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Doctors’ attitudes on the future of medicine
Old 06-18-2012, 07:46 PM   #1
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Doctors’ attitudes on the future of medicine

Interesting read...

DPMA Foundation : Physician Attitudes on Medicine - National Survey
Quote:
KEY FINDINGS

90% say the medical system is on the WRONG TRACK
83% say they are thinking about QUITTING
61% say the system challenges their ETHICS
85% say the patient-physician relationship is in a TAILSPIN
65% say GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT is most to blame for current problems
72% say individual insurance mandate will NOT result in improved access care
49% say they will STOP accepting Medicaid patients
74% say they will STOP ACCEPTING Medicare patients, or leave Medicare completely
52% say they would rather treat some Medicaid/Medicare patient for FREE
57% give the AMA a FAILING GRADE representing them
1 out of 3 doctors is HESITANT to voice their opinion
2 out of 3 say they are JUST SQUEAKING BY OR IN THE RED financially
95% say private practice is losing out to CORPORATE MEDICINE
80% say DOCTORS/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS are most likely to help solve things
70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:53 PM   #2
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From the thread title, I thought this was going to be another commentary on prostate testing or hormone replacement therapy or robotic surgery.

Instead it turns out to be a bunch of disgruntled experts who are unhappy with the way their business is regulated.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:04 AM   #3
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Who did this survey? Was it some club full of disgruntled docs whose income recently dropped from $500K to $300K? They sound like a bunch of whiners. Everyone is to blame but us.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:58 AM   #4
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Reading the survey, I observed two facts.

1) Only 4.3% of doctors surveyed responded

2) Most respondents are in solo or small group practice (81%) and office-based (89%) versus hospital-based (11%).

The 2nd fact tends to agree with anecdotal stories I have heard and read about how doctors with small individual practices, particularly in rural areas, have not been doing that well.

Doctors doing well financially by affiliation with large hospitals may not bother to return the questionnaire, hence the survey results might be skewed.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Reading the survey, I observed two facts.

1) Only 4.3% doctors surveyed responsded
From what I know about surveys, I believe that a 4.3% response makes this survey statistically questionable.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
From what I know about surveys, I believe that a 4.3% response makes this survey statistically questionable.
And it is a self-selected sub-group. It really has no statistically validity at all, other than 4.3% of the people surveyed feel that way (unless they lied).

Maybe 95% think everything is rosy (no, I don't believe that - but it can't be determined from a survey like this).

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Old 06-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #7
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On further review, I regret ever posting this link. Now that I've looked into the organization a little more, and their PAC , I wish I'd never brought it to anyone's attention...I'd delete it if I could and I hope the thread dies (quietly).

Sorry!
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Midpack
On further review, I regret ever posting this link. Now that I've looked into the organization a little more, and their PAC , I wish I'd never brought it to anyone's attention...I'd delete it if I could and I hope the thread dies (quietly).

Sorry!
Heh. Aeons ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and people thought digital wristwatches were amazingly cool, a sociology professor gave us an eye-opening assignment. The class had lots of assignments to build surveys on different subjects, from which we were supposed to then draw conclusions and determine if the results of the survey were statistically significant and valid.

The last assignment was to design and run a survey to confirm a predetermined conclusion.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
On further review, I regret ever posting this link. Now that I've looked into the organization a little more, and their PAC , I wish I'd never brought it to anyone's attention...I'd delete it if I could and I hope the thread dies (quietly).

