Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-02-2011, 12:27 PM   #81
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
You guys are real trenchermen (and women)!~

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-04-2011, 05:36 PM   #82
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
I agree with what you are saying but... You will notice that both HaHa and I consumed 1,600-1,700 calories in a day WITHOUT being hungry. I don't know if that can be done in the normal (read government recommended) high Carb/low Fat diet. (I would be curious about your daily calorie count, for instance.) Again, hunger can, of course, be overcome by sheer will power but again I ask "Why"?
Here is a study that addresses the very question of satiety in paleo and other type diets. Dr.Lindeberg is a quality, accomplished researcher in this area, and Dr. Guyenet reports very accurately.

"One of the most intriguing findings in his 2007 study was the low calorie intake of the Paleolithic group. Despite receiving no instruction to reduce calorie intake, the Paleolithic group only ate 1,388 calories per day, compared to 1,823 calories per day for the Mediterranean group*. That's a remarkably low ad libitum calorie intake in the former (and a fairly low intake in the latter as well).

With such a low calorie intake over 12 weeks, you might think the Paleolithic group was starving. Fortunately, the authors had the foresight to measure satiety, or fullness, in both groups during the intervention. They found that satiety was almost identical in the two groups, despite the 24% lower calorie intake of the Paleolithic group. In other words, the Paleolithic group was just as full as the Mediterranean group, despite a considerably lower intake of calories."

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/paleolithic-diet-clinical-trials-part-v.html

Today I noticed this in action. I had a small dinner last night, missed breakfast because I was about out of food, walked a mile or so to a coffee house to meet a friend, then walked on downtown and did a bit of shopping. I never felt hungry, but suddenly I realized I had better get some food or I would pass out. So I postponed the trip to Uwajimaya and ducked into McDonalds, which sells a McDouble with no catsup, no bun, for anywhere from $2.10 to 2.75, incl. tax. A few minutes after I had eaten I was again firing on all eight.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 06:14 PM   #83
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,198
My general impression was that back when I just tried to eat less and avoid fats, I was hungry most of the time. Now, it seems that I am satisfied until just before lunch or dinner, and then I get very hungry. It is a very subjective thing, however.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 07:16 PM   #84
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
My general impression was that back when I just tried to eat less and avoid fats, I was hungry most of the time. Now, it seems that I am satisfied until just before lunch or dinner, and then I get very hungry. It is a very subjective thing, however.
It is. I don't even get hungry, my brain just stops working well and my legs don't feel quite right. I would actually rather get a bit hungry a half hour before this "lights out" process begins.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 07:24 AM   #85
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
happy2bretired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
It is. I don't even get hungry, my brain just stops working well and my legs don't feel quite right. I would actually rather get a bit hungry a half hour before this "lights out" process begins.

Ha
This is what has happened to me over the last year. I've lost about 25 pounds but I don't tend to get hungry as often as I used to. I don't eat much saturated fat but I increased my fat intake with olive oil, nuts and avocados, etc. and cut way back on bread and sweet stuff. If I don't eat about every 3 hours I get the "need to eat" urge but not really the hungry feeling. I eat in between meals with little high protein snacks such as peanut butter on Rye Crisps or nuts, something like that, maybe with a cup of green tea. I've really increased my green tea consumption over the last year too. I try not to eat anything after 7:00 pm (no longer have GERD) and I'm ready for my breakfast of blueberries, walnuts and yogurt first thing in the morning.

I'm glad to know that not feeling hunger pains as often is not a sign that my thyroid is out of whack.
__________________
happy2bretired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 08:06 AM   #86
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
The biggest problem I have with a LC diet is finding Bland-tasting food. I am never hungry at any point during the day... except for that period right after eating. Everything tastes so good that I could easily go back for 2nds or even 3rds and would if I didn't feel so "stuffed."

Here is what I ate yesterday:

Food Log.JPG

This is a bit more Calories than my target ~1,900 but the slice of bread at dinner was part of the experiment and is a one-time occurance. Oh! And the whole Avocado had more to do with shelf-life than with desire.

