Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Dr. Sanjay Gupta CNN show on No More Heart Attacks
Old 08-29-2011, 11:13 AM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Dr. Sanjay Gupta CNN show on No More Heart Attacks

This show was on CNN last night. A few interesting points mentioned on the program were: No discernible difference in blood level readings(LDL,etc) between people having heart attacks and not. Numbers are misunderstood in their importance. What is important is not your LDL number but what type of LDL blood particles you have. Big LDL particles cause no problem, the little LDL particles do as they are the ones that stick to artery wall and clog it up. A specific heart test called a heart calcium test ( if I remember correctly) gives a more accurate assessment of blockage and heart condition. They went through the life of Bill Clinton to explain this process and interviewed him. He had all the blood tests, stress tests,etc. and was still coming up excellent. They never caught his problems because this calcium test is only recently being used. Body types had no relationship to potential heart attacks. They were advocating that if you eat a certain way heart attacks can be eliminated altogether if diet is changed. Some of doctors on show implied that almost all heart attacks are caused by the types of food we eat. They didn't fully go into the proper diet, but kept alluding to the "South Beach Diet"and of course eliminating the usual suspects of meat, cheese, processed, and fatty foods.

They also showed blood samples after the blood was separated from the plasma. You could definitely see the difference in the plasma part between people who scored a low number on the calcium test versus the high number. The low was clear, while the high scorer would have murkier colored.
Clinton reported he is feeling great and is trying to reach his high school weight. He is now on a vegan diet. he modified some after his first bypass, but that didn't do enough as he would up having to get a splint put in, thus undergoing his complete diet change this past year.

While I am eating better, I am no where near where they say I should be diet wise. I would like to do better, but it might take a miracle for me to wean myself from meat.
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-29-2011, 11:29 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
GregLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waimanalo, HI
Posts: 1,881
I saw the show. I was surprised at the proselytizing for this minority view that heart attacks can be completely prevented by giving up animal products. Gupta isn't doing science reporting any longer, in my view, and has become an enthusiast. He did give air time to some opposing views, but that was brief and seemed pro forma.
__________________

__________________
Greg (retired in 2010 at age 68, state pension)
GregLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 11:36 AM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee
I saw the show. I was surprised at the proselytizing for this minority view that heart attacks can be completely prevented by giving up animal products. Gupta isn't doing science reporting any longer, in my view, and has become an enthusiast. He did give air time to some opposing views, but that was brief and seemed pro forma.
Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 11:47 AM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
He is now on a vegan diet. . . .

I would like to do better, but it might take a miracle for me to wean myself from meat.
If this guy can do it, so can you:

Saturday Night Live - Clinton at McDonald's - Video - NBC.com
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 11:56 AM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
GregLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waimanalo, HI
Posts: 1,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.
I guess it is the same as the dense versus fluffy LDL difference that was discussed here a few days ago:
Low Carb Diet Issues
__________________
Greg (retired in 2010 at age 68, state pension)
GregLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 12:02 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.
I read about this several years ago and the description went something like this. The big LDL molecules were described as puffy marshmallows and the small LDL particles were described as BB's. You can imagine which one does the most damage to the artery wall!
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 12:11 PM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
GregLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waimanalo, HI
Posts: 1,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
They didn't fully go into the proper diet, but kept alluding to the "South Beach Diet"and of course eliminating the usual suspects of meat, cheese, processed, and fatty foods.
It's the Esselstyn diet (he's also against vegetable oils/nuts). He has a book about it and a website:
Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease
__________________
Greg (retired in 2010 at age 68, state pension)
GregLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 12:23 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee
It's the Esselstyn diet (he's also against vegetable oils/nuts). He has a book about it and a website:
Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease
He was the doctor on the program that was out there on the lead actually advocating heart attacks could be prevented completely with our diet. I thought I caught the no nuts comment, but I thought certain ones were good for your heart. Having 2 grandfathers who had drop dead heart attacks the show piqued my interest. The calcium test seems intriguing, but I don't know if I would truly want to know the results, unless they were good of course!
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 12:25 PM   #9
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: aberdeen
Posts: 267
This is all fine, but very hard to do in a typical American diet.
Try remove all the animal products, oil, nuts, eggs, cheese and you are left with only fruits, vegetables pasta and bread.

Some people who live very long like Okinawans, and some Italians also eat some animal products but their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active.

