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Old 05-30-2011, 11:10 AM   #61
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... but there's lots of Tilapia on the restaurant menus:
I eat a lot of fish, but tilapia has to be one of the most boring fish on the menu...
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:27 AM   #62
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I'll stick with the Aristotelian "golden mean" -- eating a little of this, a little of that, not forsaking anything, but also not eating too much of any one thing.
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:41 PM   #63
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I'll stick with the Aristotelian "golden mean" -- eating a little of this, a little of that, not forsaking anything, but also not eating too much of any one thing.
Me too, except that I detest jalapenos so they are forsaken. Otherwise I try to get a variety of nutritious foods and just cut back and keep working out at the gym. I lost just under two pounds this week and continue to average about a pound a week, so that is working for me.
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:38 PM   #64
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I lost just under two pounds this week and continue to average about a pound a week, so that is working for me.
After reading all the threads about diets and health and studies and controversies, I think we should write a book: "The Early Retirement Diet".

After all, it seems to be a common element in many successful weight-loss and health-improvement programs...
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:29 PM   #65
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"No Baloney! How to Retire Fat-Free on One Tilapia a Day"
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:14 PM   #66
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Ah, fried baloney (or as we call it in Pittsburgh, jumbo). Cook it up a little charred in a skillet and put it on some white bread with a slice of fresh garden tomato with salt and pepper. Yum! I haven't eaten it since I was a kid but it was a summer favorite due to access to those big homegrown tomatoes from the backyard patch.
I get tired of the quarter pound of sliced turkey breast that I occasionally buy at the deli and substitute Genoa salami or prosciutto. I don't know why I don't buy jumbo anymore. Maybe as Thomas Wolfe said, you really can't go home again.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:08 PM   #67
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Ahhhh, I could go for a Primanti Bros. Jumbo and Cheese right now.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:50 PM   #68
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I see that you guys are resisting the healthy foods idea pretty well. Fried baloney
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:16 AM   #69
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OP is absolutely right. Red meat consumption has been consistently shown to increase the risk of colon cancer. What adds even more risk is when you throw that burger or steak on a grill and allow it to get blackened or seared. The chemicals produced in this process have been shown to be carcinogenic.

The Japanese, who eat much less red meat and more sea food and vegetables, have a much lower rate of this disease. I think we need to wean ourselves off this fascination with burgers and steaks. It just ain't healthy, especially if we want to live long and enjoy ER.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:52 PM   #70
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The article linked in the OP is about a meta-analysis of epidemiological (epi) studies, most of them being cohort and case-control studies. One of the problems with epi studies on low probability outcomes (colon cancer in this case) is the mountain of statistical tests one has to do. Run enough samples and stat tests and you will conclude some of the time that a fair coin or set of dice is biased. Measure things like diet and lifestyle and the pure amount of exaggeration, BS and outright lies from the subjects make researchers conclude the cleanest study is no more than a suggestion to scientists in more rigorous fields to take a closer look. Unless, of course, the only way to study the subject is using epi methods.

One surprise was that nutritionists consider pork to be a red meat. What's up with that?

I saw last year one of the most amazing presentations regarding research - essentially, it debunked most research saying that it was very difficult to get rid of bias and or truly prove correlation - it was difficult because you couldn't control every variable nor actually account for every variable--moreover, using 'file cabinet searches' for research is even more fraught with problems (which I believe you stated above).

From my post-graduate school days doing research, I remember taking a "class" (call Journal Club) on how to critically read a research paper - I walked away from that with a heaping helping of skepticism towards many research papers. How you state your hypothesis, how you set up your experiment to test your hypothesis, what your statistics truly said (gotta have a large n and small p to be truly relevant) were all areas in which you could err.

Lastly, being a biomedical engineer, I realize that the human body is amazing and yet quite variable - what may be good for one person, may not be so good for another. There are some generalities that can be stated, but the variability between people makes it difficult to be truly specific. In other words, YMMV :-)
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:56 PM   #71
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Not an issue for me....I rarely eat anything that once had four legs. I eat chicken and fish for protein and that's about it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:31 PM   #72
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OP is absolutely right. Red meat consumption has been consistently shown to increase the risk of colon cancer.
...
Perhaps you could point out one convincing study for consideration?
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:55 PM   #73
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Perhaps you could point out one convincing study for consideration?
A few among many. Just do google search.

Colon cancer study flags red meat

Red-Meat Eaters Risk Colon Cancer

Red meat and colon cancer
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:48 PM   #74
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Sorry, those are journalists reporting about studies. You can safely ignore the meta study (and endless references to it). It lumps red meat and processed meats into a single category, and it is interpreted by a committee. Also, you also will need to find a study that does not involve self reported food intake, since on average people can't accurately report their consumption.

At the moment, I think the best you will be able to do is say that consumption appears to be positively correlated to cancer.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:14 PM   #75
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Sorry, those are journalists reporting about studies. You can safely ignore the meta study (and endless references to it). It lumps red meat and processed meats into a single category, and it is interpreted by a committee. Also, you also will need to find a study that does not involve self reported food intake, since on average people can't accurately report their consumption.

At the moment, I think the best you will be able to do is say that consumption appears to be positively correlated to cancer.
I don't know how much more evidence you need. There have been many studies done that show a cause/effect relationship. I'm not here to argue studies methodologies and convince you otherwise. Your health is based on your reseach with the onus on you. The fact that so much scientific evidence points to this conclusion is sufficient for me to avoid that kind of diet. If you want to quible studies methodologies to justify ignoring the evidence and consume in that way, that's really your choice.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:39 PM   #76
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Those studies do not say anything about cause and effect. Because people who eat more red meat get more colon cancer doesn't mean that the red meat causes colon cancer.

Perhaps they are more constipated, and constipation causes cc.

Perhaps they can afford more meat because they are more well-off and have other habits that distinguish them from the other group.

Perhaps meat eaters are less health conscious in general.

Unless subjects are randomly assigned to the different groups, you can say nothing about cause and effect.

ER forum members are richer than non ER forum members. Does that mean that joining this forum causes wealth?
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:41 PM   #77
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There have been many studies done that show a cause/effect relationship.
That might be going a little far, but there have been a lot of studies purporting to show a link. I'll have to confess that, although I've reached a conclusion, myself, I haven't read a single one of the studies and, consequently, have no opinion about how sound they are. Even if I were to read them, I doubt very much that my extremely limited knowledge of statistics and non-existent knowledge of biomedical science could lead me to a reasonable critical evaluation. But just the fact that there are a number of studies counts for something -- it means that several people in the biz' have decided there might be a bandwagon that they'd like to hitch onto. That's something. I'm thinking, that where there's smoke, there's fire. And besides, I don't need a certainty to place my bet on diet or food supplement issues, because there's little downside. Suppose I give up red meat, but it turns out, when the matter is finally clarified, that it was just a bunch of crap. What did I lose? There are lots of delicious foods other than red and processed meats.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:52 PM   #78
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...ER forum members are richer than non ER forum members. Does that mean that joining this forum causes wealth?
It doesn't?
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:19 PM   #79
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Not sure where I saw it but I'm not about to give up the things I love for 3 more years in the nursing home.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:17 AM   #80
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I don't know how much more evidence you need. ...
You should not form your opinion about what a science article says based on a journalists reading, or worse, his/her summary of what other journalists said about an article.
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