Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-13-2014, 02:46 PM   #141
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
I heard back from the CDC. It appears that I made a mistake. Their submission form asks for business contact information and I foolishly provided it. Once they saw that I was a lawyer, they immediate shunted me off to their General Counsel's office, because communications from lawyers can only go through the GC. I have a feeling that this is an automatic screen and no one bothered to read my message to see that it was merely a suggestion as to personal protection equipment, not a legal communication. Any member of the general public could have made the same suggestion.

I am discouraged by the unthinking bureaucratic nonsense, but I think this is important, so I plan to call their GC tomorrow.
__________________

__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-13-2014, 02:58 PM   #142
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_by_the_Bay View Post
If a well-meaning courageous qualified provider got exposed, it was not his/her "fault." They have a system problem, not a provider problem.
Yes, I think the head of the CDC was way out of line to lay this on the afflicted nurse. Folks at that level are supposed to know how to speak to the public, and what you say is:
1) We have confidence in our equipment. It has been proven and it works.
2) We know from experience that health care workers have used this equipment and our present procedures to protect themselves when providing care to ebola patients, and that these health care workers did not get sick.
3) We don't yet know exactly how this infection occurred. We are studying that, and hope to learn how to improve our equipment, procedures, and training.

We probably can't afford to shut down an entire ER to treat a single patient as we are now doing. It's time to at least study the idea of establishing regional isolation/treatment facilities so we can concentrate the expertise and training in a few locations, and reduce the impact on the rest of our health care system.
__________________

__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 03:06 PM   #143
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiki View Post
This a great article and what I was trying to convey earlier: just because hospital thinks it can take care of a patient with an infectious disease does not make it true.
Yeah, how surprised should we be that an infection spread in a hospital when the most likely place in the country of getting an infection is, wait for it, in a hospital. Do they have procedures that should prevent all cross infections, yes. Are they even close to completely effective? Absolutely not.
__________________
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 03:11 PM   #144
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
We probably can't afford to shut down an entire ER to treat a single patient as we are now doing. It's time to at least study the idea of establishing regional isolation/treatment facilities so we can concentrate the expertise and training in a few locations, and reduce the impact on the rest of our health care system.
No matter how this is done, it is going to be very expensive unless it somehow gets nipped in the bud. IMO the idea of regional centers, or even supra-regional centers is best as you said.

Actually, our health care would likely be both better and cheaper if this concept were applied to many highly specialized procedures and events.

When a nuc worker or someone who is going to disarm bombs trains, he knows that his life will be on the line. Not always, but for the most part, when a health worker is trained in microbiological control he or she knows that likely third parties will suffer the consequences of slips. If chip fabs were as poorly managed as hospitals, no chip would ever work.

This must explain why it seems to be so hard to get many doctors to clean their hands. But when experienced busy and specialized joint replacement surgeons get an infection in one of their operated patients, it shows in their individual stats. Makes a big difference.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 03:23 PM   #145
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
We probably can't afford to shut down an entire ER to treat a single patient as we are now doing. It's time to at least study the idea of establishing regional isolation/treatment facilities so we can concentrate the expertise and training in a few locations, and reduce the impact on the rest of our health care system.
This...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 04:21 PM   #146
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Yes, I think the head of the CDC was way out of line to lay this on the afflicted nurse. Folks at that level are supposed to know how to speak to the public, and what you say is:
1) We have confidence in our equipment. It has been proven and it works.
2) We know from experience that health care workers have used this equipment and our present procedures to protect themselves when providing care to ebola patients, and that these health care workers did not get sick.
3) We don't yet know exactly how this infection occurred. We are studying that, and hope to learn how to improve our equipment, procedures, and training.

We probably can't afford to shut down an entire ER to treat a single patient as we are now doing. It's time to at least study the idea of establishing regional isolation/treatment facilities so we can concentrate the expertise and training in a few locations, and reduce the impact on the rest of our health care system.
+1000
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 04:37 PM   #147
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I heard back from the CDC. It appears that I made a mistake. Their submission form asks for business contact information and I foolishly provided it. Once they saw that I was a lawyer, they immediate shunted me off to their General Counsel's office, because communications from lawyers can only go through the GC. I have a feeling that this is an automatic screen and no one bothered to read my message to see that it was merely a suggestion as to personal protection equipment, not a legal communication. Any member of the general public could have made the same suggestion.

