Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Flash- A Sane Person Comments On Federal Health Care
Old 08-23-2010, 06:20 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Flash- A Sane Person Comments On Federal Health Care

Boston University economist Laurence Kotlikoff in a short interview with Aaron Task:

obamacare has "no credible mechanism" to keep costs down but it can be done: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance

I also recommend his website for some cogent, non-partisan reality based thought.

http://kotlikoff.net/
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-24-2010, 04:27 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,288
I guess this thread is too hot to touch?


I think a lot of 'no credible cost containment mechanism' comments were made right on this very forum while the bill(s) were being debated. Someone is going to have to pull a rabbit out a hat. Actually, not a bad metaphor, since most magic tricks rely on distracting the audience from what is really happening. Politics (of all stripes) is often the same.

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2010, 05:20 PM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
Carnage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 76
I was going to make a comment, but what passed was what could pass. It wasn't what the left wanted, (and the right didn't seem to want it either) but it's what could pass both houses. Do I think it's an improvement, yes. Does it fix the system, no. I don't know what mechanism could hold prices down further, and going to panels strikes me as more red tape, not less.

I'd rather pay higher taxes and get universal healthcare, but that's just me. Regardless of what you believe, the subject is mind-numbingly complex.

This article points to the multiple problems of our health care system.
__________________
Carnage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2010, 05:38 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage View Post
I don't know what mechanism could hold prices down further...
Read his book and you will know. It's short and straight to the point. It also shows with simple data and arithmetic how the health bill did make it worse, and how eventually we (USA) will make large fundamental reforms or we will go down in flames.

Amazon.com: The Healthcare Fix: Universal Insurance for All Americans (9780262113144): Laurence J. Kotlikoff: Books

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 12:28 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Read his book and you will know. It's short and straight to the point. It also shows with simple data and arithmetic how the health bill did make it worse, and how eventually we (USA) will make large fundamental reforms or we will go down in flames.
Yah, but which will let an officeholder do better in the next election, fundamental reforms or 'down in flames'? 'Down in flames' makes a better 30 second spot, and a good incumbent can always have a PAC blame his opponent or opponent's party somehow.

Anyone hoping for sanity or fundamental reforms is out of luck in the current environment.

The 'if this goes on' path has funny, unsustainable results. For example, if I manage to make it 30 years, at the average 15% annual rate of increase, my family medical insurance premium will have gone up to 66 times the current rate, to about $728,329.49 annually.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 12:35 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Yah, but which will let an officeholder do better in the next election, fundamental reforms or 'down in flames'? 'Down in flames' makes a better 30 second spot, and a good incumbent can always have a PAC blame his opponent or opponent's party somehow.

Anyone hoping for sanity or fundamental reforms is out of luck in the current environment.
You are likely correct. We may be living in the twilight of US style democracy.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 01:14 PM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
You are likely correct. We may be living in the twilight of US style democracy.

Ha
Gawd, it's too depressing to think about any more. I'm going to hop in the Miata and go do some global warming for a while.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 04:03 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
You are likely correct. We may be living in the twilight of US style democracy.

Ha
I remember my (late) FIL watching hippies marching in the street circa 1968 and saying essentially the same thing.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 04:30 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
I remember my (late) FIL watching hippies marching in the street circa 1968 and saying essentially the same thing.
Sure; and my idea could be as accurate as his. Still, a 40 year twilight might still be a twilight. Many people live into their 80s and 90s, and a generation today is 30+ years. A rock may roll slowly down hill before suddenly going over a precipice.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 05:38 PM   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
I remember my (late) FIL watching hippies marching in the street circa 1968 and saying essentially the same thing.
Well, yeah. I think we may be a little farther down that road, though.

When I first read this story some 40 years ago, I thought it was pretty funny, and quite silly. I just re-read it, and it's not quite as funny now.
The Marching Morons C. M. Kornbluth - fantasy fiction political satyre sci-fi short-story - Wattpad

As far as the origin of the nonsense that keeps us from addressing health care issues, I ran across this just a few minutes ago.
Greetings from Idiot America - Esquire

Quote:
Idiot America is a bad place for crazy notions. Its indolent tolerance of them causes the classic American crank to drift slowly and dangerously into the mainstream, wherein the crank loses all of his charm and the country loses another piece of its mind. The best thing about American crackpots used to be that they would stand proudly aloof from a country that, by their peculiar lights, had gone mad. Not today. Today, they all have book deals, TV shows, and cases pending in federal court.
I'm pretty sure we are no longer capable of having a fact-based rational discussion on the future of health care and its potential problems in this country. Laurence Kotlikoff's book, alas, is far too rational and sane to get anywhere here. Now, if there were a 30 second sound bite to get people deathly afraid of what would happen if we didn't do something like what he suggests, then we might get somewhere. Until somebody else makes up something even scarier against it, anyway.

Amazon.com: The Healthcare Fix: Universal Insurance for All Americans (9780262113144): Laurence J. Kotlikoff: Books

Sorry to be so depressing today.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 05:45 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Well, yeah. I think we may be a little farther down that road, though.

When I first read this story some 40 years ago, I thought it was pretty funny, and quite silly. I just re-read it, and it's not quite as funny now.
The Marching Morons C. M. Kornbluth - fantasy fiction political satyre sci-fi short-story - Wattpad

As far as the origin of the nonsense that keeps us from addressing health care issues, I ran across this just a few minutes ago.
Greetings from Idiot America - Esquire



I'm pretty sure we are no longer capable of having a fact-based rational discussion on the future of health care and its potential problems in this country. Laurence Kotlikoff's book, alas, is far too rational and sane to get anywhere here. Now, if there were a 30 second sound bite to get people deathly afraid of what would happen if we didn't do something like what he suggests, then we might get somewhere. Until somebody else makes up something even scarier against it, anyway.

Amazon.com: The Healthcare Fix: Universal Insurance for All Americans (9780262113144): Laurence J. Kotlikoff: Books

Sorry to be so depressing today.
I like the phrase 'Idiot America". Matches my observations perfectly.
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 08:22 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
__________________

__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The New Health Care Law, Health Ins & 'New Plans' dex FIRE and Money 14 06-28-2010 07:36 AM
New Federal Long Term Care oldguyER Health and Early Retirement 2 12-16-2009 08:52 AM
Federal Long Term Care Insurance Premium Increases Purron Health and Early Retirement 77 11-24-2009 08:17 PM
Long-Term Care - Part of Health Care Reform Bill chinaco Health and Early Retirement 3 07-19-2009 03:53 PM
health insurance and effect on increased health care costs Martha Other topics 9 08-08-2006 02:54 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:11 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.