Fluoride toothpaste, mouthwash, etc.

[brewer12345]

So I have been reading some fine print on some of the soap and other items around the house and getting horrified. The dish soap and (ugh) toothpaste do not make the cut (potential carcinogens on your dishes and toothbrush, anyone?). I can buy products without the offending ingredients or make them, but the toothpaste in particular is an issue. If I make it, fluoride appears impossible to add to it on a DIY basis. So is it necessary? I live in a place with fluoridated water, see a dentist regularly, etc. There is a lot of tinfoil hat-sounding stuff on fluoride. Has anyone done the research?

[Senator]

You can buy a fluoride rinse. That is as good (or better) than the tooth paste.

[Nunthewiser]

What are the offending ingredients in toothpaste, pray tell?

I would think that drinking thousands of gallons of floridated water would be worse.

[soupcxan]

Is it just triclosan you're worried about? You can buy toothpaste and soap without it.


Also, if you don't want carcinogens, you'll have to stop drinking beer as alcohol is a well-established carcinogen.


Alcohol and Cancer Risk Fact Sheet - National Cancer Institute

[brewer12345]

Sodium lauryl sulfate. I understand I take cancer and other risks with what I eat, drink, breathe and do. This stuff is an unnecessary addition to these products.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 So I have been reading some fine print on some of the soap and other items around the house and getting horrified. The dish soap and (ugh) toothpaste do not make the cut (potential carcinogens on your dishes and toothbrush, anyone?). I can buy products without the offending ingredients or make them, but the toothpaste in particular is an issue. If I make it, fluoride appears impossible to add to it on a DIY basis. So is it necessary? I live in a place with fluoridated water, see a dentist regularly, etc. There is a lot of tinfoil hat-sounding stuff on fluoride. Has anyone done the research?

Are you in California by any chance? I wonder because according to the state of California, EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE causes cancer.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyBoy5 Are you in California by any chance? I wonder because according to the state of California, EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE causes cancer.

No kidding. Almost anything you buy has the proposition whatever notice.

I started making soap a few months ago and plan on selling some in the new year. As I learn more about all of this, I am amazed at some of the ingredients that are routinely allowed in soap, toothpaste, hand lotion, etc. You would NEVER choose to put this in stuff you planned on using if you were making it yourself. So I am hardly an alarmist, but its not rocket science to figure out that you can reduce your risk by doing simple things to remove the more questionable ingredients from stuff you use.

[braumeister]

Sodium lauryl sulfate is on the GRAS (generally regarded as safe) list, and is very widely used in both cleaning products and food products, so it wouldn't bother me.

I would put the issue on the same level as the federal regulations about how many insect parts are allowed in a jar of peanut butter.

But you have to do what makes you feel best.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Sodium lauryl sulfate is on the GRAS (generally regarded as safe) list, and is very widely used in both cleaning products and food products, so it wouldn't bother me. I would put the issue on the same level as the federal regulations about how many insect parts are allowed in a jar of peanut butter. But you have to do what makes you feel best.

SLS is a pretty good skin irritant, which alone is good enough reason to avoid it. The issue isn't SLS itself, though. The problem is that SLS and SLES are sometimes contaminated with 1,4 dioxane, a known carcinogen. How much and how often? There is basically no testing or requirements for monitoring, so nobody does it. Random sampling of products in the market in the past has yielded some surprisingly high levels in some products, well beyond the threshold of increasing one's risk with frequent exposure (by brushing your teeth, washing your hair, using cosmetics, etc.).



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Dioxane


"In 2008, testing sponsored by the U.S. Organic Consumers Association found dioxane in almost half of tested organic personal-care products.[23] Since 1979 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have conducted tests on cosmetic raw materials and finished products for the levels of 1,4-dioxane.[24] 1,4-Dioxane was present in ethoxylated raw ingredients at levels up to 1410 ppm, and at levels up to 279 ppm in off the shelf cosmetic products.[24] Levels of 1,4-dioxane exceeding 85 ppm in children's shampoos indicate that close monitoring of raw materials and finished products is warranted.[24] While the FDA encourages manufacturers to remove 1,4-dioxane, it is not required by federal law.[25]"

I will be looking more closely/skeptically at GRAS ingredients in the future, quite frankly.

