Dr. Sanjay Gupta CNN show on No More Heart Attacks

[Mulligan]

This show was on CNN last night. A few interesting points mentioned on the program were: No discernible difference in blood level readings(LDL,etc) between people having heart attacks and not. Numbers are misunderstood in their importance. What is important is not your LDL number but what type of LDL blood particles you have. Big LDL particles cause no problem, the little LDL particles do as they are the ones that stick to artery wall and clog it up. A specific heart test called a heart calcium test ( if I remember correctly) gives a more accurate assessment of blockage and heart condition. They went through the life of Bill Clinton to explain this process and interviewed him. He had all the blood tests, stress tests,etc. and was still coming up excellent. They never caught his problems because this calcium test is only recently being used. Body types had no relationship to potential heart attacks. They were advocating that if you eat a certain way heart attacks can be eliminated altogether if diet is changed. Some of doctors on show implied that almost all heart attacks are caused by the types of food we eat. They didn't fully go into the proper diet, but kept alluding to the "South Beach Diet"and of course eliminating the usual suspects of meat, cheese, processed, and fatty foods.

They also showed blood samples after the blood was separated from the plasma. You could definitely see the difference in the plasma part between people who scored a low number on the calcium test versus the high number. The low was clear, while the high scorer would have murkier colored.
Clinton reported he is feeling great and is trying to reach his high school weight. He is now on a vegan diet. he modified some after his first bypass, but that didn't do enough as he would up having to get a splint put in, thus undergoing his complete diet change this past year.

While I am eating better, I am no where near where they say I should be diet wise. I would like to do better, but it might take a miracle for me to wean myself from meat.

 

[GregLee]

I saw the show. I was surprised at the proselytizing for this minority view that heart attacks can be completely prevented by giving up animal products. Gupta isn't doing science reporting any longer, in my view, and has become an enthusiast. He did give air time to some opposing views, but that was brief and seemed pro forma.

 

[Mulligan]

I saw the show. I was surprised at the proselytizing for this minority view that heart attacks can be completely prevented by giving up animal products. Gupta isn't doing science reporting any longer, in my view, and has become an enthusiast. He did give air time to some opposing views, but that was brief and seemed pro forma.

Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.

 

[Gone4Good]

He is now on a vegan diet. . . .

I would like to do better, but it might take a miracle for me to wean myself from meat.

If this guy can do it, so can you:

Saturday Night Live - Clinton at McDonald's - Video - NBC.com

 

[GregLee]

Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.

I guess it is the same as the dense versus fluffy LDL difference that was discussed here a few days ago:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/low-carb-diet-issues-56997-2.html#post1090701

 

[Buckeye]

Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.

I read about this several years ago and the description went something like this. The big LDL molecules were described as puffy marshmallows and the small LDL particles were described as BB's. You can imagine which one does the most damage to the artery wall!

 

[GregLee]

They didn't fully go into the proper diet, but kept alluding to the "South Beach Diet"and of course eliminating the usual suspects of meat, cheese, processed, and fatty foods.

It's the Esselstyn diet (he's also against vegetable oils/nuts). He has a book about it and a website:
Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease

 

[Mulligan]

It's the Esselstyn diet (he's also against vegetable oils/nuts). He has a book about it and a website:
Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease

He was the doctor on the program that was out there on the lead actually advocating heart attacks could be prevented completely with our diet. I thought I caught the no nuts comment, but I thought certain ones were good for your heart. Having 2 grandfathers who had drop dead heart attacks the show piqued my interest. The calcium test seems intriguing, but I don't know if I would truly want to know the results, unless they were good of course!

 

[Birchwood]

This is all fine, but very hard to do in a typical American diet.
Try remove all the animal products, oil, nuts, eggs, cheese and you are left with only fruits, vegetables pasta and bread.

Some people who live very long like Okinawans, and some Italians also eat some animal products but their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active.

I would like to try to be a vegetarian, but it can be a challenge. I think you'll have a hard time cooking american without cheese, milk, and breaded animal parts, oils, and or cream.

 

[Buckeye]

I just got Dr. Esselstyn's book from the library on Friday. DH can hardly wait until I read it and start working on his diet. NOT!

 

[Mulligan]

I just got Dr. Esselstyn's book from the library on Friday. DH can hardly wait until I read it and start working on his diet. NOT!

I think I got at least a few good weeks until my heart explodes. I'll let you take the lead, and please report back on your successful implementation of his new diet!

 

[tmm99]

Greg, I thought the most interesting thing was the LDL explanation specifically the small and large LDL differences that lead to blockages. Have you heard or read about that before? I had not.

I am not Greg, but I've heard "fluffy" LDL's are harmless, and I am thinking that's the large LDL's Gupta guy is talking about.

I am hoping Gary Taubes take this special calcium test and present the result to us....

 

[TromboneAl]

I am hoping Gary Taubes take this special calcium test and present the result to us....

Here are Taubes' cholesterol numbers (LDL 116, HDL 68, (LDL is the large fluffy type), Triglycerides 64):

The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. » Low-carbohydrate diets increase LDL: debunking the myth

 

[Buckeye]

I think I got at least a few good weeks until my heart explodes. I'll let you take the lead, and please report back on your successful implementation of his new diet!

He's safe for 21 days. He's been called out by the Red Cross to assist with Irene aftermath. Supposedly he is heading to Rochester, NY tomorrow for up to 3 weeks.

The good news is I get control of the remote. The bad news is I also get control of the vacuum cleaner!

 

[SJ1_]

This is all fine, but very hard to do in a typical American diet.
Try remove all the animal products, oil, nuts, eggs, cheese and you are left with only fruits, vegetables pasta and bread.