Anyway, a breakfast of Eggs and Sausage with a slice of Monterey Jack tastes (way) too good.

When I finished the bowl of Salad for Dinner I was over-stuffed but my taste buds were so aroused that it was 1/2 an hour before the desire for more went away.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 12:27 PM   #87
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
Here is what I ate yesterday
....
When I finished the bowl of Salad for Dinner I was over-stuffed but my taste buds were so aroused that it was 1/2 an hour before the desire for more went away.
I get a similar amount of protein but try to limit my total fat vs. limiting my total carbs. And, I have exactly the same issues: Right after I finish eating, I would really like to just continue eating; but, if I wait a bit, that desire fades.

I do find that an after meal drink (usually coffee in the mornings, tea during the day and beer/wine/whiskey in the evening) helps me ignore the desire to continue eating.
__________________
If there's one thing in my life that's missing; It's the time I spend alone
Sailing on the cool and bright clear waters; There's lots of those friendly people
Showin me ways to go; And I never want to lose your inspiration
CoolChange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 06:29 PM   #88
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
zinger1457's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
The biggest problem I have with a LC diet is finding Bland-tasting food. I am never hungry at any point during the day... except for that period right after eating. Everything tastes so good that I could easily go back for 2nds or even 3rds and would if I didn't feel so "stuffed."
Just curious, for those on a low carb diet what do you try to limit your daily carb intake to?
__________________
zinger1457 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 06:51 PM   #89
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinger1457 View Post
Just curious, for those on a low carb diet what do you try to limit your daily carb intake to?
For me, about 20 grams if I'm trying to lose weight quickly. It works for me. I don't count calories at all. It's basically the Atkins induction phase.

If I eat more carbs, I either slow down weight loss (only losing 2 -3 pounds a week) or stop losing altogether.
__________________
Retired July 2, 2010 at 62. My only regret is that I couldn't do it sooner.
thinker25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:16 AM   #90
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinger1457 View Post
Just curious, for those on a low carb diet what do you try to limit your daily carb intake to?
The general principal seems to be (at least, the Atkins way) to restrict your Carb intake to less than 25 grams a day for a period (two weeks?) until your body acclimates to the new diet. Then, in a structured manner, slowly add Carbs back to the point where you stop losing weight. You will then have found your own personal "balance point" -- more Carbs you gain, less you lose.

And understand that they are speaking of "Net" carbs -- there are good and bad carbs. The Good Carbs (Dietary Fiber on the Nutrition Facts label) can be deducted from the Total Carbs. The "Bad" carbs?... identified as "Sugars" on the Nutrional Facts label.

There are a number of Forums/Blogs/websites that you can visit to get much more knowledgable information than from me, however.

The Atkins Community

Atkins

Healthy Low Carb Living by: Amy Dungan*||*Transforming from caterpillar to butterfly, one healthy step at a time.

Low Carb Help and Information

and the most active of all (and arguably, the most useful), Low Carb Friends, which is closely affiliated with Netrition.com's Low Carb Products, a specialty food/supplement retailer.

And, of course, the book(s) by Mr. Taubes.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:51 AM   #91
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
I received Mr. Taubes' new book in the mail yesterday and spent about a half hour glancing through it (while multi-tasking) last night.

From his Preface (Author's Note):

Quote:
I decided to write Why We Get Fat largely because of two common responses that I received to Good Calories, Bad Calories.

The first comes from those researchers who made an effort to understand the arguments [I made] ... Even if these researchers do see the need to address the problem immediately, though, they have other obligations and legitimate interests elswhere... With luck, the ideas discussed in [GC,BC] may be rigorously tested in the next twenty years. If confirmed, it will be another decade or so after that, at least, before our public-health authorities actively change their official explanation for why we get fat, how that leads to illness, and what we have to do to avoid or reverse those fates.

