Fasting for health

[Amethyst]

And if you're a woman, you could lose bone mass, too. Which in my case, I cannot afford.

Amethyst

When you fast you lose muscle as well as fat. You have to take steps to avoid losing muscle.

 

[haha]

Even better, why not just add some muscle?

Muscles are good at soaking up glucose, especially well-exercised muscle. Insulin levels go up when your body is trying to remove glucose from the blood and store it in appropriate cells. The body will increase insulin production when it has a difficult time storing glucose (too much intake of glucose producing food, cells not being receptive to insulin's message to store glucose, or a combination of the two).

I was a full blown diabetic at 12.7 A1c. Eating low carb and lots of long, slow, steady-state cardio brought it down to 7 in about six weeks (with the help of medication). There was some intermittent fasting in there as well, usually on the days I did a lot of cardio. I continued to improve doing that - got off the mediation - but I plateaued with an A1c in the high 5's. The really good changes happened when I started doing a lot of weight training and changed to high-intensity-interval-training for most of my cardio. My A1c dropped and has stayed in the low 5's (5.2 last time) without any medication. I generally eat 4-5 times a day using a low-carb diet rich in green veggies with a lot of lean meat (and some bacon too).

I don't have a problem doing some fasting, and I think it helped a little in the early stages of trying to fix my diabetes, but adding muscle and dropping body fat by means of high intensity athletic training with an emphasis on weight training while eating low-carb is what got me to where I wanted to be.

It's been a while since I've done my research, but I recall concerns about fasting actually causing an increase in insulin production and body fat because your metabolism is responding to it's perception that you're living in a time of famine.

My takeaway from my research and experience is that it's better to reduce your body's need to create more insulin by reducing the load (less glucose produced from food), and making your body more insulin sensitive by increasing it's ability to store glucose efficiently (reduce fat and add muscle mass through some cardio and strength training.

Leonids, that is a very impressive achievement. I think this is the pathway to favor. It also happens that a paper by a Duke cardiologist Wm E Kraus cam out in the last few days with the same conclusions. It takes a real time and effort commitment but you cured your diabetes!

Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[zerogravity]

I was scheduled to have a fasting blood test for my annual physical, but forgot and ate breakfast by mistake. Oops. So much for fasting.

 

[HFWR]

Good overview here...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/intermittent-fasting-science-and-supplementation.html

 

[rgarling]

This might be a good time to re-recommend Thomas Seyfried's book,
"Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management and Prevention of Cancer". Synopsis here: Cancer: causes and cures

As for me, short fasts (1 or 2 days) don't help lower blood sugar; however, I generally have coffee during fasting which confounds things. Seyfried indicates that some individuals can't achieve therapeutic levels of blood glucose while drinking coffee. Anyhow, I hope to try a longer fast soon, and do it without coffee.

 

[REWahoo]

You think this lady did a little fasting before she set a Guinness World Record?

Woman eats three 72-ounce steaks in 20 minutes - CNN.com

 

[audreyh1]

Even better, why not just add some muscle?

Muscles are good at soaking up glucose, especially well-exercised muscle. Insulin levels go up when your body is trying to remove glucose from the blood and store it in appropriate cells. The body will increase insulin production when it has a difficult time storing glucose (too much intake of glucose producing food, cells not being receptive to insulin's message to store glucose, or a combination of the two).

I was a full blown diabetic at 12.7 A1c. Eating low carb and lots of long, slow, steady-state cardio brought it down to 7 in about six weeks (with the help of medication). There was some intermittent fasting in there as well, usually on the days I did a lot of cardio. I continued to improve doing that - got off the mediation - but I plateaued with an A1c in the high 5's. The really good changes happened when I started doing a lot of weight training and changed to high-intensity-interval-training for most of my cardio. My A1c dropped and has stayed in the low 5's (5.2 last time) without any medication. I generally eat 4-5 times a day using a low-carb diet rich in green veggies with a lot of lean meat (and some bacon too).

I don't have a problem doing some fasting, and I think it helped a little in the early stages of trying to fix my diabetes, but adding muscle and dropping body fat by means of high intensity athletic training with an emphasis on weight training while eating low-carb is what got me to where I wanted to be.

It's been a while since I've done my research, but I recall concerns about fasting actually causing an increase in insulin production and body fat because your metabolism is responding to it's perception that you're living in a time of famine.

My takeaway from my research and experience is that it's better to reduce your body's need to create more insulin by reducing the load (less glucose produced from food), and making your body more insulin sensitive by increasing it's ability to store glucose efficiently (reduce fat and add muscle mass through some cardio and strength training.

I'm really glad you brought up increasing muscle mass as an alternative to fasting.

Also the good reminder that well-exercised muscles are good at burning glucose and that increasing fitness can help reverse insulin resistance.

