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Old 10-29-2014, 10:15 PM   #481
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So you base your complete trust in the spread of the disease on a few examples of non-transmission exposure?

Based on that we should bring back lawn darts as none of my friends ever died from playing with them as kids. As a matter of fact I don't personally know any family that had someone die from a lawn dart.
Another piece of evidence is that no one from the original group of 48 contacts of Duncan (not health care workers) got the disease including the folks who lived in the same apartment between his first and second visits to the ER got the disease. More evidence will appear by next Monday when all the folks on the plane pass the incubation period. The folks on the flight to Cleveland will clear on Friday In both cases the curves show that the odds of not getting the disease increase after the 14th day of the incubation period.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:09 AM   #482
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I agree completely - we should bring lawn darts back
I never realized they left in the first place
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:17 AM   #483
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So you base your complete trust in the spread of the disease on a few examples of non-transmission exposure?
What, then, should our trust be based on?

Having said that, I'm all for proceeding with an abundance of caution...
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:34 AM   #484
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The difference in the two nurses mentioned is that the nurse from Connecticut acted professionally whereas the nurse in Maine just wants her ten minutes of fame no matter what the risk.
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Old 10-30-2014, 12:40 PM   #485
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The way I view it, the nurse in Maine, Hickox, is defending my own personal liberty and battling the encroachment of arbitrary government action as much as any of the celebrated military heroes.

Moemeg, this is NOT directed at you:

For those of us who are forming their opinions about this quarantine stuff on the basis of fear and emotion instead of science and fact, North Korea is going to isolate all foreigners for 21 days.
Is there anything the leaders of crazyland do that isn't exactly backwards?

"Scared of Ebola, N. Korea to quarantine all foreigners"

Scared of Ebola, N. Korea to quarantine all foreigners
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Old 10-30-2014, 12:41 PM   #486
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The difference in the two nurses mentioned is that the nurse from Connecticut acted professionally whereas the nurse in Maine just wants her ten minutes of fame no matter what the risk.
I felt sorry for her initially when she was in that tent set up.

But in quarantine for 21 days at the comfort of her own home, seems very reasonable IMO.
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Old 10-30-2014, 12:51 PM   #487
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The scientific evidence accumulated over the past 40 years suggests that the nurse in Maine is correct in her risk assessment. However, there are other, less confrontational ways to handle it. For example, she could milk the situation on social media and get sponsorship for a home gym so she can keep in shape. But that would require a more humorous attitude.
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Old 10-30-2014, 12:55 PM   #488
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Hickox likely would have just followed the CDC protocol re self monitoring for symptoms etc had she not been the only person forcibly quarantined the way she was (neither New Jersey and New York are still advocating that, after her four-day stay). She tested negative, twice. This kind of lawsuit to define what can be done re quarantining will happen sooner or later so might as well get it over with.

A Connecticut school is not letting a little girl back for 21 days because she traveled to and from Ebola-free Nigeria (Girl barred from Connecticut school amid Ebola fears - CNN.com) so maybe it would be good to have something resolved in the courts just for more guidance.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:14 PM   #489
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The Maine nurse might want to consider moving over to her neighboring state, where the motto is "Live Free or Die".
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Old 10-30-2014, 03:25 PM   #490
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A. The military rarely does anything by half-measures; and
B. It is substantially easier to violate the constitutional rights of military members than civilians.
Additionally the military personnel are still receiving paychecks. That is not the case for the civilians that may be quarantined.

From what I have heard from lawyers on the internet, forced quarantine is legal in public safety situations. The question would be is it public safety if a person is not sick?
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Old 10-30-2014, 03:57 PM   #491
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A Connecticut school is not letting a little girl back for 21 days because she traveled to and from Ebola-free Nigeria (Girl barred from Connecticut school amid Ebola fears - CNN.com) so maybe it would be good to have something resolved in the courts just for more guidance.
I absolutely agree . It would be great to have some guidelines and have them enforced .
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Old 10-30-2014, 04:32 PM   #492
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.............But in quarantine for 21 days at the comfort of her own home, seems very reasonable IMO.
Heck, I'm retired and I'd go bonkers if I had to sit home for three weeks straight.
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:15 PM   #493
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I don't think that being quarantined at home is so bad. If someone is going to run my errands and deliver groceries, I might like it... for a while.