Some people who live very long like Okinawans, and some Italians also eat some animal products but their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active.

I would like to try to be a vegetarian, but it can be a challenge. I think you'll have a hard time cooking american without cheese, milk, and breaded animal parts, oils, and or cream.

There is something to be said about "their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active." - seems that in itself can take care of most problems
jmo

 

[Mulligan]

There is something to be said about "their portions are smaller, and they're more physically active." - seems that in itself can take care of most problems
jmo

If I understood the undercurrent of the show correctly it was aimed at people with heart problem history and people whose family background has heart problem history in it. I will research some of these links. I wish eating was like Meatloafs song Two out of Three Ain't Bad. I eat only fruit for breakfast, and usually whole oat oatmeal and walnuts for lunch, but all hell breaks lose at night. Just finished off a BBQ hamburger and corn on the cob saturated in butter. Eyeing me a bag of buttered microwave popcorn after yesterday shamelessly cleaning out a whole tube of pringles. I can always hope pringles are "fluffy" LDL

 

[American-Canadian]

I don't see how heart attacks can be eliminated completely if this is what the show was saying.

So if an old person doesn't die of a heart attack, what will she die of? Cancer? Pneumonia?

 

[REWahoo]

So if an old person doesn't die of a heart attack, what will she die of? Cancer? Pneumonia?

Lots of other choices...

• Heart disease: 616,067
• Cancer: 562,875
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
• Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
• Diabetes: 71,382
• Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
• Septicemia: 34,828

FASTSTATS - Leading Causes of Death

 

[tmm99]

Here are Taubes' cholesterol numbers (LDL 116, HDL 68, (LDL is the large fluffy type), Triglycerides 64):






The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. » Low-carbohydrate diets increase LDL: debunking the myth

Wow. Thank you Al. His numbers are very very impressive. All he eats is protein and fats...

My recent thinking is if you cat skip the carbs all together (with the exception of low glycemic carbs like green veggies), it's very healthy (as Gary Taubes is showing here), but if you want to eat any bad carbs, you'd better lower fats too. No science behind my thinking though...


tmm

 

[TromboneAl]

My recent thinking is if you cat skip the carbs all together (with the exception of low glycemic carbs like green veggies), it's very healthy (as Gary Taubes is showing here), but if you want to eat any bad carbs, you'd better lower fats too. No science behind my thinking though...


tmm

I've thought about that, because that is what most people, including dedicated low-carbers, think. That is, fat is OK as long as you keep the carbs very low.

However, as you say, there are no studies on that, and it would be very hard to research.

I suspect that it's just an attempt to reconcile the latest work with our totally-ingrained attitudes that fat is bad. That is, "Fat has to be bad for us, but maybe it's OK if you don't eat any carbs." Similar to "Fat has to be bad for us, but maybe it's OK if it's polyunsaturated fat." and "Carbs have to be good for us, but maybe it's only the refined carbs that are bad."

But I think that any fat you eat will probably mean less carbs that you eat, and that's a good thing.

 

[tmm99]

I've thought about that, because that is what most people, including dedicated low-carbers, think. That is, fat is OK as long as you keep the carbs very low.

However, as you say, there are no studies on that, and it would be very hard to research.

I suspect that it's just an attempt to reconcile the latest work with our totally-ingrained attitudes that fat is bad. That is, "Fat has to be bad for us, but maybe it's OK if you don't eat any carbs." Similar to "Fat has to be bad for us, but maybe it's OK if it's polyunsaturated fat." and "Carbs have to be good for us, but maybe it's only the refined carbs that are bad."

But I think that any fat you eat will probably mean less carbs that you eat, and that's a good thing.

That is so true. The more fat you eat, the more full you get, the less carb you want to consume...

Having said that, what I don't understand is some areas in Japan where white rice is liberally consumed(eg. Okinawa), they tend to enjoy longivity (I believe their diet is higher in fat than the mainland diet, but still by American standards, probably fairly low fat, and they consume much less dairy than Americans.).

I'm sure there are a lot of other variables besides diet that comes into play (type of water they drink, exercise, etc, etc), but the bottom line is I do not understand why they eat high carb/low fat and live long, while tons of people who eat high carb/high fat do not do as well.

I am actually on the low carb camp bceause I feel better on it (no highs and lows), but I don't know if it will make me live longer..

Why do some people get to live so long while eating tons of white rice?

 

[GregLee]

Why do some people get to live so long while eating tons of white rice?

To circle around back toward the thread topic, that is no great mystery, if you follow along in the direction of Gupta's thinking. Rice is vegetable, and it's not oily.

 

[tmm99]

To circle around back toward the thread topic, that is no great mystery, if you follow along in the direction of Gupta's thinking. Rice is vegetable, and it's not oily.

If Gupta's thinking is correct, then, how come someone like Gary Taubes eating only protein/fat (with minimal carbs like green veggies) get fabulous blood panel with very vey low heart disease markers?

 

[GregLee]

If Gupta's thinking is correct, then, how come someone like Gary Taubes eating only protein/fat (with minimal carbs like green veggies) get fabulous blood panel with very vey low heart disease markers?

Beats me. I just want all theories to be adequately considered.

 

[TromboneAl]

Having said that, what I don't understand is some areas in Japan where white rice is liberally consumed(eg. Okinawa), they tend to enjoy longevity (I believe their diet is higher in fat than the mainland diet, but still by American standards, probably fairly low fat, and they consume much less dairy than Americans.).

Also their obesity rate is lower. I'm not sure why. Some say it's because they eat much less sugar, and they walk more (as part of their daily routines). But I'd sure expect that eating a lot of white rice would be a problem.