 

[audreyh1]

Leonids, that is a very impressive achievement. I think this is the pathway to favor. It also happens that a paper by a Duke cardiologist Wm E Kraus cam out in the last few days with the same conclusions. It takes a real time and effort commitment but you cured your diabetes!

Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Leonids other recent posts talk about really high intensity interval training and how that can improve insulin sensitivity of the muscles.

FWIW - I found this video for setting up the Concept 2 for the Tabata type interval training. I may try this.

This one may be better because it sets up for a limited number of intervals with PM3 or PM4.

I also found this suggested interval routine for the Concept 2.
Tabata Rowing Machine Workouts - Unbiased Rowing Machine Reviews | 62 Top Selling Models Tested

 

[Leonidas]

Leonids other recent posts talk about really high intensity interval training and how that can improve insulin sensitivity of the muscles.

Actually, I think hiit's advantage is that it is good for fat burning without much risk of losing muscle mass. You will burn some glucose, and the muscles affected will temporarily increase their sensitivity to insulin, but I don't think it's very significant.

Long, slow cardio will burn a lot of glucose. But too much of it can eat up muscle. I can't think of anybody who wants to lose muscle.

Strength training is really the way to become insulin sensitive. Recently exercised muscle gobbles up glucose (there's a sort of golden hour after strength training). and the more muscle mass you have the more efficient you are at being insulin sensitive.

 

[audreyh1]

Actually, I think hiit's advantage is that it is good for fat burning without much risk of losing muscle mass. You will burn some glucose, and the muscles affected will temporarily increase their sensitivity to insulin, but I don't think it's very significant.

Long, slow cardio will burn a lot of glucose. But too much of it can eat up muscle. I can't think of anybody who wants to lose muscle.

Strength training is really the way to become insulin sensitive. Recently exercised muscle gobbles up glucose (there's a sort of golden hour after strength training). and the more muscle mass you have the more efficient you are at being insulin sensitive.

The video linked in the Exercise to Lower BP thread said (and showed) that HIIT increased insulin sensitivity after just 4 weeks. The "guinea pig" in the video who was borderline had like a 23% improvement.

Dr. Michael Mosley has done some great diet and exercise programmes here is one about high impact, short duration exercise

The Truth About Exercise - Video Dailymotion

 

[haha]

Thanks Audrey for the Concept 2 set-up videos. I think I am least likely to get injured using the concept 2 for these Tabata Intervals. Sprinting is a no-no from my hip doctor, and kettlebells might be good but it is easier for me to lose form and get injured. Years ago I did intervals with dumbbells- bilateral clean and jerk, with floor touch between each rep. Pretty good, but it helped to be young.

Previously I just counted strokes for C2 intervals, but I am less likely to cheat under the clock.

Ha

 

[audreyh1]

I think that may be my best option too for the same reasons. I can't get my effort level up high enough power walking. No prob getting that HR up on the Concept 2!

 

[eytonxav]

Most body builders cut to get down to very low levels of body fat by reduced caloric intake over a period of months, while continuing to workout. Do that and carefully watch your nutritional balance (protein/fats/carbs) and you might get equally good results vs outright fasting. Disclosure, I haven't done either, but seems like a more reasonable approach to me. I am probably in the same boat as you, having remained in mid 5 A1C levels for years, but in my case, I should be about 25 lbs lighter than my 200 lb weight.

 

[HFWR]

Most body builders cut to get down to very low levels of body fat by reduced caloric intake over a period of months, while continuing to workout. Do that and carefully watch your nutritional balance (protein/fats/carbs) and you might get equally good results vs outright fasting. Disclosure, I haven't done either, but seems like a more reasonable approach to me. I am probably in the same boat as you, having remained in mid 5 A1C levels for years, but in my case, I should be about 25 lbs lighter than my 200 lb weight.

Though the level of body fat (high single digits) for competition is likely neither healthy nor sustainable for "normal" folk...

 

[audreyh1]

If you build muscle and are measurably stronger, but you don't lose weight, you've still obviously lost fat and replaced it with muscle. Muscle is heavier than fat per volume, so you would also drop some clothes sizes under this scenario.

 

[robertf57]

Although there may be some value in intermittent fasting in and of itself, and there certainly is value in both cardio and strength training; if the goal is to reduce insulin levels and decrease HA1c as originally posted, a more direct approach is to remove carbohydrates from the diet. Particularly if you get down to a carbohydrate intake that leads to ketosis.

 

[eytonxav]

Though the level of body fat (high single digits) for competition is likely neither healthy nor sustainable for "normal" folk...

Its actually more like 4%, but what I was trying to imply was to just cut/reduce calories vs eliminating them entirely. You are correct that low levels of body fat that body builders get down to for a show is not healthy for very long.