The problem that needs to be dealt with is the illegitimate use of quarantine at the whim of political figures.
Scientific and medical facts should be the only determinant used to establish the need for quarantine.
Invoking unfounded confinement for political reasons and to pander to the fear of the uninformed is inexcusable and establishes a very dangerous precedent.
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:59 PM   #494
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I don't think that being quarantined at home is so bad. If someone is going to run my errands and deliver groceries, I might like it... for a while.

The problem that needs to be dealt with is the illegitimate use of quarantine at the whim of political figures.
Scientific and medical facts should be the only determinant used to establish the need for quarantine.
Invoking unfounded confinement for political reasons and to pander to the fear of the uninformed is inexcusable and establishes a very dangerous precedent.
After the thorough trampling and partial destruction of civil liberties by the gubmint since 2001, I find these supposed scruples about quarantine laughable.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:05 PM   #495
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The scientific evidence accumulated over the past 40 years suggests that the nurse in Maine is correct in her risk assessment. However, there are other, less confrontational ways to handle it. For example, she could milk the situation on social media and get sponsorship for a home gym so she can keep in shape. But that would require a more humorous attitude.
There are certainly less confrontational ways, but my guess is anybody that volunteers go Cameroon, Sierra Leone and the other garden spots of Africa for low pay and worse conditions doesn't scare easily.

It wasn't the mothers with kids who had HIV who meekly kept them at home, when school officials ask them to who got changes made. It was those who said hell no this is wrong and created a firestorm.

The media and the public are simple wrong about this and need to be educated not mollified.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:23 PM   #496
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After the thorough trampling and partial destruction of civil liberties by the gubmint since 2001, I find these supposed scruples about quarantine laughable.
We can resist the degeneration of those civil liberties.
We can push back, or we can surrender and go squirrel hunting.

I've got it made. Things are good for me.
No one is threatening my liberty, directly (although they have made flying more miserable than it needs to be) but complacency about basic individual rights is dangerous.
I don't have the energy, resources, or courage to make my own challenges, but at least I'll give my support to those who do.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:45 PM   #497
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We can resist the degeneration of those civil liberties.
We can push back, or we can surrender and go squirrel hunting.

I've got it made. Things are good for me.
No one is threatening my liberty, directly (although they have made flying more miserable than it needs to be) but complacency about basic individual rights is dangerous.
I don't have the energy, resources, or courage to make my own challenges, but at least I'll give my support to those who do.
So where the hell were you defending constitutional freedoms over the last 13 years?
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:07 PM   #498
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So where the hell were you defending constitutional freedoms over the last 13 years?
Mostly, I was hiding under my bed, but that doesn't diminish my appreciation of the courageous people, like Kaci Hickox, who ARE doing something to make my life better.

I'm certainly not going to promote any impediment to the service she is providing.

Do you appreciate the clever way that a double meaning is sewn into that sentence?

She is defending our civil rights, and she is helping to prevent superstition and fear from interfering with the real process of fighting the disease where it is endemic.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:13 PM   #499
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Mostly, I was hiding under my bed, but that doesn't diminish my appreciation of the courageous people, like Kaci Hickox, who ARE doing something to make my life better.

I'm certainly not going to promote any impediment to the service she is providing.

Do you appreciate the clever way that a double meaning is sewn into that sentence?

She is defending our civil rights, and she is helping to prevent superstition and fear from interfering with the real process of fighting the disease where it is endemic.

Ah, I see. Well, I hope that all works out for you. I have better things to do with my time than slobber over the media whore du jour who may actually be helping introduce the next plague into the US.

Oh, and while you were doing the little-girl-hiding-under-the-bed routine, our civil rights were taken away. You will not be getting them back short of an armed revolution in this country. Do not hold your breath.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:15 PM   #500
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Doctors without border has had more than 700 staff members treat people with Ebola and they have had exactly one staff member return home without symptoms and then develop the disease.
How many ebola aid workers have already returned home and not been quarantined? If it's on the order of the 700 number listed above and each person came into near contact with 500 people (not hard in a city), then we are looking at ~350k contacts with no ebola transmission or death.

To put this into perspective, a safe city like San Jose has about 5 murders / 100k / year. A crime ridden city like Gary IN has on order of 40-70 murders / 100k / year.

This seems to me like pretty good evidence that the current procedure recommended by CDC is safe.
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