I am discouraged by the unthinking bureaucratic nonsense, but I think this is important, so I plan to call their GC tomorrow.
Gumby,

I know nothing about the CDC's inner workings. I've worked in insurance back office processing. As soon as a lawyer is mentioned they change all proceesses out of fear of liability. You are correct, they don't think/read the idea presented, just pass it to GC.

As a backup, perhaps a friend, family member could send a very similar message and not get blocked by GC. I appreciate your sharing your knowledge, and your pursuit of a great idea.
__________________
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
Sound information
Old 10-13-2014, 05:36 PM   #148
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Sound information

This is my favorite for reliable information about this horrendous disease. I realize it is pretty technical but I would be glad to clarify if I can.

Epidemiology, pathogenesis, and clinical manifestations of Ebola and Marburg virus disease

Diagnosis and treatment of Ebola and Marburg virus disease

Rich
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 05:40 PM   #149
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I heard back from the CDC. It appears that I made a mistake. Their submission form asks for business contact information and I foolishly provided it. Once they saw that I was a lawyer, they immediate shunted me off to their General Counsel's office, because communications from lawyers can only go through the GC. I have a feeling that this is an automatic screen and no one bothered to read my message to see that it was merely a suggestion as to personal protection equipment, not a legal communication. Any member of the general public could have made the same suggestion.

I am discouraged by the unthinking bureaucratic nonsense, but I think this is important, so I plan to call their GC tomorrow.
Sad, but for you another learning experience. As usual no good suggestion ever gets accepted. The NIH syndrome. NIH=Not Invented Here.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 08:21 PM   #150
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I heard back from the CDC. It appears that I made a mistake. Their submission form asks for business contact information and I foolishly provided it. Once they saw that I was a lawyer, they immediate shunted me off to their General Counsel's office, because communications from lawyers can only go through the GC. I have a feeling that this is an automatic screen and no one bothered to read my message to see that it was merely a suggestion as to personal protection equipment, not a legal communication. Any member of the general public could have made the same suggestion.

I am discouraged by the unthinking bureaucratic nonsense, but I think this is important, so I plan to call their GC tomorrow.
By all means, call the general counsel and see if you can use the lawyer secret handshake. That said, if I were you I would find another way in. You are likely in the bureaucratic BS vortex. Call your congresscritter and see if they can get through. Look at your LinkedIn or meatspace contacts and see if anyone has a connection in the CDC. Heck, if anyone on the forum has a CDC connection please PM Gumby.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 08:21 PM   #151
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_by_the_Bay View Post
This is my favorite for reliable information about this horrendous disease. I realize it is pretty technical but I would be glad to clarify if I can.

Epidemiology, pathogenesis, and clinical manifestations of Ebola and Marburg virus disease

Diagnosis and treatment of Ebola and Marburg virus disease

Rich

Thanks Rich great stuff. The one thing I heard and was confirmed by your link, is that survivors can transmit ebola, via sex. I heard that it happened 7 weeks after he had been cured. While I imagine this is something that US and European doctors warn patients about. I wonder in Africa if this message is being delivered and/or if it is be carried out.

I mean you literally cheat death, and after a few weeks of being cured, it is hard to blame a guy to celebrate life by having some fun.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 08:39 AM   #152
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DFW_M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp View Post
Thanks Rich great stuff. The one thing I heard and was confirmed by your link, is that survivors can transmit ebola, via sex. I heard that it happened 7 weeks after he had been cured. While I imagine this is something that US and European doctors warn patients about. I wonder in Africa if this message is being delivered and/or if it is be carried out.

