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Old 02-11-2015, 09:07 PM   #41
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[QUOTE=splitwdw;1554948]retire2013, I can read just about anything......I had a hard time getting through this book. I read and have the book because a friend was trying the diet and needed coaching. Did you get your lab tests done as recommended before you started the diet? Will you have the tests again to see your results as recommended. Did you do the one day fast before starting the diet? I can't even imagine drinking all the purified water, half your body weight in ounces. The example is if you weight 150 pounds you should drink 75 ounces purified water. And rice is okay in moderation but only a couple of times a week. I did not want to discourage my friend but sounds like just another "amazing diet". She had the lab tests done before and after and there wasn't much difference.
I'm all for helping yourself getting healthy but for the most part if you eat a sensible diet and exercise you're doing the best you can.

No, I did not have any lab tests done and don't plan to have any done. Like you, I just read a lot and then spending time thinking about what I read. My plan is to just cut down on the wheat and other grains that contain gluten to see if I feel better. I have osteoarthritis and a friend of mine told me that when she cut out wheat and dairy, her arthritic pain just went away almost completely. So I thought I would give this wheat-free approach a try.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:10 PM   #42
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I replaced broccoli with cupcakes in my diet recently, and I'm happy to report my cognitive abilities have improved slightly. Next I'm going to replace zucchini with pizza.

Yum!!!
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:15 PM   #43
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I will look for this book at our local library. Thank you. I love reading! Especially now that I've ERd.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:15 PM   #44
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Beer is not gluten free

Therefore I will never be gluten free

Some of it is naturally under 20ppm, and others are treated to get it under 20ppm. I think it's Lagunitas that has one. Sorgum beer ain't beer...it tastes like crap.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:17 PM   #45
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Some of it is naturally under 20ppm, and others are treated to get it under 20ppm. I think it's Lagunitas that has one. Sorgum beer ain't beer...it tastes like crap.
I actually tried some from Belgium a month ago, and not bad.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:27 PM   #46
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Yes.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:29 PM   #47
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Whenever I read about something controversial in medicine I always look to see what others say. The theories behind Grain Brain are very controversial.

This was a good article that addresses the book in what seems to be a balanced way:

This Is Your Brain on Gluten - The Atlantic

This is an article by Chris Kessler (who is in favor of Paleo eating and is no huge fan of grains) about why he doesn't feel the book is persuasive

Do Carbs Kill Your Brain




And an article by Dr. David Katz (whose work I quite like at Yale Prevention Research Center) who addresses his concerns with the book:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/822731

Part of his point being that getting rid of refined carbs is one (good) thing, but getting rid of all grains is quite another.
Thank you, I will read these articles.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:40 PM   #48
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I will look for this book at our local library. Thank you. I love reading! Especially now that I've ERd.
Wheat Belly is another one to read, if you really like to read this stuff. Also, Eat the Yolks is a nice romp, but it's not as common, so might not be in the library.

Anyway, thanks for posting the idea. I just go through all three of these books and ordered the Cyrex Panel 3 test because I'm not going to suffer through a gluten fee experiment without showing some sensitivity. I do think that non-celiac gluten sensitivity is "real". The traditional gluten sensitivity test only checked antibodies for one protein, so missed tons of people who were sensitive..some even had celiac. The cyrex panel checks a whole bunch of antibodies to a whole bunch of wheat proteins.

It is drop-dead easy to find x-purts that support the status quo, so those references mean little to me. This book is extreme in its dietary recommendations, but lays out a bunch of undisputed facts that I found interesting. Even if you don't agree with the conclusions, the set of facts set forth are interesting on their own. Like the way the wheat genome has been manipulated from something with a few genes to something with tons of genes. That means that those genes added to make the wheat easier to grow also encode for a bunch of proteins that our fairly recent ancestors did not have to deal with.

What consumer reports said was basically that if you buy the gluten free product off the shelf on a whim, you are doing yourself a disservice. They, and I, think going partially gluten free, if that makes any sense, is not doing you any good. If you DO go gluten free, you get rid of it all, and you don't replace the wheat based foods with some other grain. Just forget about fake bread and fake muffins...eat non processed food instead.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:41 PM   #49
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I cut grains from my diet about 3 months ago and I feel so much better. I had already been gluten free for 4 years but eliminating all grains has really helped with energy, decreased fatigue, memory and weight loss.