I would like to try to be a vegetarian, but it can be a challenge. I think you'll have a hard time cooking american without cheese, milk, and breaded animal parts, oils, and or cream.
__________________
Birchwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 12:47 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
I just got Dr. Esselstyn's book from the library on Friday. DH can hardly wait until I read it and start working on his diet. NOT!
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 02:30 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye
I just got Dr. Esselstyn's book from the library on Friday. DH can hardly wait until I read it and start working on his diet. NOT!
I think I got at least a few good weeks until my heart explodes. I'll let you take the lead, and please report back on your successful implementation of his new diet!
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 02:42 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.
I am not Greg, but I've heard "fluffy" LDL's are harmless, and I am thinking that's the large LDL's Gupta guy is talking about.

I am hoping Gary Taubes take this special calcium test and present the result to us....
__________________
tmm99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 03:41 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmm99 View Post
I am hoping Gary Taubes take this special calcium test and present the result to us....
Here are Taubes' cholesterol numbers (LDL 116, HDL 68, (LDL is the large fluffy type), Triglycerides 64):






The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. Low-carbohydrate diets increase LDL: debunking the myth
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 05:38 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
I think I got at least a few good weeks until my heart explodes. I'll let you take the lead, and please report back on your successful implementation of his new diet!
He's safe for 21 days. He's been called out by the Red Cross to assist with Irene aftermath. Supposedly he is heading to Rochester, NY tomorrow for up to 3 weeks.

The good news is I get control of the remote. The bad news is I also get control of the vacuum cleaner!
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 05:50 PM   #15
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birchwood View Post
This is all fine, but very hard to do in a typical American diet.
Try remove all the animal products, oil, nuts, eggs, cheese and you are left with only fruits, vegetables pasta and bread.

Some people who live very long like Okinawans, and some Italians also eat some animal products but their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active.

I would like to try to be a vegetarian, but it can be a challenge. I think you'll have a hard time cooking american without cheese, milk, and breaded animal parts, oils, and or cream.
There is something to be said about "their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active." - seems that in itself can take care of most problems
jmo
__________________
SJ1_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 06:22 PM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJ1_

There is something to be said about "their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active." - seems that in itself can take care of most problems
jmo
If I understood the undercurrent of the show correctly it was aimed at people with heart problem history and people whose family background has heart problem history in it. I will research some of these links. I wish eating was like Meatloafs song Two out of Three Ain't Bad. I eat only fruit for breakfast, and usually whole oat oatmeal and walnuts for lunch, but all hell breaks lose at night. Just finished off a BBQ hamburger and corn on the cob saturated in butter. Eyeing me a bag of buttered microwave popcorn after yesterday shamelessly cleaning out a whole tube of pringles. I can always hope pringles are "fluffy" LDL
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 11:12 AM   #17
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11
I don't see how heart attacks can be eliminated completely if this is what the show was saying.

So if an old person doesn't die of a heart attack, what will she die of? Cancer? Pneumonia?
__________________
American-Canadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 11:15 AM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by American-Canadian View Post
So if an old person doesn't die of a heart attack, what will she die of? Cancer? Pneumonia?
Lots of other choices...
Quote:
  • Heart disease: 616,067
  • Cancer: 562,875
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
  • Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
  • Diabetes: 71,382
  • Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
  • Septicemia: 34,828
FASTSTATS - Leading Causes of Death
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:39 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Here are Taubes' cholesterol numbers (LDL 116, HDL 68, (LDL is the large fluffy type), Triglycerides 64):






The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. Low-carbohydrate diets increase LDL: debunking the myth
Wow. Thank you Al. His numbers are very very impressive. All he eats is protein and fats...

My recent thinking is if you cat skip the carbs all together (with the exception of low glycemic carbs like green veggies), it's very healthy (as Gary Taubes is showing here), but if you want to eat any bad carbs, you'd better lower fats too. No science behind my thinking though...


tmm
__________________
tmm99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 10:03 AM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmm99 View Post
My recent thinking is if you cat skip the carbs all together (with the exception of low glycemic carbs like green veggies), it's very healthy (as Gary Taubes is showing here), but if you want to eat any bad carbs, you'd better lower fats too. No science behind my thinking though...


tmm
I've thought about that, because that is what most people, including dedicated low-carbers, think. That is, fat is OK as long as you keep the carbs very low.

However, as you say, there are no studies on that, and it would be very hard to research.

I suspect that it's just an attempt to reconcile the latest work with our totally-ingrained attitudes that fat is bad. That is, "Fat has to be bad for us, but maybe it's OK if you don't eat any carbs." Similar to "Fat has to be bad for us, but maybe it's OK if it's polyunsaturated fat." and "Carbs have to be good for us, but maybe it's only the refined carbs that are bad."

But I think that any fat you eat will probably mean less carbs that you eat, and that's a good thing.
__________________

__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:22 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.