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Old 07-02-2015, 11:46 AM   #81
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I did what Erd did. Smaller portions and tracking intake so that I had a real idea of how much I was eating. I got fat exercising daily, eating a healthy diet of fruit and vegetables, not too much sugar, no fast food or soda, and mostly homemade food. I lost 25 lbs eating the same thing, just less.

I like good, fresh whole grain bread, but mostly kept it out of the house -- too easy to overeat -- and I rarely ate potatoes or other starchy food before I started trying to lose weight. I actually added more white and sweet potatoes to help lose weight because I find them to be quite filling.

Rye has gluten just like wheat and the same calorie content.
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:45 PM   #82
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I'm going to wait for some clearer science before eliminating a food group.
There are Essential Amino Acids and there are Essential Fatty Acids but there are no essential Carbohydrates. (Although, life would be pretty boring without them. <chuckle>)
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:47 PM   #83
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Now, you should research that. There are few vegetable that are not (very) high in carbohydrates... and even fewer fruits.
Well, I wouldn't say "few". Certainly you have to pick and choose.

I eat low carb and eat lots of squash, broccoli, cauliflower, avocado, and have a salad with dinner almost every night. You do have to be careful of dressing to avoid the carbs, but ranch and oil & vinegar work just fine.

And certain fruits are also fine. I eat lots of berries - local strawberries were in season and very delicious. Blueberries are coming into season. Basically, berries are fine. Also, melons like watermelon, cantaloupe, and others. My wife and I often split a small apple.

Nuts are another plant food that works.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:21 PM   #84
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Well, I wouldn't say "few". Certainly you have to pick and choose.

I eat low carb and eat lots of squash, broccoli, cauliflower, avocado, and have a salad with dinner almost every night. You do have to be careful of dressing to avoid the carbs, but ranch and oil & vinegar work just fine.

And certain fruits are also fine. I eat lots of berries - local strawberries were in season and very delicious. Blueberries are coming into season. Basically, berries are fine. Also, melons like watermelon, cantaloupe, and others. My wife and I often split a small apple.

Nuts are another plant food that works.
Still I say more research is necessary: Watermelon (5.3 oz), for instance, contains 12 grams of carbohydrates, 10 of which are sugar).

Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Watermelon, raw

Nuts are wonderful. However, there are a couple cautions. 1. (despite the calories don't count mantra) it is easy to eat way too many -- they are loaded with calories and 2. they should be eaten alone -- they prevent the use by the body of vitamins and minerals.

You should be fine with high fat/low carb dressings.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:40 PM   #85
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Rye contains gluten, as does barley and spelt. So it's not only wheat.

I'm on a major elimination diet at the moment to see if my thyroid antibody numbers improve.

Gluten is out for 3 months as I have a mild intolerance for it. Barley is out for 6 - I am more intolerant of it than the other gluten carrying grains.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:50 PM   #86
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I'm on a major elimination diet at the moment to see if my thyroid numbers improve.
There is some thought that as people eliminate salt from their diet
(either through avoidance of table salt or cutting down on snacks, etc.), they might develop an Iodine deficiency... which is directly related to Thyroid function.

Be careful of taking Iodine supplements, however, because Iodine overdose is easy and dangerous. Have a blood test prior to self-prescription.
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:14 PM   #87
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Still I say more research is necessary: Watermelon (5.3 oz), for instance, contains 12 grams of carbohydrates, 10 of which are sugar).
Of course what ones considers a serving matters.

The source I consulted uses a half cup serving (not certain how many oz that is). It claims that a half cup of watermelon is 5.5g carbs. Which is less than the 6.5g carbs for half cup of strawberries.

So basically, don't go overboard. Likewise with nuts.

But a reasonable serving of these fits my criteria for a low carb (certainly not no carb) diet.

And I'm pretty sure I eat more fruits and veggies now on my low carb diet than when I used to fill up on starchy foods.

Low carb fruits w/ 15 grams or less per serving | MSU Extension
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:25 PM   #88
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There is some thought that as people eliminate salt from their diet
(either through avoidance of table salt or cutting down on snacks, etc.), they might develop an Iodine deficiency... which is directly related to Thyroid function.

Be careful of taking Iodine supplements, however, because Iodine overdose is easy and dangerous. Have a blood test prior to self-prescription.
I don't try to eliminate salt at all.

I actually did an iodine sufficiency test a few months ago, and my results were 84%, where 90% is considered fully sufficient. So iodine deficiency is not my problem at the moment, IMO. My doctor is keen on iodine supplementation for hypothyroid patients but I'm avoiding that approach for now since my score was pretty good and some think it's not a good approach for people with Hashimoto's disease.

