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Old 12-26-2015, 10:27 PM   #121
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Are you sure it was public fears that killed irradiation of foods?

Maybe the distributors didn't want to pay for the expense? Seems like the process would increase the time it takes to get the food to market and that probably hits the bottom line of the sellers.
According to this source, some of both:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_i...ion_and_impact

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People are also concerned about the indirect effects of irradiation, such as the way irradiation changes the way we relate to food and how irradiation changes the food production and shipping industries. Because of these concerns and the increased cost of irradiated foods, there is not a widespread public demand for the irradiation of foods for human consumption.[3]
[3] http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/bu...SSW95acAk0gz0g

I just saw the previous post - not appropriate for lettuce, so some other solutions are needed, like just better controls at the source for now?

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Old 12-26-2015, 11:24 PM   #122
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I do eat a lot of the store bought washed and bagged lettuce...even though it may be a bit more expensive than buying a head of lettuce.

I never had confidence in being able to thoroughly wash the head of lettuce and it is a somewhat messy process. Who knows what lurks inside the layers?

I am sticking my head in the sand about the washing and bagging process, but there is a limit on what you can worry about. I do not think I would want to live in a world where I could only eat hot, overcooked food anyway.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:26 AM   #123
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You misread my post. I'm not curious as to whether a McD well done burger sans any fresh garnish is safer than locally sourced chipotle raw produce. Rather, I'm concerned whether fresh, locally sourced produce at any independent or local chain restaurant is safer than Chipotle. If I stop by Bertha's diner for a plate lunch at the counter and that plate lunch includes a side salad sourced locally, should I trust it? Is there any reason to feel it's statistically safer to eat Bertha's lettuce and tomato than Chipotle's?
I know of no reason to feel safer eating at a local diner.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:12 AM   #124
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This has been a good, fun and entertaining discussion! I didn't know that the irradiation process mushes the lettuce. Nice catch.

As for...
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You misread my post. I'm not curious as to whether a McD well done burger sans any fresh garnish is safer than locally sourced chipotle raw produce. Rather, I'm concerned whether fresh, locally sourced produce at any independent or local chain restaurant is safer than Chipotle.
Sorry for the misread. I totally share your concern.

One thing that a lot of even smaller or medium restaurants have going for them is they source much of their food from Sysco or US Foods, where a lot of it is prepared in controlled conditions.

That same central sourcing, however, seems to be homogenizing even the small places.

...
A TV station around here gives weekly reports on what health inspectors found at local places. Some of it is extremely disturbing, even for those places that get "A" grades. For example: having marinating chicken on a shelf above where raw produce is being prepared.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:45 AM   #125
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One thing that a lot of even smaller or medium restaurants have going for them is they source much of their food from Sysco or US Foods, where a lot of it is prepared in controlled conditions.
I have one data point that serves to confirm this. This year a local restaurant helped our Thanksgiving charity efforts by offering to source the food through their normal channel - Sysco - at a price lower than we could get through other channels available to us. So, while you might think that small restaurants source their food independently, I'll bet that many/most of them rely on the major food processors.
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:18 AM   #126
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I see those Sysco and US Food trucks all the time delivering to our local grocery stores. What are they delivering? What do they supply to restaurants?
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:23 AM   #127
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I see those Sysco and US Food trucks all the time delivering to our local grocery stores. What are they delivering? What do they supply to restaurants?
Whatever the customer wants:

SyscoÂ*|Â* Customer SolutionsÂ*|Â* ProductsÂ*|Â* The Sysco Brand Family
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:27 AM   #128
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Just out of curiosity, are y'all really worried about getting food poisoning in restaurants, or is this just a friendly discussion, as in the Monty Python Argument skit?

We eat out fairly often, 2 or 3 times/week. I never even consider the chance of getting food poisoning. I know it can happen, but the odds are so much higher that I would get killed driving to the restaurant that it never makes it past my filters. If it happens, I'm sure I'll be cursing the restaurant while puking my guts out, but I certainly don't worry about it ahead of time. Having said that, I do tend to avoid food places that look overly nasty.

I also don't worry too much about it in my food prep. I was and spin my lettuce (usually). I rinse off an apple or a tomato or a bunch of grapes. I never bother with something I'm not going to eat (orange peel, watermelon rind). I guess I take minor precautions, but it's certainly not something I really think about.

I've had food poisoning a few times, although the only bad case wasn't from eating food, it was direct exposure through an open wound. I definitely won't repeat that process. But even when I've gotten it, it's usually a day or so of intestinal distress, then gone. The flu is much worse. I do get flu shots, too, but I don't go around wiping down grocery carts and carrying antibacterial hand wash stuff. I truly believe that being exposed to things at low levels produces some level of immunity, and to be totally bacteria free makes you like the boy in the bubble.

