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Old 10-28-2014, 07:58 AM   #461
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Y I'm assuming this is the nurse that fought NJ's quarantine.
No, the nurse you are referring to was from Maine, the one Gumby posted about is from Connecticut.
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:05 AM   #462
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Apparently not all bodily fluids are the same

A Glossary of Ebola Contact Types - Defense - GovExec.com


"Since Ebola made landfall in the US in September, officials at the US Centers for Disease Control and their counterparts at the state and local levels have campaigned to educate the public about how the virus can—and can’t—move from person to person. The effort has resulted in communiqués about the difference between “casual,” “direct” and “close” contact. With that in mind, here is a guide to help you stay Ebola-free while maintaining whatever interaction with others you (and they) prefer."
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Old 10-28-2014, 12:42 PM   #463
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A friend of a friend in the nursing profession posted this on Facebook not long ago...

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I've been watching the news a lot the past few days and I've noticed something. I think those who don't work in the medical profession don't understand how difficult it is to actually contract the Ebola virus.

Here is a list of all the people in America who were infected with Ebola virus disease:

Dr. Kent Brantly
Dr. Rick Sacra
Nancy Writebol
Eric Duncan
Nina Pham
Amber Vinson

There is one thing that all of these people have in common. They were in direct contact with the vomit and feces of someone who was in the later stages of infection with the Ebola virus. Dr Sacra contracted the disease after performing a c-section on a patient (in LIberia) who had not yet been diagnosed with the disease.

And, other than playing with infected bats and monkeys, that is the only way to get it.

But why has the Ebola virus killed thousands in African countries?

Because these are third-world countries. Most of the "hospitals" where their Ebola patients spend their last days don't have working sewer systems. They don't have disposable bedpans and advanced waste-management systems like we do in the US.

A little look into the relationship between a critically ill patient and their healthcare team will also be helpful. This is not for the weak of stomach.

When a patient is in the last stages of their battle with the Ebola virus, they produce a large amount of mucous, stool, vomit, and possibly blood. When a patient who is unable to sit up or get out of bed is stricken with these symptoms, I can assure you that these substances get EVERYWHERE. We're not talking a couple of bowel movements a day. We're talking about a constant flow of liquid stool coming from a patient who can only lie in the bed as it pools around them. And every time you change those sheets - which requires two people - you have piles of poop-covered sheets and gowns moved all around the room.

On several occasions during my career as an ICU nurse, I have found myself asking the question, "How in the hell did poop get THERE?"

And if the actual virus is IN the poop, then you're getting that virus on EVERYTHING.

And all these people in ties and skirts have never been at the bedside cleaning these messes. They do not understand the situation that these caregivers are in any more than a fish knows what it's like to sneeze. So when they get in front of a camera yack about Ebola, you need to take it with a grain of salt and check the facts for yourself.

My point is this: Although the Ebola virus disease IS a serious illness, the media is seriously exaggerating the actual danger to you and your family. Unless you are literally cleaning up the poop or vomit of someone who is dying from Ebola virus disease, you're safe.
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Old 10-28-2014, 12:58 PM   #464
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Will someone please answer the question of how the American journalist covering the Ebola outbreak came down with the disease when he said he exercised caution while filming?

Did he have sex with monkeys or clean his camera lens with infected poop?

It just doesn't sound like he was doing C-sections or cleaning bedpans, or even licking corpses.
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Old 10-28-2014, 01:01 PM   #465
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Will someone please answer the question of how the American journalist covering the Ebola outbreak came down with the disease when he said he exercised caution while filming?

Did he have sex with monkeys or clean his camera lens with infected poop?