Sorry!
Almost makes me want to read up on the outfit. Almost.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:30 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Heh. Aeons ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and people thought digital wristwatches were amazingly cool, a sociology professor gave us an eye-opening assignment. The class had lots of assignments to build surveys on different subjects, from which we were supposed to then draw conclusions and determine if the results of the survey were statistically significant and valid.
The last assignment was to design and run a survey to confirm a predetermined conclusion.
Education on the knowledge, concepts, & skills, followed by real-life occupational training?
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:23 AM   #11
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I think that there would be lots of frustration behind GPs in the US. In other countries, the difference between GPs (Family practioners) and specialist pay is not so huge. FPs have to run a business, pay for receptionists, equipment etc. Yet their salaries are just about 150 or so there according to the US salary surveys. When you think about the fact that it takes an undergrad (3-4 years) + med degree (4 years) + residency (3years minimum) and debt ranging from 150-250k, it puts things in perspective. There are lots of doctors who burn out from the stress of both the job and the debt load. They start working literally 10 years after their friends in other fields and typically have no assets and more debt when they start. Its not just the debt either, it is the years not worked and the stress of the job, difficulties maintaining relationships etc. Many people question why they did it by the end. The interesting thing about this is that the salaries for docs in the US are less than in parts of Europe, Canada and Australia. Yet the health care system in the US is the most expensive in the world and doesn't deliver a universal service. It tells you right away that doctors are not the primary source of the high health costs. But the public has the opposite view and the government there is talking about targeting doctors salaries... It might make sense for those few super specialists that are pulling in over 400k but not for the GPs. Anyways, that is my outside perspective since I live in Australia.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by dr_popeye View Post
The interesting thing about this is that the salaries for docs in the US are less than in parts of Europe, Canada and Australia.
I agree with most of your post, Dr. Popeye. However, the above is not true of Canada in general (with the exception of Alberta). See below:

Canadian doctors still make dramatically less than U.S. counterparts: study | News | National Post

For the record, I expect to gross ~CDN$210K in 2012, perhaps ~160K after expenses. Contract only, no salary, no benefits. I'm a pediatrician in a high profile leadership position.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:43 PM   #13
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Primary-care physicians include family doctors, pediatricians, internal-medicine specialists and obstetrician-gynecologists. Those in the U.S. earned an average after expenses in 2008 of $186,582, versus $125,000 in Canada, $159,000 in Britain and just $92,000 in Australia.
I don't think the study is accurate. I know an Aussie GP that makes 100k but he works 2 days a week. All of the consultants in public hospitals make over 200k. But maybe the study employed relative cost of living analysis? Everything is more expensive in Australia from cars, houses to clothing and food. And Aus taxes are even higher than Canada. I guess if the study figured in these types of details, the US probably would come out on top.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:44 PM   #14
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PS: Why doesn't it include the spaces between paragraphs!?
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dr_popeye View Post
PS: Why doesn't it include the spaces between paragraphs!?
Use [ quote ] and [ /quote ] (all closed up--delete the extra space before/after the brackets) to manually quote from another poster.

I edited your post above to format the quote.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
On further review, I regret ever posting this link. Now that I've looked into the organization a little more, and their PAC , I wish I'd never brought it to anyone's attention...I'd delete it if I could and I hope the thread dies (quietly).

Sorry!
No worries Middy. There are many posts I've submitted and later wished would go away. Meanwhile, here's Cher

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Old 06-24-2012, 11:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dr_popeye View Post
Yet their salaries are just about 150 or so there according to the US salary surveys. When you think about the fact that it takes an undergrad (3-4 years) + med degree (4 years) + residency (3years minimum) and debt ranging from 150-250k, it puts things in perspective. There are lots of doctors who burn out from the stress of both the job and the debt load. They start working literally 10 years after their friends in other fields and typically have no assets and more debt when they start.
Yeah, yeah, and I know scientists who did undergrad (4 years), doctorate (5 years), and a post-doc (1-3 years) and have a ton of debt. They, too, start earning literally 10 years after their friends (we'll ignore the $15,000/yr they make while doing research in grad school) and then only make $75k. Sure, they can't treat your heart but they can build a better cholesterol drug. But, hey, we all make our choices.

GPs in the US make much more than other GPs around the world. Here's a chart,

How Much Do Doctors in Other Countries Make? - NYTimes.com

The 2nd chart adjusts for "purchasing-power parity." As it turns out, Oz has very well paid specialists while the US has very well paid GPs.

“The U.S. position above the trendline indicates that specialists are paid approximately $50,000 more than would be predicted by the high U.S. GDP. General practitioners are paid roughly $30,000 more than the U.S. GDP would predict, and nurses are paid $8,000 more.”
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