E coli Mexican Grill

[haha]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're obviously one of those people that let facts get in the way of a good statistic. I sort of meant that you have a much better chance of dying from in a car wreck than from food poisoning, although that certainly wasn't what I said. Still, I don't worry anywhere near as much about getting food poisoning as I do about getting into a car. As you say, you get food poisoning off and on in life, and almost always survive.

According to the CDC, 48 million people get foodborne illnesses each year (1 in 6). However, only 128K are hospitalized, and only 3K die. Those are pretty good odds of survival. It mostly turns food borne illness into an inconvenience, as opposed to a mortality worry.

That being said, I'm holding on to my Chipotle gift card until it sounds like they've made the appropriate changes in their food handling and purchasing processes.

You are certainly correct. Crashes are a much bigger problem than food poisoning.

Ha

 

[karen1972]

I guess for me, this is really a non-issue. The last article I saw was late December and it reported an incidents from way back in November. If I had a bad immune system, I might not eat there (or really anywhere)..else I think its a non-issue. Its always a green veggie not washed and or contaminated.. ie has no one remembered the massive Spinach recall which impacted I think every piece of spinach in the US... I always suspect, improper washing of hands, which means you always need to look at WHO is serving you, how clean the place is.. I can honestly say I almost always go to the bathroom in a new place first, check that out, if its disgusting, walk right back out.

 

[ERD50]

I'm fairly sure that a short soak in a mild vinegar solution does a great job of killing off the vast majority of bacteria and (as a bonus) the water-soluble chemicals. Then a rinse and we're done. Keep them cool until serving and I doubt there'd be much chance of decolonization. Simple, cheap, quick, and could be done at the field, at a central location, or the store/restaurant. Maybe all of these--any step in the chain interested in avoiding a lawsuit and loss of business.

I just skimmed this, but it looks like straight vinegar will help against some bugs, but they don't mention the 026 strain of e.coli that was the source in this Chipotle issue:

CDC - Disinfection & Sterilization Guideline:Bio Agents - HICPAC

Some environmental groups advocate "environmentally safe" products as alternatives to commercial germicides in the home-care setting. These alternatives (e.g., ammonia, baking soda, vinegar, Borax, liquid detergent) are not registered with EPA and should not be used for disinfecting because they are ineffective against S. aureus. Borax, baking soda, and detergents also are ineffective against Salmonella Typhi and E.coli; however, undiluted vinegar and ammonia are effective against S. Typhi and E.coli 53, 332, 333. Common commercial disinfectants designed for home use also are effective against selected antibiotic-resistant bacteria 53.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

Other than E coli, Cyclospora outbreaks have also occurred frequently. This parasite is found in imported produce, and is the cause of "traveler's diarrhea". It is usually not lethal, but has caused some people to have diarrhea lasting two months. Yikes!

As the source of Cyclospora in imported produce is at the grower, produce bought at supermarkets is just as susceptible as served in restaurants. And the oocysts of Cyclospora are not affected by usual chlorine concentration of drinking water, which by the way makes drinking tap water in third-world countries risky. It's a good thing Cyclospora infection is usually not life-threatening.

 

[harley]

I walked past a Chipotle today at late lunchtime, and the line was out to the door. Obviously it's not stopping a lot of people. I had left my gift card home or I might have gone for it.

 

[explanade]

Oh yeah, they used to give you a free burrito with each gift card purchase this time of year.

And it was only this time of year.

 

[sanfanciscotreat]

And the chicken wings?

Specifications on chicken wings specify the number per pound. The lower the count per pound the larger the wings. Hooters has some of the largest wings (and other parts).

 

[LOL!]

Talk about irradiation....

Isn't milk irradiated over in Europe When I was there, you could buy milk in a carton sitting on the shelf with everything else.... it was not refrigerated...

Once you opened it, you did refrigerate.....

Nope, except when Chernobyl fallout wafted over the German pastures and the cows ate the radioactive grass.

As noted, the milk is UHT milk which is available also in the US.

 

[LOL!]

I don't buy organic and I don't wash my vegetables. I figure that small challenges to my immune system are good for it.

 

[Texas Proud]

Nope, except when Chernobyl fallout wafted over the German pastures and the cows ate the radioactive grass.

As noted, the milk is UHT milk which is available also in the US.

Thanks...

I know that it was not available in the US many years ago... in fact, I have not seen it sold here yet....

I thought the milk tasted the same... and it would seem to be cheaper to ship and sell than refrigerated milk.... must be the milk lobby that keeps it like it is here....

 

[explanade]

Must be habits because whenever I go to Europe, I only buy milk that is in the refrigerated section.

same with juice, the same brands like Tropicana are in the refrigerated section.

 

[LOL!]

In the US, UHT milk is generally called "shelf-stable milk". I find it most often in the grocery store juice-box aisle where it goes into lunch boxes. Horizon is probably the most common brand with plain, chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry flavors.

https://www.horizondairy.com/products/milk/lowfat-plain-milk-box

 

[Sarah in SC]

The little Horizon UHT milk boxes are great for traveling! I am high maintenance on how I take my coffee, and have used them a lot on camping trips.

However, I had the luxury the last time I was in a tent this past fall, of being able to store my milk in fellow forumite sengsational's RV refrigerator! . Thanks again!

 

[harley]

The little Horizon UHT milk boxes are great for traveling! I am high maintenance on how I take my coffee, and have used them a lot on camping trips.

However, I had the luxury the last time I was in a tent this past fall, of being able to store my milk in fellow forumite sengsational's RV refrigerator! . Thanks again!

Those little airplane Bailey's bottles work great with coffee too, and don't require refrigeration.