I know my thinking often tends to be off kilter with general society, so I'm truly curious. Is this something people really think about a lot? Or does it just sound that way because of the thread topic and the natural tendency to push the topic forward?
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:34 AM   #129
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I see those Sysco and US Food trucks all the time delivering to our local grocery stores. What are they delivering? What do they supply to restaurants?
There's a Sysco depot an hour or so away from our MD house, and they have an outlet store for retail customers. We stopped in once a few years ago, out of curiosity. It was pretty amazing, the things they sold. Huge rolls of paper towels, 10 lb. bags of frozen breaded calamari, peanut butter, bags of multiple loaves of bread, 55 gallon drums of cleaning supplies, on and on and on. It's like a Costco on steroids, minus the option for anything healthy. The majority of the food was frozen, and mostly breaded to drop into the deep fryer. It was sort of fun walking through. I don't remember buying anything, but I do remember being impressed at the breadth of the offerings. And I'm sure there were plenty of things in the warehouse that didn't make it to the store part.
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:46 AM   #130
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Harley I'm with you. I have had giardia once back in my teens, and it sucked, big time, but I remain somewhat cavalier about what and where I will eat.
If I were immune system suppressed or something, if have to reform, but for now...yes, I will have those "meat on a stick" thingies from the street cart in (insert random sketchy country here). I also buy romaine lettuce and never wash it.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:06 AM   #131
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Giardia <shudder>. Nasty. DW had that once, and as I remember the cure (Flagyl) was nearly as bad as the infestation. It takes weeks to get most parasites out of your system, as opposed to mere days (usually) for bacteria. I took a parasitology course during my Bio degree, and pretty much gave up eating, drinking, and walking around barefoot. Obviously you can't exist like that, so I just gave up and figured I'd just have to trust to clean living to get me through. I plan to start that sometime soon.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:07 AM   #132
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I've had food poisoning twice. Here in South Florida, same restaurant (Peruvian), same two dishes (ceviche, grilled beef heart), a year apart. Go figure - I've eaten raw fish (sushi & ceviche) regularly across Latin America and had raw beef in Mexico, Brazil and Venezuela. I'm a sucker for street food and have eaten all kinds, just about everywhere I've been.

Parasites in bad water are a greater risk outside the US, as is being served spoiled food. In the US the risk is bacterial contamination originating in the processing centers, especially meat, and cross contamination. The overall risk in the US is low no matter where one goes to eat, and I'd guess that the risk from unhealthy ingredients is probably greater than the safety risk from e-coli. Our biggest "avoid" is buffets, mostly because of the bad habits of the people eating there. Exception being Whole Foods Market.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:14 AM   #133
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I never even consider the chance of getting food poisoning. I know it can happen, but the odds are so much higher that I would get killed driving to the restaurant that it never makes it past my filters.
I doubt that this is true. I have had food poisoning at least once/year, including salmonella once known. I have been hit driving 3 times, 2 pretty serious with injuries and car destruction, the third one enough to destroy a new car, but no injuries. Clearly though, I am not dead.

I do know one parent who lost a child to E Coli from a fast food place, but of course I know more than one family with deaths from car crashes.

Ha
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Old 12-27-2015, 10:58 AM   #134
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Sysco offers whole dishes, served at many restaurants, including supposed high end restaurants.
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Old 12-27-2015, 12:09 PM   #135
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Funny food poisoning story. Funny... because it wasn't me.
DH and his brother went to Yosemite and Sequoia a few months ago. All over Yosemite were signs warning about the Plague. (link) Yes... the plague. The day they returned DH gets violently ill - not sure which end to stick on the toilet... His brother remembers the signs - and I look up the symptoms. Sure enough - the plague has the same symptoms as food poisoning... We discuss whether he should see a doctor or not... he calls the nurses line associated with his insurance and they laugh about the plague. We decide he'll tough it out. Then the nurses line calls back - says she did some more research and the plague is possible... he needs to go to the ER.

At the ER they check for bacterial infection and designate him as plague free.

That little adventure was $1400 of fun. (HDHP).

We still joke about the plague in our house.
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Old 12-27-2015, 01:52 PM   #136
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Cue the Monty Python..."bring out your dead"...
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:40 PM   #137
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I know my thinking often tends to be off kilter with general society, so I'm truly curious. Is this something people really think about a lot? Or does it just sound that way because of the thread topic and the natural tendency to push the topic forward?
I don't give it much if any thought. I'm not the guy wiping off grocery cart handles and such either, and agree that some normal exposure to germs is probably good for you. Growing up we always had pets, at least one dog, a cat or two, various gerbils, hamsters, birds, and the like. My dog slept in bed with me (under the covers). One neighbor was aghast at that!

I also very rarely got sick then and even now, and believe there is a connection. Or maybe I just lucked out on the immunity genes.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:18 PM   #138
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Sysco offers whole dishes, served at many restaurants, including supposed high end restaurants.
Is that why every piece of boneless chicken breast looks the same size and shape at Olive Garden/Applebees/Chili's etc.?

DH's mom sent us a gift card for Chili's/Macaroni Grill/Maggiano's. Last time she did that we tried Macaroni Grill and I thought it was just like Olive Garden only pretentious.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:19 PM   #139
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Not sure but supposedly some restaurants offer a few dishes from them to fill out their menus here and there.

The chains probably just have their own supply chain, at least the big ones.

Cheesecake Factory supposedly cooks from scratch.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:38 PM   #140
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Is that why every piece of boneless chicken breast looks the same size and shape at Olive Garden/Applebees/Chili's etc.?
Even the chickens that are raised for their "parts" all look the same and are the same size.
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