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Old 10-15-2014, 08:10 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Telly View Post

More from inside, the nurses view of what went on:
Dallas nurses describe Ebola hospital care: 'There was no protocol'

Heads will need to roll at that hospital, and at the hospital group. Big Heads, not nurses.
According to the gofundme fundraiser linked in the article for the first nurse all her belongings have been destroyed. These items includes furniture, appliances, kitchenware, clothing, etc. so this is another significant issue for those stricken with Ebola who will have to start over from scratch after recovery.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:20 PM   #242
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Just looking for them to do their jobs. Part of their job is to train the hospitals on this. How about training the people in isolation. ("Don't get on a plane.")
+1. I could not believe that one of the Dallas nurses supposedly in isolation after the first nurse got infected decided to fly from Dallas to Cleveland to visit her mother, during her 3-week isolation period. That is the height of irresponsibility! And why was she even allowed to get on a commercial flight?? Now, 132 people who were on that flight with her (from Cleveland to Dallas) will have their lives disrupted (possibly in a major way), because of her stupidity. Unbelievable.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:41 PM   #243
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NBC's Snyderman apologizes for violating quarantine - CNN.com

Dr. Nancy Snyderman has evidently violated the 21 day quarantine she and her team were supposed to be under. She apologized for violating the quarantine. Perhaps she didn't think she had to take it seriously.

This stuff is just unbelievable and no wonder there are additional cases surfacing and possibly more to come.
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Ebola in Texas
Old 10-15-2014, 08:42 PM   #244
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Ebola in Texas

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+1. I could not believe that one of the Dallas nurses supposedly in isolation after the first nurse got infected decided to fly from Dallas to Cleveland to visit her mother, during her 3-week isolation period. That is the height of irresponsibility! And why was she even allowed to get on a commercial flight?? Now, 132 people who were on that flight with her (from Cleveland to Dallas) will have their lives disrupted (possibly in a major way), because of her stupidity. Unbelievable.

Don't blame the nurse. She actually contacted the CDC prior to her flight. She reported her fever at 99.5. They told her she was clear to fly since it wasn't a 100.5 fever. Per their 'protocol'. Apparently she called the CDC more than once and got the same answer.

The nurses keep getting tossed under the bus. They are the victims.

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Old 10-15-2014, 08:44 PM   #245
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The nurses keep getting tossed under the bus. They are the victims.
+1
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:56 PM   #246
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After 9-11, I thought we made plans to handle a biological attack by terrorists. Would not that help if Ebola threatens to get out of control or does so?

Whatever, I hope you folks in Texas don't get caught up in a big mess.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:00 PM   #247
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Don't blame the nurse. She actually contacted the CDC prior to her flight. She reported her fever at 99.5. They told her she was clear to fly since it wasn't a 100.5 fever. Per their 'protocol'. Apparently she called the CDC more than once and got the same answer.

The nurses keep getting tossed under the bus. They are the victims.

Muir

Thanks for the clarification, I was not aware of that. In that case, I'll have to redirect my frustration at the CDC, and not the nurse. Why anyone currently in isolation for possible Ebola infection was allowed to fly on a commercial airliner with ANY fever or other health abnormalities whatsoever is beyond me. Given the fact that all the nurses that treated the Liberian Ebola patient in Dallas were admittedly (by the hospital) not properly protected for the first 3 days he was treated, it seems like the prudent thing to do would have been to require those individuals to be truly isolated for 21 days (minimal contact with others, absolutely no travel). Pay them their normal salary, of course, but no work and very minimal contact with others. It seems like that would have prevented a whole lot of problems down the road (that we are now going to experience.....)
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:13 PM   #248
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The hospital in Dallas was not designed for or intended to ever handle anything like ebola. The crime here was their attempt to handle it.
I doubt that this is the root cause of the problems. Sure a better facility would be great, but the problems so far are a lot more about not even wearing the protective gear for the first few days while waiting for the Ebola test to be confirmed. Common sense would have been to act like the test was positive and protect, then you can always relax if it turns out to be a false alarm. To treat it like a routine problem until the test says otherwise is common in some medical settings but should not have been for something as infectious as this.