 

[Fermion]

Those little airplane Bailey's bottles work great with coffee too, and don't require refrigeration.

If you bring enough of them, they don't even require coffee.

 

[HFWR]

Airline coffee is what's known as "kind coffee". The kind they sweep off the floor...

Having said that, I still drink it. Will have to remember that Bailey's thing.

 

[sengsational]

I don't buy organic and I don't wash my vegetables. I figure that small challenges to my immune system are good for it.

I try to buy organic to reduce pesticide intake, but agree that accepting a few innocuous bacteria, wild yeast, etc is probably a good way to not be the first guy to have a strong reaction to some mildly hostile bugs.

The little Horizon UHT milk boxes are great for traveling! I am high maintenance on how I take my coffee, and have used them a lot on camping trips.

However, I had the luxury the last time I was in a tent this past fall, of being able to store my milk in fellow forumite sengsational's RV refrigerator! . Thanks again!

Glad to have been helpful, but I'm sure you could have managed with the chunky milk in the cooler, lol!

 

[JoeWras]

So we've gone around and around on this, and we always come to the same conclusion (as witnessed by the Bailey's talk above):

- Alcohol kills bacteria, drink more alcohol

 

[ERD50]

I try to buy organic to reduce pesticide intake, ...

Except that may not be the case, 'organic' farmers are allowed to spray lots of pesticides, as long as they are considered 'natural':

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html

When you test synthetic chemicals for their ability to cause cancer, you find that about half of them are carcinogenic. Until recently, nobody bothered to look at natural chemicals (such as organic pesticides), because it was assumed that they posed little risk. But when the studies were done, the results were somewhat shocking: you find that about half of the natural chemicals studied are carcinogenic as well.

This is a case where everyone (consumers, farmers, researchers) made the same, dangerous mistake. We assumed that "natural" chemicals were automatically better and safer than synthetic materials, and we were wrong. It's important that we be more prudent in our acceptance of "natural" as being innocuous and harmless.

....

A recent study compared the effectiveness of a rotenone-pyrethrin mixture versus a synthetic pesticide, imidan. Rotenone and pyrethrin are two common organic pesticides; imidan is considered a "soft" synthetic pesticide (i.e., designed to have a brief lifetime after application, and other traits that minimize unwanted effects). It was found that up to 7 applications of the rotenone- pyrethrin mixture were required to obtain the level of protection provided by 2 applications of imidan.

It seems unlikely that 7 applications of rotenone and pyrethrin are really better for the environment than 2 applications of imidan, especially when rotenone is extremely toxic to fish and other aquatic life.

It should be noted, however, that we don't know for certain which system is more harmful. This is because we do not look at organic pesticides the same way that we look at conventional pesticides. We don't know how long these organic pesticides persist in the environment, or the full extent of their effects.

When you look at lists of pesticides allowed in organic agriculture, you find warnings such as, "Use with caution. The toxicological effects of [organic pesticide X] are largely unknown," or "Its persistence in the soil is unknown." Again, researchers haven't bothered to study the effects of organic pesticides because it is assumed that "natural" chemicals are automatically safe.

The 'synthetic' pesticides are being improved so that they pose less risk, break down faster, etc. There are very few 'natural' pesticides to choose from, and limited ways to improve them.

-ERD50

 

[gerntz]

Must be habits because whenever I go to Europe, I only buy milk that is in the refrigerated section.

same with juice, the same brands like Tropicana are in the refrigerated section.

Aseptic processing & packaging to achieve shelf stability without refrigeration is a wonderful thing - and reduces the need for refrigeration space/cost.

 

[gerntz]

I don't buy organic and I don't wash my vegetables. I figure that small challenges to my immune system are good for it.

Yep. Haven't heard of too many people dying of preservatives.

 

[explanade]

Yep. Haven't heard of too many people dying of preservatives.

Not that we know about.

Who knows if some preservatives increase the likelihood of cancer for some people.

 

[gerntz]

Not that we know about.

Who knows if some preservatives increase the likelihood of cancer for some people.

But we do know of people dying acutely from organic food, right, versus some theoretical hype?

 

[ERD50]

Not that we know about.

Who knows if some preservatives increase the likelihood of cancer for some people.

And who knows if some preservatives decrease the likelihood of cancer for some people? After all, chemo-therapy is 'chemicals'.

Is there any correlation between cancer incidence rates (the only stat that matters for this kind of question - mortality and overall occurrence are more related to treatment improvements and the fact that people aren't dying from other things), and the use of all these new 'chemicals'? I'm not even sure if incidence rates are a good stat - aren't we better at detecting cancer than we used to be?

But we do know of people dying acutely from organic food, right, versus some theoretical hype?

With so many things to fear, I try to be pragmatic. Do something about the known stuff, spend less time worrying about the theoretical.

Though I do think Brewer has a point - if you have simple options, maybe it makes sense to avoid a theoretical issue. Leaves more 'room' for alcohol and bacon!

-ERD50

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

And who knows if some preservatives decrease the likelihood of cancer for some people? After all, chemo-therapy is 'chemicals'.

Is there any correlation between cancer incidence rates (the only stat that matters for this kind of question - mortality and overall occurrence are more related to treatment improvements and the fact that people aren't dying from other things), and the use of all these new 'chemicals'? I'm not even sure if incidence rates are a good stat - aren't we better at detecting cancer than we used to be?

Funny you should mention -- I did a double-take awhile back when I discovered some people were taking the preservative BHT as a dietary supplement (can't call it medicine per the FDA). It's supposed to have an antiviral effect. The first time I saw the initials was when I would read the ingredients on the back of the cereal box, paired with its cousin BHA.