The other response I get frequently is from those lay readers, as well as an encouraging number of physicians, nutritionists, researchers, and health administrators who ... found the logic [in GC, BC] and the evidence compelling, and embraced the message. ... These comments, e-mails, and letters have often come with a request. [GC, BC] is lengthy (nearly five hundred pages), dense with science and historical context, and densely annotated, all of which I believe was necessary to initiate a meaningful dialog with the experts and assure that they (or any reader) take nothing I say on trust alone. The book demands that the reader devote considerable time and attention to following the evidence and the arguments. For this reason, many ... asked me to write ... one that their husbands or wives, their aging parents, or their friends and siblings can read without difficulty. ... a book that doesn't require such an investment of time and effort.
I believe he was successful in making the book more user-friendly. It is smaller in size -- 8Ĺx6 -- and only 228 pages of text. There is another 18 pages of "Sources" and (to my joy) all of the footnotes are on the same page as the data.

I will try to get back with a more in-depth analysis of the book after I have spent some time with it but, on the surface, I highly recommend it.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 11:24 AM   #92
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
A good Review of the Book and an Interview with Mr. Taubes with the Interviewee:

Fat Head Ľ Review: Why We Get Fat Ö And What To Do About It

Quote:
Okay, so you tried to get your Aunt Martha to read Good Calories, Bad Calories before she joined Weight Watchers for the 13th time, but she handed it back after two weeks and said she couldnít get through it. Thatís no knock on Aunt Martha. GCBC is a ground-breaking book, but heavy on science and therefore not an easy read. I remember reading some sections three times before I felt Iíd fully grasped them
Fat Head Ľ Why We Get Fat: Interview With Gary Taubes

Quote:
Soon after I posted my review of Why We Get Fat And What to Do About It, I emailed Gary Taubes to ask if he had time for a written interview. Gracious as always, he agreed to answer a long list of questions. Hereís our Q & A.
An excerpt:
Quote:
Fat Head: You wrote something in Why We Get Fat that I think every frustrated dieter needs to hear: the proper diet will help us become as lean as we can be, but not necessarily as lean as weíd like to be. Once we become fat, is there a limit to how much fat we can lose without starving away our lean tissue? If so, whatís the barrier to mobilizing and burning those last 10 or 20 pounds of excess fat?

Gary Taubes: Simple answer, I donít know. But itís obvious that not every woman can have the body of an Angelina Jolie, regardless of how few carbs they eat. And not every man can have the body or the body-fat percentage of, I donít know, a Matthew McConaughey, one of these actors whoís always taking his shirt off in movies.
Thatís for starters. Some of us are wired to have more body fat than others from the get-go. Then I think when we grow up in a carb-rich environment, some degree of chronic damage is done to the way we partition fuel. Maybe our muscle tissue never quite loses its insulin resistance, or our fat tissue remains more insulin sensitive than it would be had we never seen carbs. Maybe our pancreas secretes a little too much insulin.

Itís hard to tell, but the way I describe it is this: if I grew up in a hunter-gatherer environment ó and my mother did as well, because there are effects that are passed from mother to child through the uterus ó Iíd probably weigh around 175 pounds, even as an adult. Had I stopped eating carbs in my late teens, I might naturally weigh about 190 or 200, which was my football weight in high school. The fact that I not only kept eating carbohydrates into my forties but gorged on them during the low-fat, you-canít-get-fat-if-a-food-doesnít-have-fat-in-it years of the late 1980s and early 1990s means the best I can do now, even eating virtually no carbs at all, is about 220. And thereís nothing I can do to go lower, short of starving myself. Semi-starving myself doesnít work. I tried that long ago.

Fat Head: So whatís the message for those people? Lose what you can and focus on being healthy, as opposed to obsessing with squeezing into a size-8 dress?

Gary Taubes: Precisely.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 02:36 PM   #93
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
A good Review of the Book and an Interview with Mr. Taubes with the Interviewee:

Gary Taubes: ...The fact that I not only kept eating carbohydrates into my forties but gorged on them during the low-fat, you-can’t-get-fat-if-a-food-doesn’t-have-fat-in-it years of the late 1980s and early 1990s means...
That bold line is precisely why I have so much trouble with anything Taubes writes/says. He keeps framing things so wrongly - why do that if you have a solid point to make?

