Has the Threat of ACA Pushed People Toward Retiring "Overseas"?

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I might add that if someone is considering expatriation for cost reasons, think about other costs as well. Flying back and forth to see the kids, etc, can zap any savings. Trying to buy back into the real estate market may be impossible when returning after a few years.

If you want to expatriate for cost reasons, be mentally prepared to close the door behind you and not look back. I can do this. DW has problems with it. Not to be embarked upon lightly. We have this as our Plan C, for survival in the extreme case.

Having said that, the Kaderlis and others have managed quite well. Are you ready to do things they way they do?

(Sorry, my responses have been slightly off-topic. The original question was addressed to potential early retirees, not my cohort. Depending on how things develop with costs, it may be advantageous for an adventurous younger person to skip the country. My comments on other factors still apply. I agree that for someone already inclined, it may make the decision easier. It is hard to imagine it as a primary driving force, however.)

 

[MichaelB]

Some commentors think that is a design feature. ACA may turn into a disaster so rapidly, that single payer will come very quickly, if only to avert bankruptcy

I am not at all sure that would be good, or optimal, but when some statist solution does not work, almost always the next step is never to go toward a more market oriented system, but instead to increase state involvement.

Ha

I have no idea either, but when policies have similar, standard components and are brought to market across a similar platform the move to single payer is easier than it is today.

 

[pb4uski]

Some commentors think that is a design feature. ACA may turn into a disaster so rapidly, that single payer will come very quickly......

That same thought has crossed my mind a number of times that the objective was to make the system so bad that people would then be willing to try single payer based on a view that it couldn't be worse.

 

[keegs]

maybe some would but I doubt many....

We're in relatively good health and so I view the ACA as another factor that could enable our early retirement.

 

[Dawg52]

Nope. Staying put.

 

[winger]

Looking forward to single payer. After we try everything that doesn't work.

 

[donheff]

To the OP, I don't get it. Under Obamacare, you can elect to pay for HI and get coverage pre-existing conditions or not or you can elect to forgo HI and pay a tiny tax penalty. If your income is low you get a subsidy to make HI affordable. Prior to Obamacare, you might be able to get HI or might not depending on the whims of fate. You paid the full tab for whatever you could get unless you were impoverished. How is Obamacare more threatening to your ER? Or are you hinting at the "this is the end of freedom" socialist disaster mime that some of the black helicopter crowd espouse? In that later case, you should flee the US regardless of HI since the whole shooting match is going down the tubes soon anyway.

 

[pb4uski]

I smell bacon!!!!

 

[MichaelB]

These PPACA threads are interesting and useful. Hopefully we can keep them open and stay on topic...

 

[obgyn65]

This OP is the one who was recently advising Kahn to ask for a carotid IMT test for her first visit to her doctor in 20 years... Not sure where he / she gets his / her medical information, insurance or otherwise, from.

To the OP, I don't get it. .

 

[obgyn65]

I keep my posts in healthcare-related threads very short, trying to stay out of trouble with the mods

These PPACA threads are interesting and useful. Hopefully we can keep them open and stay on topic...

 

[gerrym51]

My opinion is Obamacare make it much easier to retire early. medical insurance is usually the biggest issue.

If you felt you had enough money to retire and you can guarantee yourself medical insurance why not.

I agree that Obamacare is a bad deal for younger people but for those 55to 64
its a good deal.

if you were super healthy and wanted/could get a high deductible plan you may not,but for most other early retires its a good deal.

Romneycare in mass. made my decision to retire at 62 easy. i budgeted for the insurance. I may look into getting subsidized starting next year because i can control my income but even if not the ease of applying online and getting with ease was good.

 

[sengsational]

My opinion is Obamacare make it much easier to retire early. medical insurance is usually the biggest issue.

If you felt you had enough money to retire and you can guarantee yourself medical insurance why not.

I agree that Obamacare is a bad deal for younger people but for those 55to 64
its a good deal.

if you were super healthy and wanted/could get a high deductible plan you may not,but for most other early retires its a good deal.

Romneycare in mass. made my decision to retire at 62 easy. i budgeted for the insurance. I may look into getting subsidized starting next year because i can control my income but even if not the ease of applying online and getting with ease was good.