It could be that diary is the culprit in my case - I showed a moderate intolerance to it, and mild intolerance to casein. I'll be off cow's milk dairy for 6 months, so I'm hoping that will solve my autoimmune problem. It's something I ate daily, and I have read of others where eliminating dairy solved their problem. Eliminating gluten didn't make a difference for me.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:57 PM   #89
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Added sugar seems to be the bogey man for me. If I avoid/limit the added sugar and don't binge on sugary fruits, a few extra carbs in a hamburger bun or a beer does not seem to hurt my efforts to keep my weight in a good place.

A lot of it has to do with eating real food as close to the way mother-nature/god/higher-power made it.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:02 PM   #90
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I read wheat belly a few weeks ago...I gave it up.
1) I found rye and sun flower bread that is wheat free
2) no donuts, cake or any other sweet tasty stuff I generally didn't eat too much of that
3) gave up potatoes - this was the most difficult for me oh a Italian bread with olive oil with garlic
4) made a point of adding more veggies and fruit.
5) I'll eat a role with a burger, just because it is expedient

protein and veggies/fruit for each meal no starches....

Results:
- lost over 20lbs to date
- blood sugar dropped like a stone
- blood pressure did same
- appetite diminished and smaller portions fill me.
- generally feel better energy and clarity..

Can't say enough about the diet I'm on to something
I'm sure you are on to something...but it may have nothing to do with avoiding grains or gluten. (Doesn't rye usually have gluten in it?) That is, you've reduced greatly refined carbs and high sugar foods (including potatoes). You probably are eating smaller portions as well. You've likely reduced your overall carbs, leading to lower calories in, leading to weight loss. The fact you aren't eating much grains (well the rolls with burgers which I don't know how often you do that) may have little to nothing to do with the changes you have seen.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:37 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
I read wheat belly a few weeks ago...I gave it up.
1) I found rye and sun flower bread that is wheat free
2) no donuts, cake or any other sweet tasty stuff I generally didn't eat too much of that
3) gave up potatoes - this was the most difficult for me oh a Italian bread with olive oil with garlic
4) made a point of adding more veggies and fruit.
5) I'll eat a role with a burger, just because it is expedient

protein and veggies/fruit for each meal no starches....

Results:
- lost over 20lbs to date
- blood sugar dropped like a stone
- blood pressure did same
- appetite diminished and smaller portions fill me.
- generally feel better energy and clarity..

Can't say enough about the diet I'm on to something


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I'm a little confused. Are you thinking potatoes contain gluten?
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:50 PM   #92
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I'm a little confused. Are you thinking potatoes contain gluten?
I'm confused too.

'I read wheat belly a few weeks ago...I gave it up.'

What did he give up? Wheat, gluten, or reading?

I'm pretty sure potatoes don't have gluten, and I'm pretty sure rye does. I'm not sure about books.

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Old 07-03-2015, 10:59 PM   #93
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Yes, rye definitely contains gluten, as does barley.

Potatoes do not contain gluten.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:07 AM   #94
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It's easy for a gluten thread to turn into a diet thread!
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The problem with these independent lab tests is that we know nothing about them. They aren't validated. We don't really know if they work or how well they work or if they are testing for anything that is actually important. If you feel better when you don't eat wheat, then don't eat wheat. If you can't tell if you feel better, then don't worry about it. Changing your diet based on the results of an unvalidated test is kind of nutty.

The claim in "Wheat Belly" is that gluten has "changed" somehow as a result of selective breeding, causing increasing obesity over the last forty years. Well, guess what? It turns out that gluten derived from modern strains of wheat is chemically identical to gluten from historic strains. Wheat Belly's sensational claim is just an overly simplistic idea.
There are some generally accepted ideas, and some others that a subset of scientists agree upon (not all of which are selling books). If you exhibit zero symptoms that might originate from an autoimmune condition, it's easy to dismiss the breaking science.
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:29 PM   #95
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If you exhibit zero symptoms that might originate from an autoimmune condition, it's easy to dismiss the breaking science.
That's a really good point!

The rest of us are really interested in finding some answers.
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:44 AM   #96
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I'm confused too.



'I read wheat belly a few weeks ago...I gave it up.'



What did he give up? Wheat, gluten, or reading?



I'm pretty sure potatoes don't have gluten, and I'm pretty sure rye does. I'm not sure about books.