I wish I could eat anything but I have numerous food sensitives with gluten and dairy being the strongest.
Glad to hear that you are feeling great with going grain-free.
May I ask if you now eat mostly vegetables, limited amounts of high-quality proteins and fats?

Are you planning to remain grain free? I find it really hard to give up rice. I still eat rice 3 to 5 times a week.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:03 PM   #50
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What consumer reports said was basically that if you buy the gluten free product off the shelf on a whim, you are doing yourself a disservice. They, and I, think going partially gluten free, if that makes any sense, is not doing you any good. If you DO go gluten free, you get rid of it all, and you don't replace the wheat based foods with some other grain. Just forget about fake bread and fake muffins...eat non processed food instead.
A little over a year ago, DH and I did a test to see if we had any gluten sensitivity. I do believe that some people (apart from those with celiac disease) have sensitivity to gluten. And, I could see how people might not just know this.

So, we went gluten free for a month to see what happened. During that month we did not eat gluten at all. For the first 2 weeks I went grain free entirely (DH didn't). After that, I did eat some limited grains that had no gluten (corn tortillas, brown rice). We looked at the gluten-free section in the store and decided that the majority of it was gluten-free junk food. No, I don't need to eat gluten-free cookies.

I don't personally eat a lot of bread. The other day I had a tuna sandwich and that was the first bread I had had in weeks. DH, on the other hand, likes bread and eats it every day. So, we looked at some of the gluten-free breads such as those made with rice flour. We elected not to get that either.

In our case, we found absolutely no difference between how we felt before and how we felt after being without gluten for 30 days. It was an interesting experiment and we both concluded that gluten doesn't happen to bother us.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:20 PM   #51
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I think (hope) I will be blessed with no sensitivity as well. Going truly gluten free is a RPITA, so I spent $375 to possibly avoid the GF experiment on myself. I had planned 3 months, then add gluten back, and see if there's any noticable change. But if the big panel comes back clean on all antibodies, I'll just not worry about it, and avoid the hassle of going GF.
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:16 PM   #52
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Glad to hear that you are feeling great with going grain-free.

May I ask if you now eat mostly vegetables, limited amounts of high-quality proteins and fats?



Are you planning to remain grain free? I find it really hard to give up rice. I still eat rice 3 to 5 times a week.

I am mostly paleo so I eat high quality meat, vegetables, eggs, and fruit. I am also sensitive to nuts (headaches) so I have to avoid those as well. I have recently reintroduced rice successfully which is super helpful. I am planning to continue eating rice a few times a week as long as I can keep my energy levels up. I don't plan on adding back other grains or sugar.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:32 AM   #53
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Are you planning to remain grain free? I find it really hard to give up rice. I still eat rice 3 to 5 times a week.
Gluten Free Food List for a Healthy Brain - Start A Gluten Free Diet

Look at the "non gluten grains" you can eat in moderation. Rice is on the list. I think it's in the book too.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:48 PM   #54
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Obviously people have been eating grains for several millennia.
Actually, humans have only consumed cereal grains for about the last 10,000 years or less, representing 0.4% of our evolutionary history. Dr. Loren Cordain provides more details:
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The so-called "Agricultural Revolution" (primarily the domestication of animals, cereal grains, and legumes) occurred first in the Near East about 10,000 years ago and spread to northern Europe by about 5,000 years ago [Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1993]. The industrial revolution occurred roughly 200 years ago, and the technological revolution which brought us packaged, processed foods is primarily a development that has occurred in the past 100 years and has seen enormous growth in the last 50 years.
To gauge how little geologic or evolutionary time humans have been exposed to foods wrought by the agricultural revolution, let's do a little paper experiment. Take a stack of computer paper (the kind in which each page is connected to one another) and count out 212 eleven-inch (28-cm) pages. Then unravel the stack of paper and lay it out end to end--it will form a continuous 194-foot (59-meter) strip. Now, let's assume that 1 inch (2.54 cm) equals 1,000 years in our 194-foot strip of computer paper; thus, the first part of the first page represents the emergence of our genus 2.33 MYA and the last part of the last page represents the present day.
Now, take a slow walk down all 194 feet of the computer paper, and carefully look at each of the individual eleven-inch sections. When you get to the very last eleven-inch section (the 212th section), this represents approximately the beginning of agriculture in the Mideast 10,000 years ago; therefore, during the preceding 211 sheets humanity's foods were derived from wild plants and animals. This little experiment will allow you to fully grasp how recent in the human evolutionary experience are cereal grains.