Likewise, all the caregivers were not monitored or isolated or even on the tracking lists, because it was assumed the "protocols" were perfect protection. Clearly they weren't. A nurse with a fever taking a plane, and a reporter deliberately violating an isolation order are not going to be solved with a better building. We need good information, we need sensible precautions, proper protective suits and protocols and we need people to follow common sense rules. This shouldn't actually be as hard as it has been in Dallas.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:20 PM   #249
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While I am in the camp that the nurses should be applauded for knowingly risking their lives for treating Mr. Duncan, it is still an incredible lapse in judgment to hop on an airplane knowing you are in the 3 week incubation period. I don't care what the CDC told her, that just shows an extreme lapse in judgment in my opinion. Maybe I am overly paranoid, but I am sure Ms. Vinson saw what Mr. Duncan went through during his battle with Ebola and to even consider taking a commercial flight knowing that there was a possibility she could have the virus just shows a lapse in judgment.

Or it could be that this just hits to close to home as my fiance is a nurse, and I know what she deals with on a daily basis so I am not trying to beat up on these nurses. But the thought of her caring for an Ebola patient and then trying to get on a plane would certainly be a source of conflict between her and I if we were in that situation. To top it off it makes me uneasy to think that Ms. Vinson was in the Cleveland/Akron area. That is my hometown and I have family there. I realize the likelihood of any of them contracting Ebola is extremely low, but the sheer number of lapses by the CDC and Texas Presbyterian makes me sick to my stomach. I can't help but ask "what if"? It seems like all of this could have been avoided.

That being said, it goes back to the CDC giving poor direction to Ms. Vinson, and not isolating all of the healthcare professionals right away after Mr. Duncan's passing. Heads SHOULD roll at Texas Presbyterian. The thought that the nurses had to treat Mr. Duncan in those conditions is a joke and quite frankly a disgrace to healthcare everywhere. It's almost as if there was a degree of arrogance by the hospital administration (not the healthcare professionals) that their way would be sufficient to handle this. I agree with what RAE says, it seems to me that there were many options to handle this case much better that would have prevented two additional people from being sick, and prevented the fear mongering that is going on in the media (which I am well aware I have fallen victim to to a certain degree).
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:50 PM   #250
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While I am in the camp that the nurses should be applauded for knowingly risking their lives for treating Mr. Duncan, it is still an incredible lapse in judgment to hop on an airplane knowing you are in the 3 week incubation period. I don't care what the CDC told her, that just shows an extreme lapse in judgment in my opinion.
She did exactly what she was told to do- go upstairs and get orders.

Remember Katrina? What a stellar job everyone did? Washington is just keystone cops, being so vigilant about covering their a(ss)s that they screw up everything.

Does anyone think the "war on ISIS" is being well handled? Me neither, so why expect any other federal department to do any better? Just pretend it's the Black Death. With luck, we'll escape. Otherwise, we won't.

Ha
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Old 10-15-2014, 11:13 PM   #251
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Don't blame the nurse. She actually contacted the CDC prior to her flight. She reported her fever at 99.5. They told her she was clear to fly since it wasn't a 100.5 fever. Per their 'protocol'. Apparently she called the CDC more than once and got the same answer.

The nurses keep getting tossed under the bus. They are the victims.
Wow. This gets more surreal.
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Old 10-15-2014, 11:18 PM   #252
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Don't blame the nurse. She actually contacted the CDC prior to her flight. She reported her fever at 99.5. They told her she was clear to fly since it wasn't a 100.5 fever. Per their 'protocol'. Apparently she called the CDC more than once and got the same answer.

The nurses keep getting tossed under the bus. They are the victims.

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C'mon, even though the nurse might not have been told not to travel, wouldn't common sense tell you NOT TO TRAVEL in the first place? I agree that the medical staff was put in a horrible position but I still think that the decision to travel after caring for someone with Ebola was sheer stupidity. She should have never gone to Cleveland in the first place.
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Old 10-15-2014, 11:32 PM   #253
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Back in the early 1980s, Johnson & Johnson set the standard on how to react in a "product" disaster. For those who don't remember/not around then, people started dying in the Chicago area due to OTC Tylenol capsules laced with cyanide. In the beginning, it was unknown whether the poison was introduced in the manufacturing process (turned out it wasn't), or introduced by someone tampering with products on the store shelves (it was). It turned out it wasn't J & Js fault at all. But every step of the way they kept the public informed. No puffing the chest out posturing, no lying. Tylenol was removed from the market, and they developed the solid caplet, and the whole concept of tamper-proof we have today. They are often cited as the best response to a disaster ever for a company.