It just doesn't sound like he was doing C-sections or cleaning bedpans, or even licking corpses.
I take it to mean that his perception of what he did is different from his reality. IMHO.
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Old 10-28-2014, 01:18 PM   #466
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He apparently told his father he was spraying his shoes with a hose to clean them off after being in the medical area (his father said he told him that but he hasn't mentioned it himself to the press), and some of the contaminated water splashed on his bare skin.
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Old 10-28-2014, 02:50 PM   #467
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The point I'm making does not involve nuanced differences of the subject matter, but the cafeteria style approach as to which 'experts' people believe. The disconnect I'm seeing is that the same overarching scientific establishment (scientific industrial complex?) that created our modern civilization - vaccines, penicillin, computers, space exploration, heart transplants - is only believed when people 'feel' like they agree with the scientific determination. It turns out Ebola is one of those scientific determinations that people just 'feel' is wrong, for whatever reason, without any actual proof for their skepticism. That's the disconnect I see.
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Old 10-28-2014, 04:53 PM   #468
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Your link just takes me to a home page for the newspaper. I'm assuming this is the nurse that fought NJ's quarantine. It will be interesting what happens should this nurse develop symptoms later.

I'm sure there have been many dozens of heathcare workers that came back from West Africa without issues. Unfortunately, we've just seen one that didn't.
That's odd. When I click on the link, it goes to the article. In any event, the nurse in Tolland worked with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone. When she returned to Connecticut, she voluntarily quarantined herself on her son's farm for three weeks, feeding the chickens, reading and doing chores but avoiding direct physical contact with her family. After the 21 days were up, they had a dinner party. No fuss, no threats of lawsuits, just a responsible woman doing what needed to be done. She is now down in Atlanta training CDC workers how to dress and undress in the personal protective equipment.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:01 PM   #469
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He apparently told his father he was spraying his shoes with a hose to clean them off after being in the medical area (his father said he told him that but he hasn't mentioned it himself to the press), and some of the contaminated water splashed on his bare skin.
Well that certainly doesn't sound like he was directly exposed as those in this thread contend you need to be to contract this virus.

The virus was on his shoes, he sprayed them with water and got some backsplash, the 80nm virus traveled in the water droplet to his skin, then he rubbed his eye within a few hours. Something like that?

Doesn't sound incredibly different from a returning healthcare worker using a public bathroom at, say, a bowling alley, spreading the virus from their rectum region to the toilet seat or stall door, then having the next person who uses the bathroom pick up the virus and rub their eye.

It is not a far fetched scenario at all in my opinion. Especially if the worker is right on the edge of symptomatic or is one of the small percentage that do not readily show symptoms. If the virus is already in the stool then it can be spread fairly easily.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:05 PM   #470
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He apparently told his father he was spraying his shoes with a hose to clean them off after being in the medical area (his father said he told him that but he hasn't mentioned it himself to the press), and some of the contaminated water splashed on his bare skin.
Water doesn't kill ebola, and so he no doubt splashed it around. Should have used a bleach solution. Ruined shoes is a small price to pay to prevent ebola. Hope he didn't infect anyone else.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:15 PM   #471
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I wonder if all the caregivers to the Dallas nurses, the photojournalist, and the Doc w/o borders are being quarantined. I guess they should be too?
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:49 PM   #472
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It somewhat reminds of the hysteria, when AIDs first hit the scene. People with HIV were fired, kids weren't allowed to go to school, lots of bans were proposed with respect to gays. The panic was understandable in many ways, a highly lethal disease with no cure and no treatment. AIDs actually is lot scary than Ebola even today. It appears with prompt medical help in a Western hospital you are very likely to survive Ebola and after a few weeks are pretty healthy again.

The ultimate solution with HIV/AIDs was education, not knee jerk reactions.
The big difference is that over a span of just 10-20 days (possibly fewer), nearly every HIV/AIDs patient doesn't develop massive diarrhea, or blood hemorrhaging out of their eyes/orifices, and profuse sweating (which might include traces of blood, but either way could include the virus), and doesn't have projectile vomiting of blood - all filled with the virus.

If that were the case for 99.9% of HIV patients, do you think they would have merely resorted to 'education'?


And in today's news that really doesn't make sense:

White House: 'Not unusual' for Ebola quarantine rules to differ for military, general population - Washington Times

So you have military service men and women who were NOT directly treating or interacting with or even anywhere near any Ebola patients, who were merely in the same country as Ebola victims, who are required to have strict isolation quarantine for 21 days upon leaving the Ebola country.