The consensus from credible sources from the 80's and 90's was certainly not that only fat calories make you fat. There was still the issue of 'calories in calories out'. No doubt, marketing people tried to make hay with 'low fat' products, but let's stick to science here, not marketing mumbo-jumbo.

Again, it doesn't mean Taubes is wrong, and I suspect that much of what he says has substance. But his delivery is such that I just can't get through even a condensed version of his book. I've seen this similar overly-extreme stance in news articles by/about him. To 'prove' that 'carbs are bad', he uses the example of someone who lives on little more than bagels and Cola, but never (to my knowledge) addresses the Okinowan diet that is relatively high in complex carbs.


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 03:01 PM   #94
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
That bold line is precisely why I have so much trouble with anything Taubes writes/says. He keeps framing things so wrongly - why do that if you have a solid point to make?
Yeow! You are reading a lot more into what he says than I ever would.
He said (IMHO) it that way to separate those years from all the other Calories in/Calories-out years. I don't remember him ever saying that Calories don't matter... of course they do.

What he does say (and over and over) is that you will consume fewer Calories on high fat food than you will on high Carb (starchy sugary) food without being hungry. Sure you can starve yourself thin. Nobody disputes that.

In any event, this is least important facet of his message. The damage caused by a high Carb diet is his Soapbox... look around and you can see he is correct.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 03:20 PM   #95
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
To 'prove' that 'carbs are bad', he uses the example of someone who lives on little more than bagels and Cola, but never (to my knowledge) addresses the Okinowan diet that is relatively high in complex carbs.

-ERD50
I don't think there is any doubt that there are many thin people on high carb diets. Any day I walk down the street in the University district I see hunderds of Asians walking along who are very thin. Also see plenty of them eating noodles in the ubiquitous udon places. With specific reference to the Olinawan diet, I would say that the best way to get their results would be to be reincarnated as an Okinawan, and then stay in Okinawa.

If one can be comfortable and lean and energetic on the low fat/high carb diet(dont forget that protein is relatively fixed in the amount that one can eat), go for it!

For many of us mature people, it is easier and more effective to go low carb.

My dance partner is a younger than I, is much more active with gym every morning, walks most afternoons, and goes out dancing at night more often than I want to- yet she has to go to weight watchers to stay less lean than I. I require only moderate excercise and no attempt to monitor anything I eat except carbs. She has 4+ willpower, is not an emotion driven eater, but nevertheless has a cookie tummy because that kind of life is just hard!

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 03:44 PM   #96
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
Yeow! You are reading a lot more into what he says than I ever would.
He said (IMHO) it that way to separate those years from all the other Calories in/Calories-out years. I don't remember him ever saying that Calories don't matter... of course they do.
No, I'm not reading that as if Taubes said that calories don't matter. But he frames it as if the majority of dieticians were saying it in the 80's and 90's. He seems to set up these straw men so he can knock them down to appear correct about all this. That is what I don't like about his delivery.


Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
I don't think there is any doubt that there are many thin people on high carb diets. ...

For many of us mature people, it is easier and more effective to go low carb.

Ha
I don't doubt that at all, but it bothers me that in all the many pages from Taubes, he doesn't address (to my knowledge) how these people can be thin on so many carbs. I've read enough to convince me that refined carbs should be kept to a minimum, though I don't go nuts over this either. I know people who get all worked up over the 15 calories in a Tablespoon of Ketchup (all from the sugar/HFCS). Heck, I might use 2 Tb/week of Ketchup. that's about 0.2% of my calorie intake - not worth thinking about, IMO.

