Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-15-2014, 08:43 AM   #181
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
If true (and I suspect it is true) this is a scathing indictment of emergency preparedness. Sloppiness like this kills people. I expect many other facilities would be no better prepared. The bar needs to be raised, now. No wonder the CDC will be sending a Swat team with equipment to every new case.
The hospital in Dallas is totally unsuitable for this type of care. They would be totally incapable of handling more that a couple of cases. This type of care is not something they are equiped to deal with let alone on a large scale.

The obvious incompetents at the CDC needs to do more than send people to whichever facility "won" the Ebola lottery. A whole facility needs to be established geared towards handling multiple cases. This can start as a small area but it need to be able to grow as needed if this thing gets out of hand.

I would avoid this Dallas hospital and I suspect most people will. A dedicated facility is needed.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-15-2014, 08:49 AM   #182
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
If true (and I suspect it is true) this is a scathing indictment of emergency preparedness. Sloppiness like this kills people. I expect many other facilities would be no better prepared. The bar needs to be raised, now. No wonder the CDC will be sending a Swat team with equipment to every new case.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news/...es_charge.html
What is more concerning is that Ebola shouldn't be a tough virus to handle. Imagine if this was a more contagious virus? The results wouldn't be pretty.

I think sloppiness to some extent is unavoidable. That's why you have to have a process that mitigates sloppiness. What's interesting is that we still don't know why the RN became infected with Ebola. It's assumed that she must have slipped up, but as far as we know she followed the appropriate process and still became infected. I'm skeptical we'll ever really know how she became infected, but there really are only two options: there was a break in protocol or the protocol isn't 100%.

It seems to me that it would be appropriate to require staff to work in teams. This way they can at least identify what went wrong when it happens and overall, having additional oversight makes people more honest. No short cuts and an extra set of eyes to notice any inadvertent slip-ups. Or maybe video monitoring of patient care so it can be reviewed after the fact? This would be cheaper and would at least allow post-analysis in case something does go wrong.
tulak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 08:52 AM   #183
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Just south of Rochester
Posts: 119
If I were living in Texas, I would question whether the Department of Health there is up to the task. After all, Ebola patients were admitted to three other hospitals in three other states and survived and the virus didn't spread to the staff. Why was Texas the only one, so far, that lost control of the situation?
vince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:06 AM   #184
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MuirWannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,107
This is really hitting too close to home. The apartment complex where this second health care worker lives is the same one my DD lives in. And my DD is a nurse in Dallas although thankfully at a different hospital.

I've already told DD to avoid the gym in the complex just in case any sweat was left on machines from the infected resident. I'm sure such a scenario is deeply unlikely but hey, it's my DD. Trying not freak out but this is getting our attention for certain. It's the scenarios we can't think of that really have me worried.

Muir
__________________
“Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.” John Muir
MuirWannabe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:13 AM   #185
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince View Post
If I were living in Texas, I would question whether the Department of Health there is up to the task. After all, Ebola patients were admitted to three other hospitals in three other states and survived and the virus didn't spread to the staff. Why was Texas the only one, so far, that lost control of the situation?
I would say poor information/training protocols and onsite follow-up from the CDC and fact that Duncan was the first patient to be diagnosed in the US. The real issue to me is that they missed this the first time Duncan visited the hospital, but again I suspect that was due to mindset it could never happen here and was the first such occurance.
eytonxav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:17 AM   #186
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince View Post
If I were living in Texas, I would question whether the Department of Health there is up to the task. After all, Ebola patients were admitted to three other hospitals in three other states and survived and the virus didn't spread to the staff. Why was Texas the only one, so far, that lost control of the situation?
Texas was the only state that had a bozo walk in off the street with Ebola. All the other facilities were special facilities selected for their expertise in these types of cases.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:19 AM   #187
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
But how long does it take to confirm a case of Ebola? Honestly I don't know, but I wonder if those tests would take a day or two, perhaps? Then, I am envisioning another day or two for the newly created response team to travel to the hospital in question and report in at that location. I am wondering if by the time they get there, the hospital may have been making unintentional mistakes for days.

I do hope that the CDC is at least e-mailing informational packets immediately to hospitals with even unconfirmed cases of ebola, and perhaps consulting with the proper folks at these hospitals via Skype or telephone.

We live in the 21st century, not the 19th, and sending out a response team sounds like sending mail via the pony express, to me. Sure, having experts actually physically there would be wonderful. But also, information can be sent by much faster methods.
That's a good question. I know they do a rapid-blood test to see if you have Ebola, but I can't find how long this takes. My guess is that's in the order of hours, not days.

Also, if you are suspected of Ebola, then you are immediately quarantined until the results come back. They assume that you are infected until proven otherwise, which is the right approach. I'm guessing that the earlier stages of Ebola aren't as contagious, which can provide some time before CDC/trained staff arrives.

I still believe that you need to have staff that has been trained to deal with this type of outbreak on-site. It's not enough to send information. There's a big difference in learning something and having actual experiencing in dealing with something. The latter is needed in this case and it looks like that is what's happening, which is good.
tulak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:28 AM   #188
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
The real issue to me is that they missed this the first time Duncan visited the hospital, but again I suspect that was due to mindset it could never happen here and was the first such occurance.
DW gives me grief over this but I have told her that the biggest reason he wasn't admitted the first time is that it is almost certain that he had no insurance and the doctor involved had no clue what he had. I suspect that the hospital discourages random admittance of uninsured patients unless it's obviously critical.