I agree that for many people, it WILL be a good deal to enable ER. But I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not universally a good deal for everyone. If you need to pull from traditional IRA's, for instance, and your income would be over the subsidy cliff, that would have you paying something like 30% of your income to cover the policy. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert in this (have only just started to research it), but there also seems to be a suggestion that not all practices would even accept the insurance. Once we get prices, and see which practices accept the payment schedule, we will be able to answer with a higher level of confidence. I predict that fewer people in the group I selected in post 1 of this thread will think it's a good idea as time goes on. I even doubt that the 400% FPL will hold (yes, wild guess from someone that doesn't know shinola), pulling more people over the cliff.

--Dale--

 

[gerrym51]

I agree that for many people, it WILL be a good deal to enable ER. But I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not universally a good deal for everyone. If you need to pull from traditional IRA's, for instance, and your income would be over the subsidy cliff, that would have you paying something like 30% of your income to cover the policy. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert in this (have only just started to research it), but there also seems to be a suggestion that not all practices would even accept the insurance. Once we get prices, and see which practices accept the payment schedule, we will be able to answer with a higher level of confidence. I predict that fewer people in the group I selected in post 1 of this thread will think it's a good idea as time goes on. I even doubt that the 400% FPL will hold (yes, wild guess from someone that doesn't know shinola), pulling more people over the cliff.

--Dale--

although i am by no means an expert-the MAGI-is a catagory thats malleable-depending on how old you are when you retire. a couple ways around this-for most of the time anyways.

if your too young for ss-take 2-3 years withdrawals in the same year-then say in 2 od the 3 years you can get the subsidy. you could do this every 3 years until you reach 62.

then-take at 62. social security if done correctly does not go on the MAGI line.

if managed correctly you could have a 60,000 income only 15,000 -20,000
that would show up on AGI line.

i could not do this in mass because mass with Romneycare adds SS in as a straight line item but on federal its not. i suggest you look at a 1040 form and figure out ways to AGI down even if its not every year.

next year when mass has to adopt the Obamacare guidlines thats what i will be doing

 

[youbet]

although i am by no means an expert-the MAGI-is a catagory thats malleable-depending on how old you are when you retire. a couple ways around this-for most of the time anyways.

if your too young for ss-take 2-3 years withdrawals in the same year-then say in 2 od the 3 years you can get the subsidy. you could do this every 3 years until you reach 62.

then-take at 62. social security if done correctly does not go on the MAGI line.

if managed correctly you could have a 60,000 income only 15,000 -20,000
that would show up on AGI line.

i could not do this in mass because mass with Romneycare adds SS in as a straight line item but on federal its not. i suggest you look at a 1040 form and figure out ways to AGI down even if its not every year.

next year when mass has to adopt the Obamacare guidlines thats what i will be doing

Reading about your complicated planned manipulations of MAGI in order to achieve the max subsidy for ObamaCare while still having a nice spendable cash flow makes me think that the methodology the gov't has planned to determine subsidy eligibility is poorly thought out. If having folks who unfortunately cross the subsidy barrier find themselves with an insurance bill that is a large percentage of their income isn't what the gov't intended, why did they write it that way? What were they thinking?

 

[ERhoosier]

Reading about your complicated planned manipulations of MAGI in order to achieve the max subsidy for ObamaCare while still having a nice spendable cash flow makes me think that the methodology the gov't has planned to determine subsidy eligibility is poorly thought out. If having folks who unfortunately cross the subsidy barrier find themselves with an insurance bill that is a large percentage of their income isn't what the gov't intended, why did they write it that way? What were they thinking?

Political BS, obviously

 

[gerrym51]

Political BS, obviously

i have been researching MAGI for obamacare. appearently if a stat sets up an exchange they can configure magi as they want. untaxable ss in the federal governments magi.

 

[MichaelB]

MAGI was defined when the PPACA was passed. The normal process of comments and changes was followed. The final clarification was released here http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-05-23/pdf/2012-12421.pdf

There is only one definition of MAGI for the PPACa

c. Modified Adjusted Gross Income
Under the proposed regulations, modified adjusted gross income is adjusted gross income increased by amounts excluded from gross income under section 911 and tax-exempt interest a taxpayer receives or accrues during the taxable year. The 3% Withholding Repeal and Job Creation Act, Public Law 112–56 (125 Stat. 711 (2011)), which was enacted after the proposed regulations were published, amended the definition of modified adjusted gross income to include Social Security benefits (as defined in section 86(d)) not included in gross income under section 86. The final regulations reflect this amendment.

