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Old 03-30-2013, 07:51 PM   #21
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.. Medicare starts at 65. RMD's start at 70 1/2.
You're right. I knew that but wasn't thinking.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:54 PM   #22
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Even if you are young/healthy, ACA completely removes the uncertainty of not qualifying for medical care at a later date. This reduction of uncertainty has substantial value to me, and I imagine to many others.
Of course we are not all going to pay the same for that reduction of uncertainty. So YMMV when it comes to "value".
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:13 PM   #23
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In short, no. A few years from now, I predict there will be many articles noting the the PPACA had an unintended positive effect on the economy because of all the early retirees that gave up their jobs in 2014 & 2015- opening career advancement to younger folks at a stage in life where they spend the extra money they make more so than saving it.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:53 AM   #24
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Our answer is 'maybe'.

It is definitely our Plan C, but there are several important issues.

Pre-existing conditions can bar you from many off-shore HI options. Maybe. If you are on the ground in a foreign country and trying to enroll in the national health system, sometimes they won't even ask, but they can still cancel your enrollment. I have read that this has happened to some retirees in Mexico. I have also read that some have been cancelled later for no apparent reason. Private insurance is more rigid and will reject you up front. Some will take you conditionally with a 1-year waiting period for treatment related to your pre-existing condition, but I have read that their interpretation of what is related may be very broad and leave you high and dry when you need it most.

Age can bar you as well. This is not discussed very often in ER fora, but it was an unpleasant discovery for me. Many national and private HI will not let you sign up after 65 or 70. Not a problem for most ERs, but a show-stopper for us.

For private expat HI, do your research. Some companies are better than others and some have many complaints. Don't let the lowest cost blind you to

I started researching this about 15 years ago in desperation when I realized our situation at the time put us at great risk. Be aware that the terms and conditions change all the time and never to your advantage. As an expat myself, I see these things up close. We made it to Medicare safely last year, but I keep a weather eye on the situation.

MichaelB's comment is very good.

KevinK's is very good as well. The issue of long-term care is a separate issue and I am very interested in it. The Lake Chapala area is on top of my list.

I had not thought of this one. Brilliant!
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How about this for our US people in the US near Toronto or Vancouver: Buy a Buba policy and drive over the border for health care? Might work for people all along any international border. Or you could do your patriotic duty and earn $1 more than the cliff subsidy cliff amount and drop, what is it, 30% of your income into a policy that your current doctor doesn't participate in :-)
Sad to say, I am with the cynics on the US public healthcare systems, ACA and Medicare. Sooner or later I am afraid that we the public will be devastated by the actual costs. And, like Ha, I have complete faith that our government will then make even more destructive decisions. Nevertheless, we are participating as it is the best option for us for now.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:35 AM   #25
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No.
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Might those that FIREd, or are planning on it soon, and are a long way from Medicare considering bailing out of the whole obamacare thing by just getting heath insurance and healthcare outside of the US?

--Dale-
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:55 AM   #26
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I might add that if someone is considering expatriation for cost reasons, think about other costs as well. Flying back and forth to see the kids, etc, can zap any savings. Trying to buy back into the real estate market may be impossible when returning after a few years.

If you want to expatriate for cost reasons, be mentally prepared to close the door behind you and not look back. I can do this. DW has problems with it. Not to be embarked upon lightly. We have this as our Plan C, for survival in the extreme case.

Having said that, the Kaderlis and others have managed quite well. Are you ready to do things they way they do?

(Sorry, my responses have been slightly off-topic. The original question was addressed to potential early retirees, not my cohort. Depending on how things develop with costs, it may be advantageous for an adventurous younger person to skip the country. My comments on other factors still apply. I agree that for someone already inclined, it may make the decision easier. It is hard to imagine it as a primary driving force, however.)
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:17 AM   #27
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Some commentors think that is a design feature. ACA may turn into a disaster so rapidly, that single payer will come very quickly, if only to avert bankruptcy

I am not at all sure that would be good, or optimal, but when some statist solution does not work, almost always the next step is never to go toward a more market oriented system, but instead to increase state involvement.

Ha
I have no idea either, but when policies have similar, standard components and are brought to market across a similar platform the move to single payer is easier than it is today.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:32 AM   #28
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Some commentors think that is a design feature. ACA may turn into a disaster so rapidly, that single payer will come very quickly......
That same thought has crossed my mind a number of times that the objective was to make the system so bad that people would then be willing to try single payer based on a view that it couldn't be worse.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:34 AM   #29
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maybe some would but I doubt many....