-ERD50

I suspect you get confused easily... There's never a need to be nasty or frankly a (mod edit) yet you found a way.

Reduce the amount of wheat in your diet and guess what? You consume less gluten.
Those wheat products are often loaded with sugar too...donuts anyone?




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Old 07-05-2015, 07:59 AM   #97
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It's easy for a gluten thread to turn into a diet thread!There are some generally accepted ideas, and some others that a subset of scientists agree upon (not all of which are selling books). If you exhibit zero symptoms that might originate from an autoimmune condition, it's easy to dismiss the breaking science.
Is it "breaking science" or is it a made-up crock of, um, nonsense? Somebody is selling that test all right, but is it useful? Have they done any (reproducible, peer-reviewed) testing to prove that it's useful? It's easy to identify a protein and slap together some kind of immunoassay, but do you get any useful information from that result? If the result is useful, can the issue be treated? If you treat the issue, does improved health occur? Or is this just invalid testing, over-testing, over-diagnosis, or ineffective treatment?

We ask those questions about conventional, science based medicine all the time (and fight about the answers madly in journals), so shouldn't we ask those questions about alternative medicine, too?
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Old 07-05-2015, 01:00 PM   #98
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An interesting July 4th write-up on gluten sensitivity in the NY Times -

Quote:
AS many as one in three Americans tries to avoid gluten, a protein found in wheat, barley and rye. Gluten-free menus, gluten-free labels and gluten-free guests at summer dinners have proliferated.
Quote:
Most of these assertions, however, are contradicted by significant evidence, and distract us from our actual problem: an immune system that has become overly sensitive.
Quote:
For Dr. Bana Jabri, director of research at the University of Chicago Celiac Disease Center, it’s the genetics of celiac disease that contradict the argument that wheat is intrinsically toxic.
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So the real mystery of celiac disease is what breaks that tolerance, and whatever that agent is, why has it become more common in recent decades?
An important clue comes from the fact that other disorders of immune dysfunction have also increased. We’re more sensitive to pollens (hay fever), our own microbes (inflammatory bowel disease) and our own tissues (multiple sclerosis).
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/op...stEmailed&_r=0
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Old 07-05-2015, 01:44 PM   #99
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An interesting July 4th write-up on gluten sensitivity in the NY Times -
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So the real mystery of celiac disease is what breaks that tolerance, and whatever that agent is, why has it become more common in recent decades?

An important clue comes from the fact that other disorders of immune dysfunction have also increased. We’re more sensitive to pollens (hay fever), our own microbes (inflammatory bowel disease) and our own tissues (multiple sclerosis).
I watched a documentary on polio a while back, and something they covered (just barely) seemed so profound, but I don't know that researchers are following up on this.

After covering the overall history of polio in the US and the development of vaccines, etc, they started questioning why polio became more common and more severe in the 20th century in the US (some years of warm wet weather seemed to help spread it). They noted that other countries, even with similar weather, had cases of polio, but they were rarer, and it was very rare for it to develop into anything as debilitating as they were seeing in the US.

So why an epidemic in the US? And why now?

Then, they noted the incidence of polio in the US coincided with improved sanitation in the US. They theorized that children in the US no longer were being exposed to polio at a young age (while still protected by their mother's immunity), so did not develop their own immunity.

Well, if that was the case for polio (and I think there was strong evidence for it), then why couldn't that also be the case for so many other illnesses today?

I'm not sure if some of these reports of increases are just due to better detection/reporting, but to the extent they are increasing, I would think our present germ phobia could be a big cause?

-ERD50
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Old 07-05-2015, 03:24 PM   #100
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Gluten Free

Part of the problem is that we were fed a load of bad advice based on bad or nonexistent science for 30+ years. The entire low-fat, low cholesterol, no saturated fat way of eating never had had good science to back it up. And they entirely avoided looking at the alternative foods that replaced the 'bad' foods.

Thus, for years we ate high trans-fat margarine instead of real butter. Sugary 'Chocolate Sugar Bombs' type cereals were given a seal telling us it was good for our heart health. French fries were fried in those healthy trans fats instead of beef and pork fat. Low-fat sugary dairy was sold as healthier than plain ordinary full fat dairy with no added sugars. Manufactured digestible products were passed off as healthier than real food like eggs, whole milk, beef, veggies and other real food. The list goes on and on and on............

Many of the people and organizations that fed us this unscientific advice have yet to apologize and admit their errors.
Eating guidelines still come from the Dept of Agriculture which has huge conflicts of interest.

Is it any wonder the public is skeptical?

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