, which it turned out to be. Obscure maladies like tropical and rare diseases get missed. Sometimes you must be your own diagnostician.
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:14 AM   #37
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...By chance, having read some history and of George III's problems, it was obvious to me that it was porphyria, which it turned out to be...Obscure maladies like tropical and rare diseases get missed. Sometimes you must be your own diagnostician.
Thanks a lot, Ed. I just looked up "porphyria." Now I have one more disease to obsess about the next time I'm not feeling well.
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Doctors are more likely to misdiagnose patients who are jerks
Old 03-20-2016, 11:24 AM   #38
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Doctors are more likely to misdiagnose patients who are jerks

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Forgetting about diagnosis by TV commercials, we all need to be educated consumers of health care.



Yes, doctors can be wrong. I saw a TV documentary about a woman doctor practicing in a hospital team environment who was having serious health problems that eventually forced her to leave. No one, herself included, could diagnose the problem and her complaints were dismissed. By chance, having read some history and of George III's problems, it was obvious to me that it was porphyria, which it turned out to be. Obscure maladies like tropical and rare diseases get missed. Sometimes you must be your own diagnostician.

Younger generation like my kids, millennials, think something slightly wrong and they go to the doctor. Nothing was fixed. For example, one of mine had severe allergies after she came back from a foodie trip from Florida that she couldn't breath, went to the best doctors, UCLA grads, they look up her nose, the procedure was code as a surgery and was charged $1000 and my kid had to pay $100. Nothing was solved. I told her not to go back, they wanted her to go back. Instead, she went to an acupuncture, get some herbal medicines and sure enough it did help. Now the problem is not 100 % gone but it's manageable. It turns out her friend went to treat allergies with western medicine and it didn't help either. Had my kid stayed the course with the UCLA doctors it would barely helped and cost tons of money through insurance.
I also told my kid to stay away from alcohol, she drank lots of cold alcoholic beverages in Florida, and the alcohol didn't help. So this is what I mean by not expecting miracles, you can't expect to abuse your body, in this case by drinking lots of alcohol and then go to doctors to treat allergies. Nobody would think there's a connection. But her acupuncturist said something about wet spleen and my kid's nose was slightly inflamed.
Some food we consume makes something worse and some better. So my kid is also taking turmeric to help with inflammation. The problem has subsided significantly.
I know my husband would laugh his head off if I told him maybe there is a connection between alcohol and allergies, but I treated his leg with turmeric and his doctor never did, x-rays and all that.
The fact is we own our own bodies, not the doctors. If I need surgery, go to the doctor, if I need antibiotics I go to my doctor, but in general I don't have a blind trust in doctors. Not all doctors are alike. Some are trust worthy, some are not.


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Old 03-20-2016, 11:35 AM   #39
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And here I thought that Canadians were nicer than Americans.
These experiences took place in several countries.
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:01 PM   #40
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We have two woman friends who had different cancers who found it necessary to be very insistent to get diagnoses they agreed with (and accurate). They both found it necessary to go to more than one doctor to get the attention they needed. Both are a little more forthright than the average woman and I do not know how that affected the reception they got at their doctors before they got what they wanted, even though I am certain neither of them threatened murder.

I have no doubt that women's concerns are discounted especially by doctors. It does not appear to be a simply male thing either. My wife got more attention from her male OB/GYN for our second child than from the woman OB/GYN for our first.
Age of patient and/or doctor might come into it, too. DH (outgoing, not at all jerky but still assertive) had prostate issues (tmi, I know) and his older urologist said he would just have to live with frequent bathroom visits and worse, recurring infections as part of getting older--DH was in his early 60s. DH changed docs at that point and within two months had surgery that resolved all issues completely.
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