Sorry,but Taubes just doesn't 'connect' with me. There was a reference earlier in this thread I need to look at - something about the different levels of 'Satiety' from different foods. That makes sense to me, and I think I could benefit from being more aware of which foods are more likely to satisfy me so I east less overall. There are so many variables day-to-day, it's hard to be objective about this, but in general I find that half an apple with ~ 1 Tb of peanut butter or almond butter satisfies me for much longer than a whole apple w/o the protein. No surprise there, but if I became more aware of that overall I think it would be good.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 03:57 PM   #97
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
But he frames it as if the majority of dieticians were saying it in the 80's and 90's.
But that's true... the 50's through today, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
There was a reference earlier in this thread I need to look at - something about the different levels of 'Satiety' from different foods. That makes sense to me, and I think I could benefit from being more aware of which foods are more likely to satisfy me so I east less overall. There are so many variables day-to-day, it's hard to be objective about this, but in general I find that half an apple with ~ 1 Tb of peanut butter or almond butter satisfies me for much longer than a whole apple w/o the protein. No surprise there, but if I became more aware of that overall I think it would be good.
That is exactly what Good Calories, Bad Calories means. In this case it is because an Apple is almost 100% Carbs (certainly extremely high Sugar content) while the Nuts are quite high in Fat and Protein -- the two things your body uses for fuel. Carbs are stored for later use (as body fat) leaving nothing for your body's use thus causing a hunger. Nuts also have a higher portion of their Carbs in Fiber which deducts from the total Carb count. That, in essence, is what Taubes is preaching.

You should take another look at his writing, if only to start with an open-mind on the above referenced interview.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 04:03 PM   #98
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Sorry,but Taubes just doesn't 'connect' with me.
-ERD50
You seem to take this personally. Gary Taubes is talking to his audience- which just doesn't happen to include you. Why should it include everyone?

The mass audience for low carb eating is not internet discussants, or those who are idly curious, or those who just like to argue. It is mostly people with a weight problem, who have not succeeded to their satisfaction on the MD supported diet of calorie restriction.

Scientists don't bother to point the glaring problems with their conclusions- why should an author who is after all trying to support a young family totally on free-lance earnings try to write an encyclopedia of eating? As long as he accurately points to his evidence, he needn't run off his paying customers with a long winded discussion of other people's purported contrary evidence.

He has a message and an audience. He won't be upset if it does not include you.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 04:15 PM   #99
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
But that's true... the 50's through today, actually.
No I don't agree. They were not saying calories don't matter. I agree they were over-emphasizing the role of fat, but they still looked at calories overall. They were missing out on the 'satiety' issue.



Quote:
You should take another look at his writing, if only to start with an open-mind on the above referenced interview.
No thanks, I've seen enough from him. I'd prefer to find a messenger who connects better with me on this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
You seem to take this personally.

...

He has a message and an audience. He won't be upset if it does not include you.

Ha
Why not take it personally? I'm one of the most important people in my life!

I understand your last point totally. I don't expect him to change to include me. I'm just expressing my opinion on this, that's all.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 04:52 PM   #100
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
A personal note about weight. I really know what I would weigh under various circumstances. Playing high school football, and eating whatever I could stuff in before I fell asleep, I weighed about 160. In post season, that tended to do down, rather than up as happens to many seasonal athletes.

In college I rowed lightweight 8s, so I had to make weight at what was my coach assigned weight of 155. After weighins and rehydration it was likely closer to 160. After college was over I lost some muscle and went down to about 150 again.

Later in the bush in South America I was kind of semi-starved, as there just wasn't food to be had. Once a month or so I got to a city and gorged on beef and pork at an outdoor marketplace in the stockyards. A bit later I got quite ill, and left the hospital at 130#. (This is at 5'11".)

So for me, I think 130 is the almost dead really bad shape weight. My current weight is 150, and If I do more weight lifting it will increase a bit. This weight and minimum fat is quite easy to maintain on a low carb diet. So at least for someone with my physiology, low carb is an easy and effective solution to weight creep.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gary Taubes to Speak in Seattle Thursday, 4/15/10 haha Health and Early Retirement 8 04-16-2010 02:32 PM
Newest Scam! guest Other topics 3 07-03-2008 10:15 AM
Newest Member with Maggie Hi, I am... 2 06-19-2004 08:52 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:08 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.