Humans may have indeed eaten these foods for "millennia," but millennia (even 10 millennia) in the overall timeframe of human existence represents 0.4%. Because the estimated amount of genetic change (0.005%) which has occurred in the human genome over this time period is negligible, the genetic makeup of modern man has remained essentially unchanged from that of pre-agricultural man [Eaton et al. 1985].
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If Cordain is correct, and I have no reason to doubt his information, consuming grains (at least large quantities of grains) is probably not a great idea (if you are trying to maintain optimum health).
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:18 PM   #55
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Actually, humans have only consumed cereal grains for about the last 10,000 years or less, representing 0.4% of our evolutionary history. Dr. Loren Cordain provides more details:
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The so-called "Agricultural Revolution" (primarily the domestication of animals, cereal grains, and legumes) occurred first in the Near East about 10,000 years ago and spread to northern Europe by about 5,000 years ago [Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1993].
Isn't this a pretty good example of several millennia?


Ha
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:04 AM   #56
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Isn't this a pretty good example of several millennia?


Ha
Yes. My point was that even 10,000 years represents a very, very small portion of human evolutionary history. As Cordain points out, the human genome has only changed by .005% over the same time period.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:40 AM   #57
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Yes. My point was that even 10,000 years represents a very, very small portion of human evolutionary history. As Cordain points out, the human genome has only changed by .005% over the same time period.
More recent evidence shows that the human genome is not quite that stable and is continuing to evolve over the last few thousand years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/07/sc...olve.html?_r=0

IMHO- Modern medicine may be accelerating population genomic change. Many with genetically-linked diseases which were uniformly fatal in childhood are now living into adulthood and having children. Even some conditions we might view as only bothersome today would have been huge problems a few millennia ago. The incidence of near-sightedness, which has a significant genetic propensity, is increasing worldwide over just a few generations.
Eye - Epidemiology of myopia
I've worn glasses since childhood and can easily see (pun intended) that my chances of surviving and reproducing 10k yrs ago as a hunter-gatherer would have been quite slim
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:38 PM   #58
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Obviously people have been eating grains for several millennia...
One more comment about this...the wheat humans ate for most of the 10,000 years had six genes. So the instructions for producing proteins was limited by that. Modern wheat has something like 24 genes, and that has only shown up in the last hundreds of years. Bottom line...most of the time humans were eating wheat, it was not what we find in the center isles of the grocery store today...that stuff has a whole lot more going on than the original wheat.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:14 PM   #59
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One more comment about this...the wheat humans ate for most of the 10,000 years had six genes. So the instructions for producing proteins was limited by that. Modern wheat has something like 24 genes, and that has only shown up in the last hundreds of years.
Um. Actually, modern hexaploid wheat has an estimated estimated 164,000 to 334,000 genes, from 16,000,000,000 base pairs. As a hexaploid cell, wheat cells contain six copies of each of its seven chromosomes, for 42 chromosomes total. I don't think it was fully sequenced until just a couple years ago.

The earliest einkorn wheat was diploid. Emmer and durum wheats are derived from wild emmer, a tetraploid plant that was a cross between two diploid wild grasses, one of which was a goatgrass. Oh, and emmer came along long before us monkeyboys started banging the genomes together. The modern tetraploid wheats are crosses between emmer or durum wheat and Tausch's goatgrass, which adds it's genome to make modern wheat.

So, yaay goatgrass! You're baking with it.


(More info in "Plant Evolution and the Origin of Crop Species", James F. Hancock, 2004)
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:08 PM   #60
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One more comment about this...the wheat humans ate for most of the 10,000 years had six genes. So the instructions for producing proteins was limited by that. Modern wheat has something like 24 genes, and that has only shown up in the last hundreds of years.
Um. Actually, modern hexaploid wheat has an estimated estimated 164,000 to 334,000 genes, from 16,000,000,000 base pairs. As a hexaploid cell, wheat cells contain six copies of each of its seven chromosomes, for 42 chromosomes total. .....

So, yaay goatgrass! You're baking with it.


(More info in "Plant Evolution and the Origin of Crop Species", James F. Hancock, 2004)
OK, it seems a bit 'out there' to say that wheat went from 6 genes to 24 genes in a few hundred years, but I'm not following the response .., can this be broken down into something closer to layman's language?

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