We're in relatively good health and so I view the ACA as another factor that could enable our early retirement.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:35 AM   #30
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Nope. Staying put.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:48 AM   #31
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Looking forward to single payer. After we try everything that doesn't work.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:54 AM   #32
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To the OP, I don't get it. Under Obamacare, you can elect to pay for HI and get coverage pre-existing conditions or not or you can elect to forgo HI and pay a tiny tax penalty. If your income is low you get a subsidy to make HI affordable. Prior to Obamacare, you might be able to get HI or might not depending on the whims of fate. You paid the full tab for whatever you could get unless you were impoverished. How is Obamacare more threatening to your ER? Or are you hinting at the "this is the end of freedom" socialist disaster mime that some of the black helicopter crowd espouse? In that later case, you should flee the US regardless of HI since the whole shooting match is going down the tubes soon anyway.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:25 AM   #33
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I smell bacon!!!!
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:27 AM   #34
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These PPACA threads are interesting and useful. Hopefully we can keep them open and stay on topic...
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:52 AM   #35
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This OP is the one who was recently advising Kahn to ask for a carotid IMT test for her first visit to her doctor in 20 years... Not sure where he / she gets his / her medical information, insurance or otherwise, from.
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To the OP, I don't get it. .
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:56 AM   #36
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I keep my posts in healthcare-related threads very short, trying to stay out of trouble with the mods :-)
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These PPACA threads are interesting and useful. Hopefully we can keep them open and stay on topic...
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:22 AM   #37
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My opinion is Obamacare make it much easier to retire early. medical insurance is usually the biggest issue.

If you felt you had enough money to retire and you can guarantee yourself medical insurance why not.

I agree that Obamacare is a bad deal for younger people but for those 55to 64
its a good deal.

if you were super healthy and wanted/could get a high deductible plan you may not,but for most other early retires its a good deal.

Romneycare in mass. made my decision to retire at 62 easy. i budgeted for the insurance. I may look into getting subsidized starting next year because i can control my income but even if not the ease of applying online and getting with ease was good.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:01 PM   #38
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My opinion is Obamacare make it much easier to retire early. medical insurance is usually the biggest issue.

If you felt you had enough money to retire and you can guarantee yourself medical insurance why not.

I agree that Obamacare is a bad deal for younger people but for those 55to 64
its a good deal.

if you were super healthy and wanted/could get a high deductible plan you may not,but for most other early retires its a good deal.

Romneycare in mass. made my decision to retire at 62 easy. i budgeted for the insurance. I may look into getting subsidized starting next year because i can control my income but even if not the ease of applying online and getting with ease was good.
I agree that for many people, it WILL be a good deal to enable ER. But I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not universally a good deal for everyone. If you need to pull from traditional IRA's, for instance, and your income would be over the subsidy cliff, that would have you paying something like 30% of your income to cover the policy. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert in this (have only just started to research it), but there also seems to be a suggestion that not all practices would even accept the insurance. Once we get prices, and see which practices accept the payment schedule, we will be able to answer with a higher level of confidence. I predict that fewer people in the group I selected in post 1 of this thread will think it's a good idea as time goes on. I even doubt that the 400% FPL will hold (yes, wild guess from someone that doesn't know shinola), pulling more people over the cliff.

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Old 03-31-2013, 09:14 PM   #39
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I agree that for many people, it WILL be a good deal to enable ER. But I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not universally a good deal for everyone. If you need to pull from traditional IRA's, for instance, and your income would be over the subsidy cliff, that would have you paying something like 30% of your income to cover the policy. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert in this (have only just started to research it), but there also seems to be a suggestion that not all practices would even accept the insurance. Once we get prices, and see which practices accept the payment schedule, we will be able to answer with a higher level of confidence. I predict that fewer people in the group I selected in post 1 of this thread will think it's a good idea as time goes on. I even doubt that the 400% FPL will hold (yes, wild guess from someone that doesn't know shinola), pulling more people over the cliff.

--Dale--

although i am by no means an expert-the MAGI-is a catagory thats malleable-depending on how old you are when you retire. a couple ways around this-for most of the time anyways.

if your too young for ss-take 2-3 years withdrawals in the same year-then say in 2 od the 3 years you can get the subsidy. you could do this every 3 years until you reach 62.

then-take at 62. social security if done correctly does not go on the MAGI line.

if managed correctly you could have a 60,000 income only 15,000 -20,000
that would show up on AGI line.

i could not do this in mass because mass with Romneycare adds SS in as a straight line item but on federal its not. i suggest you look at a 1040 form and figure out ways to AGI down even if its not every year.

next year when mass has to adopt the Obamacare guidlines thats what i will be doing
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:36 PM   #40
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although i am by no means an expert-the MAGI-is a catagory thats malleable-depending on how old you are when you retire. a couple ways around this-for most of the time anyways.

if your too young for ss-take 2-3 years withdrawals in the same year-then say in 2 od the 3 years you can get the subsidy. you could do this every 3 years until you reach 62.

then-take at 62. social security if done correctly does not go on the MAGI line.

if managed correctly you could have a 60,000 income only 15,000 -20,000
that would show up on AGI line.

i could not do this in mass because mass with Romneycare adds SS in as a straight line item but on federal its not. i suggest you look at a 1040 form and figure out ways to AGI down even if its not every year.

next year when mass has to adopt the Obamacare guidlines thats what i will be doing
Reading about your complicated planned manipulations of MAGI in order to achieve the max subsidy for ObamaCare while still having a nice spendable cash flow makes me think that the methodology the gov't has planned to determine subsidy eligibility is poorly thought out. If having folks who unfortunately cross the subsidy barrier find themselves with an insurance bill that is a large percentage of their income isn't what the gov't intended, why did they write it that way? What were they thinking?
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