From the reports I've read the guy clearly had a fever (103 F - I recall correctly) but that in itself isn't life threatening. He was sent home with antibiotics which wouldn't help a viral infection. Was that a misdiagnosis or just giving the guy something to get him out the door? There was also clearly a miscommunication that this guy was not flagged as being from an ebola area. The whole thing was done properly if he had a serious bacterial infection and was from Kenya (not intending to be political but I couldn't resist ). It's easy to be critical with 20/20 hindsight.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 09:41 AM   #189
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,171
Aparently, in Africa, experts watch each person put on their gear and take off their gear making sure they do it correctly. In the USA, we assume our hospital workers are so competent that they don't need the expert. Not so good.
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy

The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:01 AM   #190
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
Aparently, in Africa, experts watch each person put on their gear and take off their gear making sure they do it correctly. In the USA, we assume our hospital workers are so competent that they don't need the expert. Not so good.
It's hard to believe this is not being done for something this serious. Where I worked we had to be qualified to use protective clothing. We were requaled/trained annually. We worked in teams. They were monitors ( people ) to do nothing but oversight ( not involved in the actual activity) to ensure things were done per procedure. We also had emergency procedures and were trained and drilled on them. The work activities were done with detailed procedures. Video surveillance was used to remotely monitor all activities. The job would be shutdown for "protocol" failures. The video was used to determine what went wrong and prevented finger pointing .

Based on what is coming out, the CDC and medical industry is flying by the seat of their pants and making things up as they go.
rbmrtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:02 AM   #191
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiki View Post
I still believe that you need to have staff that has been trained to deal with this type of outbreak on-site. It's not enough to send information. There's a big difference in learning something and having actual experiencing in dealing with something. The latter is needed in this case and it looks like that is what's happening, which is good.
Exactly. Written instructions and brochures are not up to this task. In-person training, practicing under supervision with real PPE, and STRICT adherence with policing are required to get the techniques consistently right. It is very challenging to work while wearing Level 4 PPE.
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:13 AM   #192
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmrtn View Post
It's hard to believe this is not being done for something this serious.

Based on what is coming out, the CDC and medical industry is flying by the seat of their pants and making things up as they go.
The hospital in Dallas was not designed for or intended to ever handle anything like ebola. The crime here was their attempt to handle it.

I believe there are four hospitals in the US designed for this type of contageous disease. I wonder where our two new cases are being treated. I fear that the same hospital is trying to deal with it. I am sure that even with all the "learning" they've experienced this is not the right place for these new patients.

I'm pretty sure it's not cost effective to attempt to get every hospital in the US up to the standards necessary to handle ebola. I think it sure makes sense for contingency plans to be developed to establish regional treatment centers that specialize in ebola.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:28 AM   #193
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,109
The preparation of a 'pad' for a module for infectious disease patients can be done in advance. Water, electricity connections is easy to do. I would design a separate sewerage containment facility, perhaps an incinerator. The module can be moved to the site as needed. IMHO it needs to be designed to accommodate several ganged together. If not Ebola then another deadly disease.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:35 AM   #194
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 534
The second infected nurse flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before reporting her symptoms.



CDC says second nurse diagnosed with Ebola flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before she reported symptoms | Dallas Morning News


The CDC says she flew Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth International on October 13, landing at 8:16 Dallas time. The CDC is asking all 132 passengers who flew on that trip to call 1-800-232-4636.
jon-nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:40 AM   #195
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon-nyc View Post
The CDC says she flew Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth International on October 13, landing at 8:16 Dallas time. The CDC is asking all 132 passengers who flew on that trip to call 1-800-232-4636.
Don't they have a flight manifest?

It seems like it should be the CDC calling, not the other way around.
tulak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:45 AM   #196
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon-nyc View Post
The second infected nurse flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before reporting her symptoms.



CDC says second nurse diagnosed with Ebola flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before she reported symptoms | Dallas Morning News


The CDC says she flew Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth International on October 13, landing at 8:16 Dallas time. The CDC is asking all 132 passengers who flew on that trip to call 1-800-232-4636.
WTF is wrong with the system? Why were all of the workers that had anything to do with this patient quarantined?
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

- George Orwell

Ezekiel 23:20
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:46 AM   #197
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
WTF is wrong with the system? Why were all of the workers that had anything to do with this patient quarantined?
I am wondering about that too. I thought all the contacts were being monitored. I was assuming their travel would be restricted. I certainly didn't think they would be going to Cleveland.
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:51 AM   #198
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,171
What is interesting is that so far non of the people who actually lived in the same apartment as the fellow who died of Ebola have contracted the disease. Or am I wrong?
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy

The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:55 AM   #199
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
easysurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,130
I think along with fast tracking ZMapp, them folks really need to think about trying to build a better Hazmat suit (one that's easier to take off without getting infected) or a better decontamination area.
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
easysurfer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 10:58 AM   #200
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuirWannabe View Post
This is really hitting too close to home. The apartment complex where this second health care worker lives is the same one my DD lives in. And my DD is a nurse in Dallas although thankfully at a different hospital.

I've already told DD to avoid the gym in the complex just in case any sweat was left on machines from the infected resident. I'm sure such a scenario is deeply unlikely but hey, it's my DD. Trying not freak out but this is getting our attention for certain. It's the scenarios we can't think of that really have me worried.

Muir

Yikes! That would be way too close for comfort for me.
hausfrau is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ebola brewer12345 Other topics 126 08-06-2014 04:54 PM
I think Texas has a great idea here... mickeyd Other topics 2 06-21-2004 06:55 PM
Anyone want to excavate or survey in Texas? mickeyd Other topics 0 06-08-2004 02:22 PM
Hello from Texas lauraf13 Hi, I am... 1 07-19-2002 10:15 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:55 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.