I mean you literally cheat death, and after a few weeks of being cured, it is hard to blame a guy to celebrate life by having some fun.
Hopefully, increased study in US and around the world will lead to more definitive knowledge about transmission, persistence, etc and that a vaccine will be developed.
__________________
Doing things today that others won't, to do things tomorrow that others can't. Of course I'm referring to workouts, not robbing banks.
DFW_M5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 08:44 AM   #153
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
Hopefully, increased study in US and around the world will lead to more definitive knowledge about transmission, persistence, etc and that a vaccine will be developed.
A vaccine has been developed which provides 100% immunity in animals. Phase 1 trials in human volunteers are underway this week.

Canadian Ebola vaccine begins human trials
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 09:26 AM   #154
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DFW_M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
A vaccine has been developed which provides 100% immunity in animals. Phase 1 trials in human volunteers are underway this week.

Canadian Ebola vaccine begins human trials
Its good sign, and I believe there are a few experimental vaccines thus far, but I was referring to and should have indicated "approved vaccines".
__________________
Doing things today that others won't, to do things tomorrow that others can't. Of course I'm referring to workouts, not robbing banks.
DFW_M5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 11:08 AM   #155
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
Our hospitals are not designed to care for such infections diseases. I think the CDC should consider designing an building stand alone modules where care can be safely delivered. When a person is identified as having a disease such as Ebola move the medical equipment necessary into that building.

A small module could be placed in major metro areas and 'field additions' stationed in warehouses to ramp up capacity where needed.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 12:24 PM   #156
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat View Post
Our hospitals are not designed to care for such infections diseases. I think the CDC should consider designing an building stand alone modules where care can be safely delivered. When a person is identified as having a disease such as Ebola move the medical equipment necessary into that building.

A small module could be placed in major metro areas and 'field additions' stationed in warehouses to ramp up capacity where needed.
Factory-built modules that could be delivered to where they are needed...that sounds like a great idea.
__________________
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 08:12 PM   #157
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
Their use would not be limited to Ebola, doubtless other contagious diseases will surface.

It just isn't practical to have a level 3 (4 or whatever) infectious disease treatment facility in every trauma center. We need separate (perhaps even eventually disposable) facilities with their own ventilation, sanitation systems. Build a small 'base' unit designed to accommodate modules for more patients.

Don't mix those patents in a large hospital setting.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 09:09 PM   #158
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 2,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat View Post
Their use would not be limited to Ebola, doubtless other contagious diseases will surface.

It just isn't practical to have a level 3 (4 or whatever) infectious disease treatment facility in every trauma center. We need separate (perhaps even eventually disposable) facilities with their own ventilation, sanitation systems. Build a small 'base' unit designed to accommodate modules for more patients.

Don't mix those patents in a large hospital setting.
Actually it would be easy to use 40 foot containers for this purpose. It could be divided into a patient room and a vestibule for gowning up and down. Since they make housing out of the containers its a readily available and transportable solution.
__________________
meierlde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 09:29 PM   #159
Moderator
Ronstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A little ways southwest of Chicago
Posts: 9,336
Great concept, but getting sewer, water, and electricity to these facilities would be hurdles in getting them up and running quickly.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
Ronstar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 10:14 PM   #160
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MooreBonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar View Post
Great concept, but getting sewer, water, and electricity to these facilities would be hurdles in getting them up and running quickly.
The hospital that took the Liberian citizen said that they cleared out the entire ICU, and had to close their ER. I think I remembered reading somewhere that their ICU alone was something like 20 beds!

Do you realize the cost of this for just 1 day, let alone 1-2 weeks? Would be far cheaper to hire a contractor to do an emergency site prep for 1 or 2 pad preps virtually anywhere, compared to letting your entire ICU and ER sit vacant for 1 patient.
__________________

__________________
Dryer sheets Schmyer sheets
MooreBonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ebola brewer12345 Other topics 126 08-06-2014 05:54 PM
I think Texas has a great idea here... mickeyd Other topics 2 06-21-2004 07:55 PM
Anyone want to excavate or survey in Texas? mickeyd Other topics 0 06-08-2004 03:22 PM
Hello from Texas lauraf13 Hi, I am... 1 07-19-2002 11:15 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:06 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.