Yet, healthcare workers directly treating Ebola patients should not have any quarantine whatsoever....according to this administration.
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:16 PM   #473
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A. The military rarely does anything by half-measures; and
B. It is substantially easier to violate the constitutional rights of military members than civilians.
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:29 PM   #474
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Interesting editorial on the quarantine in the New England Journal of Medicine:

NEJM Editorially link

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Therefore, an asymptomatic health care worker returning from treating patients with Ebola, even if he or she were infected, would not be contagious. Furthermore, we now know that fever precedes the contagious stage, allowing workers who are unknowingly infected to identify themselves before they become a threat to their community. This understanding is based on more than clinical observation: the sensitive blood polymerase-chain-reaction (PCR) test for Ebola is often negative on the day when fever or other symptoms begin and only becomes reliably positive 2 to 3 days after symptom onset. This point is supported by the fact that of the nurses caring for Thomas Eric Duncan, the man who died from Ebola virus disease in Texas in October, only those who cared for him at the end of his life, when the number of virions he was shedding was likely to be very high, became infected. Notably, Duncan's family members who were living in the same household for days as he was at the start of his illness did not become infected.

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A cynic would say that all these “facts” are derived from observation and that it pays to be 100% safe and to isolate anyone with a remote chance of carrying the virus. What harm can that approach do besides inconveniencing a few health care workers? We strongly disagree. Hundreds of years of experience show that to stop an epidemic of this type requires controlling it at its source. Médecins sans Frontières, the World Health Organization, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and many other organizations say we need tens of thousands of additional volunteers to control the epidemic. We are far short of that goal, so the need for workers on the ground is great. These responsible, skilled health care workers who are risking their lives to help others are also helping by stemming the epidemic at its source. If we add barriers making it harder for volunteers to return to their community, we are hurting ourselves.
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Old 10-29-2014, 04:29 PM   #475
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Interesting editorial on the quarantine in the New England Journal of Medicine:

NEJM Editorially link

I agree with the New England Journal. It is pretty clear that disease only spreads when the Ebola victim is obviously sick. Not only did none of Thomas Duncan family or friends get sick, but neither did any of the 132 passenger of Frontier Airline, who flew with Amber Vinson, nor any of Nurse Nina Pham contacts. I'd be willing to bet none of the people who were in contact with bowling Doctor in NY will be infected either.

Doctors without border has had more than 700 staff members treat people with Ebola and they have had exactly one staff member return home without symptoms and then develop the disease.

I think history will show the folks calling for a quarantine to be just as foolish as the mothers who insisted that kids with HIV stay home from school, cause the kid might get a nose bleed.
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:02 PM   #476
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I agree with the New England Journal. It is pretty clear that disease only spreads when the Ebola victim is obviously sick. Not only did none of Thomas Duncan family or friends get sick, but neither did any of the 132 passenger of Frontier Airline, who flew with Amber Vinson, nor any of Nurse Nina Pham contacts. I'd be willing to bet none of the people who were in contact with bowling Doctor in NY will be infected either.
So you base your complete trust in the spread of the disease on a few examples of non-transmission exposure?

Based on that we should bring back lawn darts as none of my friends ever died from playing with them as kids. As a matter of fact I don't personally know any family that had someone die from a lawn dart.
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:07 PM   #477
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I agree completely - we should bring lawn darts back
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:23 PM   #478
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Lawn darts were a lot of fun, I wish they would come back!!


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Old 10-29-2014, 08:26 PM   #479
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So you base your complete trust in the spread of the disease on a few examples of non-transmission exposure?

Based on that we should bring back lawn darts as none of my friends ever died from playing with them as kids. As a matter of fact I don't personally know any family that had someone die from a lawn dart.
I don't think that's what Cliffp said. He isn't basing his trust on one article. He's basing it on medical history to date.

Ebola is not a new disease - the first known human case was in 1976. There are no indications that this outbreak transmits differently than previous outbreaks.
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:30 PM   #480
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If states are going the quarantine route they must develop a policy that is humane and appropriate. First, no traveler should be held in route except by Homeland Security. If Homeland Security doesn't have a reason to detain the traveler they should proceed on to their destination. That state has jurisdiction with respect to quarantine.
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