 

[timo2]

No. as others have stated, it's a lifestyle choice primarily. My DW has wanted to go to Ireland, but I have health issues in humid climates.

 

[M Paquette]

International Federation of Health Plans 2012 Comparative Price Report

For those interested in 'what it costs' overseas, the International Federation of Health Plans has just released their 2012 comparative price report.

(PDF document) http://www.ifhp.com/documents/2012iFHPPriceReportFINALMarch25.pdf

This year’s survey includes new prescription drug prices in response to increased interest in this area from plans in many countries. We have also added three new non-drug items to our survey: hip prosthesis, knee replacement, and colonoscopy.
Prices for each country are submitted by participating federation member plans, and are drawn from different sectors:
• Prices for Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom are from the public sector, with data provided by one health plan in each country.
• Prices for Australia, Chile, the Netherlands, Spain, and South Africa are from the private sector and represent prices paid by one private health plan in each country.
• Prices for France and Argentina are a blend of public and private sector prices with the data provided by one health plan in each country.
• Prices for the United States are calculated from a database with over 100 million paid claims that reflect prices negotiated between thousands of providers and almost a hundred health plans.

Comparisons across different countries are complicated by differences in sectors, fee schedules, and systems. In addition, for some countries a single plan’s prices are real for that plan but may not be representative of prices paid by other plans in that market. The U.S. numbers are based on an aggregate of over a 100 million paid claims across multiple payers.

 

[marko]

although i am by no means an expert-the MAGI-is a catagory thats malleable-depending on how old you are when you retire. a couple ways around this-for most of the time anyways.

if your too young for ss-take 2-3 years withdrawals in the same year-then say in 2 od the 3 years you can get the subsidy. you could do this every 3 years until you reach 62.

then-take at 62. social security if done correctly does not go on the MAGI line.

if managed correctly you could have a 60,000 income only 15,000 -20,000
that would show up on AGI line.

i could not do this in mass because mass with Romneycare adds SS in as a straight line item but on federal its not. i suggest you look at a 1040 form and figure out ways to AGI down even if its not every year.

next year when mass has to adopt the Obamacare guidlines thats what i will be doing

Last time I checked, SS is counted as MAGI for O'care. Again, hope I"m wrong!

 

[gardenfun]

I guess I'm a homebody. The idea of having to move abroad away from family and friends and my garden just to have (more) affordable health care is depressing to me. I'll figure it out here at home...

 

[anethum]

Sengsational, I don't think you've explained why you think the ACA might push people toward retiring overseas. At present, retirees without health insurance through their former jobs either have to pay a lot for it, or they are unable to get health insurance. After the ACA goes fully in effect next year, at least early retirees who can't get health insurance at present will finally be able to get it. If anything, it seems to me it would reduce the number of retirees who would be inclined to move overseas mainly for health care reasons.

 

[gerrym51]

Last time I checked, SS is counted as MAGI for O'care. Again, hope I"m wrong!

no you are right. it was at first not included then amended

 

[tulak]

I agree that for many people, it WILL be a good deal to enable ER. But I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not universally a good deal for everyone. If you need to pull from traditional IRA's, for instance, and your income would be over the subsidy cliff, that would have you paying something like 30% of your income to cover the policy. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert in this (have only just started to research it), but there also seems to be a suggestion that not all practices would even accept the insurance. Once we get prices, and see which practices accept the payment schedule, we will be able to answer with a higher level of confidence. I predict that fewer people in the group I selected in post 1 of this thread will think it's a good idea as time goes on. I even doubt that the 400% FPL will hold (yes, wild guess from someone that doesn't know shinola), pulling more people over the cliff.

--Dale--

I don't get it. Right now if you retire, you get no subsidy. How is this different with ACA?

It seems like with ACA, you should be better off, since you might be able to get a subsidy. If not every year, then every other year if you manage your income right.

I don't see how this can be any worse than what exists today, assuming that HI policies cost about the same. But maybe I'm missing something...