Late today I saw video of Dr. Daniel Vargas, Chief Clinician of Texas Health Resources, they are the parent of the Texas Health hospitals, of which THPD is one. This guy said "there are no systemic or institutional problems at THPD", and further more "they have been serving the community for many years, blah blah blah" smearing off the topic at hand. What a jerk. They are the complete opposite of the J & J response. I am surprised that someone in that corporation doesn't have enough guts to say we screwed up big time, don't lie to people, don't make up stories, quit trying to shift the blame to cover our own azzezs, etc. etc. But no.

The nurses work for the hospital. It is the hospitals duty to provide the equipment they need to do the job safely and efficiently. It is the hospitals duty to provide or arrange for any training needed, especially for something beyond the usual day-to-day, like this! It is the hospitals duty as employer, to direct and require any addition procedures, limitations, etc. as required to keep their employees, the Doctors that come in, patients, visitors of patients, volunteers, etc. safe.
The hospital should have clearly identified which employees would be under a self-quarantine, what the procedure and rules were for the self-quarantine, answer questions of those involved, and continue to monitor it to make sure it WAS being followed.
Complete abdication of responsibility by that hospital, in my opinion.

A background note to those not in Texas, about hospitals here. The doctors that see the patients and do the work are NOT employees of the hospital (by state law, IIRC). You are billed separately and outside for them. However, hospitals and their governing structure DO have Doctors on their payroll for their own functionality.
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:31 AM   #254
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Major centres do, and there have already been several patients isolated and tested for Ebola. To date, all have been negative. It's only a matter of time. My educated guess is that the level of preparation in Canada is about the same as in the US.

Ebola virus disease - Infectious Diseases - Public Health Agency of Canada

Here is a policy example from September 2014. Actually, it's an Operational Directive, which means compliance is mandatory.

http://www.wrha.mb.ca/prog/ipc/files/EVDMgmt-OD.pdf
On the CTV news tonight:
Ottawa looking to contribute another $30M in fight against Ebola | CTV News

From The Globe and Mail:
Ottawa readies Ebola response team, provinces designate treatment centres
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...ticle21121980/
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:58 AM   #255
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I am not sure that CDC deserve that much of the blame. If I even a layman like myself understands that when treating a patient from West Africa who is projectile vomiting it is really really important, to not have any skin exposed, than I would think that hospital administrators would make sure such gear is available.
This is easier said than done. There are tens of thousands of hospitals in the USA. Except for this random event they do not need or use the types of very specialized equipment necessary. If they don't use it, they don't buy it and don't train anyone to use it. Are you ready to have the cost of heath care go up to cover this up until now unnecessary equipment? If you are, it will still take years to get a vast majority of the facilities up to the necessary levels of equipment and training to do what needed to be done in Dallas.

The cases up until the Dallas fiasco were all "imported" health care workers from Africa. These were flown into top tier facilities designed for this type of illness. The biggest problem I see in the Dallas debacle is that it was left to run its course in Dallas. The hospital should have screamed for help. The CDC should have facilitated moving the patient to one of the qualified facilities. I blame the hospital and CDC for obvious blatant stupidity.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:27 AM   #256
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The one thing that should be no surprise is all the false and misleading info that is being circulated. Not sure we will ever know all the real facts of what did or did not happen or who said what or didn't say. We might end up with conspiracy theories for years to come on this sad situation, after all, this is Dallas.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:31 AM   #257
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The Dallas County DA, who was going to charge Duncan for crimes, should consider charging this nurse if anyone else gets Ebola from her.

She should have been a professional and stayed home.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:23 AM   #258
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The one thing that should be no surprise is all the false and misleading info that is being circulated. Not sure we will ever know all the real facts of what did or did not happen or who said what or didn't say. We might end up with conspiracy theories for years to come on this sad situation, after all, this is Dallas.
Are you suggesting that the ebola infection occurred at the grassy knoll?
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:19 AM   #259
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And now Dallas county is contemplating declaring a state of emergency:

Dallas County May Declare State of Disaster From Ebola Virus - Bloomberg

Expect the start of backlash from those deeply suspicious of gubmint exercising powers in times of supposed crisis...
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:26 AM   #260
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And now Dallas county is contemplating declaring a state of emergency:

Dallas County May Declare State of Disaster From Ebola Virus - Bloomberg

Expect the start of backlash from those deeply suspicious of gubmint exercising powers in times of supposed crisis...
This seems premature but why is the first infected nurse still in Dallas?
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