Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-30-2016, 09:14 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,495
Doctors view end of life scenarios differently than the general population:

How doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us, but it should be Cancerworld

Quote:
Its not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And they dont die like the rest of us. Whats unusual about them is not how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But they go gently.
emphasis added
__________________

__________________
Options is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-30-2016, 09:49 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
I am not aware of any LTC insurance that insures only the long tail of an extended stay. That would indeed be insurance and I would be interested in buying a product like that.

What I have seen is all the policies I've been offered have a cap on the number of years to claim benefits, but no cap on the premium increases allowed. No thank you.
We don't have one, my worry is without caps on premiums, after I pay into it for 20 years, they can just increase the premiums drastically every year until I have to stop paying.
Then maybe I'll need it, but I won't have it, or the cash spent trying to keep it.
__________________

__________________
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 03:11 AM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,132
for the amount of money we would have to plunk down in the tristate area for enough coverage with one of those linked benefit plans , at those low return rates we can invest that sum normally and pay the premium on a real ltc plan for just a piece of our gains .

which is what we did . bought a new york state partnership plan . we wanted it for all the great perks after the 3 years insurance was up .
__________________
mathjak107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 05:56 AM   #24
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 907
Continuing to self insure. If we can't cover potential costs given net worth then neither will 99% of the country. If I'm wrong, which won't be the first time, we will have to make do with "misery loves company" of which I figure there will be plenty.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
LARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 06:40 AM   #25
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
for the amount of money we would have to plunk down in the tristate area for enough coverage with one of those linked benefit plans , at those low return rates we can invest that sum normally and pay the premium on a real ltc plan for just a piece of our gains .

which is what we did . bought a new york state partnership plan . we wanted it for all the great perks after the 3 years insurance was up .
Everybody needs to make up their own mind and it's sounds like you did want you wanted/needed. For us though, I hated the use it or lose it aspect of a standalone LTC policy. With a LTC rider, the cash and or the death benefit is still there if you don't use the policy.
__________________
COcheesehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 07:04 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARS View Post
Continuing to self insure. If we can't cover potential costs given net worth then neither will 99% of the country.

Same here-and some nursing homes are willing to take you if you have enough to self-pay for X years and then will accept Medicaid. I'd be darned skeptical of that promise but do know at least one person who said her mother had that deal and they kept their word. I figure I'll be better off than people who have Medicaid only, or LTC coverage that covers only a fraction of the costs.
__________________
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 08:19 AM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by COcheesehead View Post
Everybody needs to make up their own mind and it's sounds like you did want you wanted/needed. For us though, I hated the use it or lose it aspect of a standalone LTC policy. With a LTC rider, the cash and or the death benefit is still there if you don't use the policy.

years ago money magazine did a story on my wife and i . they wanted to pit me and my do it yourself planning against their team of pro's .

the one area we differed is on self insuring ltc.

i wanted to self insure and they were against it for lots of reasons .

i realized they were right .

there were just so many negatives to it as well as the fact most folks really do not self insure .

they just have their portfolio invested as it always is as the money is all lumped together and worse is counted as part of the income stream .

don't forget a safe withdrawal rate assumes that income can drive the balance left over to near zero .

on top of which a sudden need for that money may find markets have a substantial piece gone , or gains did not keep up with inflation or you just don't have enough saved .

what happens too is the stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode and money that should be spent on better levels of care now begins to have 2nd thoughts attached .

we use one of the most popular estate attorneys in nyc and long island and the bulk of his cases are the so called self insurers who just had reality dropped on them and now the stay at home spouse is in panic mode .

self insuring , really means setting a side a large sum of money , safe and secure as an insurer would where it is always there and ready and not in the income stream and that means low returns .

the math said that the average returns we get being able to invest normally and taking a policy instead would actually pay for the policy and provide more left over then self insuring would .

what really was the deal maker was the perks after the insurance ran out .

we have 100% asset protection with no asset shifting , a special form of medicaid picking up the bills as long as it is accepted by the home and most important no income limitations for the stay at home spouse .

it can be great you preserved a million bucks in assets , but now try having the stay at home spouse living on it if medicaid is needed . you can't , as they will normally take everything over your states max allowed .

we have total asset and income protection with our partnership plan . as long as the premiums are manageable by us we will kweep it going .

if not , well we were covered up to that point . my co-worker had a stroke at 55 and his stay at home spouse is now impoverished . so it isn't like you are paying for the future only .
__________________
mathjak107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 08:20 AM   #28
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Country
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Options View Post
Doctors view end of life scenarios differently than the general population:

How doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us, but it should be Cancerworld



emphasis added
Thanks for sharing this was a very interesting article allot of could learn from IMO. But I guess the will to live usually over rides reality in several cases?
__________________
tps7742 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 08:32 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,527
The benefits of the State Partnerships can really be a significant help to many of the folks on this board (who have assets that their spouse might need if the first spouse goes into LTC).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we have 100% asset protection with no asset shifting , a special form of medicaid picking up the bills as long as it is accepted by the home and most important no income limitations for the stay at home spouse .
So, like those of us who may be planning to shift assets and tough things out for the 5 year Medicaid lookback period, you still need to count on finding a nursing home that will accept the Medicaid rate, right? I don't know how big a problem that would be now, or how big it will be 2 or 3 decades down the road.
And as far as the "100% asset protection", your assets are protected (from being considered re: Medicaid eligibiliity and for post-death recovery of costs by the state) only up to the limit of the insurance policy you bought, right? That can still be very significant, but in most state partnerships of which I am aware, the only assets that are "protected" are those under the value of the LTC policy (e.g. buy a LTC insurance policy with $500K in benefits, then you can be eligible for Medicaid coverage once you've spent down your assets to the $500K level).
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 08:35 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,132
nope , our assets are protected unlimited . what you are referring to is a dollar for a dollar plan . that is where assets are protected only up to what medicaid spends .

in ny we have 2 plans available , dollar for a dollar which is cheaper or total asset and income which is what we have .

out of state our total asset plan would revert to dollar for a dollar so it really needs to be used here .

we have the total asset 3/6/50

http://www.nyspltc.org/expansion.htm
__________________
mathjak107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 08:41 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
nope , our assets are protected unlimited
Thanks. I don't think that is available in many partnerships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
what you are referring to is a dollar for a dollar plan . that is where assets are protected only up to what medicaid spends .
That's not the way I understand it. It doesn't matter what Medicaid spends--once you've spent your assets down to the coverage limit of your policy and you've used up the benefits of the policy, then Medicaid starts making payments at their regular rate. This is the most common form of asset protection available through the LTC State Partnerships.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 08:43 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,132
well read the above . that is not how it works for the ny total asset plan . we have two plan types available. dollar for dollar is the one you are referring to. total asset is covered regardless what is spent .
__________________
mathjak107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 08:52 AM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,132
nice summary here :

" The original Partnership plan, known as a total asset protection policy, offers 3 years of nursing home coverage or 6 years of home care or assisted living coverage or any combination of the two. Home care and assisted living benefits are fifty percent of the selected nursing home benefit. If you exhaust the benefits of the policy and still need care, you can apply for Medicaid without having to spend down any of your assets.

Currently, an individual would have to spend down to approximately $14,200 in order to apply for Medicaid; the approximate spend down for couples is up to a minimum of $75,000 and a maximum of $115,000.
In addition to the spend down requirements, there are also transfer of asset rules known as the “look back” period and “penalty” period. According to the law office of Bertine, Hufnagel, Headley, Zeltner, Drummond and Dohn, “when an individual applies for Medicaid, Department of Social Services servicing the county in which the applicant resides will look back at the individual’s records for a five year period to determine whether any gifts were made.“

“If any gifts were made during the look back period, a penalty period will be imposed and the individual will be ineligible for Medicaid benefits for the duration of the penalty period. The length of the penalty period is always measured in months and it is calculated by dividing the amount of the gift by the average monthly cost of nursing home care for the area in which the applicant lives.”

Currently, there are three NYS Partnership total asset protection policies for which there are no look back or penalty periods. There is the original Partnership plan known as Total Asset 3/6/50 as well as Total Asset 2/4/50 and Total Asset 100. "


as far as income protection , at the moment they request you contribute 25% of the income over the medicaid limits for care but right now it is a request . even if it is made a mandatory 25% , 25% of a 6 figure income is a great deal compared to the 2990.00 a month allowed in ny if medicaid is used . living in nyc on 2990.00 would be pretty miserable for us .
__________________
mathjak107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 05:35 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,338
We bought LTC insurance nearly 30 years ago thru mega corp. Dail coverage amount & premiums have increased a lot, but today yearly premiums represent about a week's worth of daily payout - which is 60-80% of daily rates. Also covers assisted living at 80% of nursing home. DW is all for it given her mother spent 5 yrs in nursing home and my mom a year+ in assisted care. So we pay on.
__________________

__________________
gerntz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ric Edelman Moneygrubber FIRE and Money 20 01-29-2016 05:35 PM
Edelman vs Do It Alone kannon FIRE and Money 121 10-15-2014 05:56 PM
Ric Edelman and having a big mortgage veremchuka FIRE and Money 72 03-11-2012 03:18 PM
(FAQ archive): Long-term care (LTC) and LTC insurance Nords Early Retirement FAQs 0 10-24-2007 11:02 AM
Ric Edelman's new book gindie FIRE and Money 3 10-03-2007 09:49 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.