[Lsbcal]

Regarding the toothpaste, wouldn't avoiding any swallowing and flushing your mouth out very well with a water rinse reduce the risk (if any risk) ?

I generally flush my mouth out with water a few times after brushing. This is mostly to get rid of the particles that brushing dislodged but I guess it also cleans out all the toothpaste residue.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal Regarding the toothpaste, wouldn't avoiding any swallowing and flushing your mouth out very well with a water rinse reduce the risk (if any risk) ? I generally flush my mouth out with water a few times after brushing. This is mostly to get rid of the particles that brushing dislodged but I guess it also cleans out all the toothpaste residue.

Works great for chewing tobacco fans.

[soupcxan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Sodium lauryl sulfate. I understand I take cancer and other risks with what I eat, drink, breathe and do. This stuff is an unnecessary addition to these products.

Accepting the well-established risk of cancer from alcohol consumption and then trying to avoid a as-yet unproven link to trace amounts of 1,4-dioxane seems like worrying about being killed by a terrorist while driving your car around without a seatbelt. At least, statistically.

Unless you are regularly eating your toothpaste/shampoo/soap.

[Lsbcal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Works great for chewing tobacco fans.

OK, but maybe a bad analogy? Don't those guys hold the stuff in their mouths for ages before ejecting it? I never did the stuff.

Here is one answer on Yahoo forum for how long to hold chewing tobacco in your mouth:

Quote:

Best Answer: As long as you want. I used to keep it in for about an hour until enough mucous built up that it got slimy. Like the post prior, it isn't the best thing for you. I had to quit due to gum recession and my wife laying down the law. I switched to Hooch Snuff and have been tobacco free since.

I don't know the chemistry of toothpaste and don't pretend to. Maybe ask a dentist? Any dentist's on line here? I did a quick search but could find no source I'd want to rely on.

[tfudtuckerpucker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal Regarding the toothpaste, wouldn't avoiding any swallowing and flushing your mouth out very well with a water rinse reduce the risk (if any risk) ? I generally flush my mouth out with water a few times after brushing. This is mostly to get rid of the particles that brushing dislodged but I guess it also cleans out all the toothpaste residue.

It's true that rinsing your mouth after brushing with a fluoride toothpaste will remove much of the fluoride, but then why would you use a fluoride toothpaste? There are plenty of fluoride-free toothpastes out there.

Prescription strength toothpaste such as Fluoridex recommends you do not eat, drink or rinse for 30 minutes after using, in order to increase fluoride uptake. For children, it is recommended that they do rinse after brushing, in order to reduce the risk of fluorosis.

This apparently is apparantly a somewhat controversial topic.

[gerntz]

I'm constantly amazed at the things people dream up to be concerned about.

[MichaelB]

It's ok to be skeptical but let's keep it friendly, eh?

[Nunthewiser]

SWMBO has the same issue with toothpaste and soaps. She completely dissolves baking soda in water so that it isn't abrasive. I take my chances.

[Sarah in SC]

I met a girl a few years ago that won't use shampoo with that stuff in it. Very hard to find. She mostly uses baking soda and water in a sprayer and a vinegar rinse. I tried it and it did make my hair feel quite soft.

[Lsbcal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfudtuckerpucker It's true that rinsing your mouth after brushing with a fluoride toothpaste will remove much of the fluoride, but then why would you use a fluoride toothpaste? There are plenty of fluoride-free toothpastes out there. Prescription strength toothpaste such as Fluoridex recommends you do not eat, drink or rinse for 30 minutes after using, in order to increase fluoride uptake. For children, it is recommended that they do rinse after brushing, in order to reduce the risk of fluorosis. This apparently is apparantly a somewhat controversial topic.

I wasn't suggesting anything more then to reduce any "chemical" ingestion. Seems a good practice anyway not to swallow toothpaste and to rinse your mouth after.

[Lsbcal]

I'm signing off on this thread as for me it has gone off the rails.