health care gone nuts!

[ducky911]

our heath care goes up every year. with the next upage it will be just short of 20k.

thats nut. I am 60 and my wife is 57. both in good health. !y wife does take 3 different meds and I think they ding her for 50% add on. I do not even go to the doctor well not much.

We have a 1500 dollar deductable each. Here in CA anthem blue cross is about the only way to go. We have asked for quotes for higher deductable.

Just wondering what you all think about how high heath care is.

Bob

 

[zaqxsw]

I couldn't agree more. We're at $14k/yr., but I have gotten a partial subsidy since I retired that pays a portion of that. I'm keeping my expectations really low on it continuing. I'm OK through 2013, but am only 58. Long ways to go!

Even employed folks are getting hit big time. Eaton Corp, a HUGE Co., will only offer a HDHP in 2014, so I'm told. On top of the premiums, you end up paying for everything anyway. We're only a couple of years away from health insurance just covering major medical. When everyone has to pay out of their own pocket, maybe we'll get some savings.

Health insurance has to change, and it is suppose to. If it doesn't, neither companies nor the middle class will be able to afford insurance. Companies are already bailing out of this benefit.

 

[pb4uski]

Our 2013 premiums (for 2) are about $8k a year for a high deductible plan (~$6k stacked deductible IIRC) but since we are both healthy our total costs are probably $10-12k a year. The premiums above include a 13% increase over 2012 premiums.

This is less than what my COBRA would have been and less than what I budgeted for when I decided to retire, but I was being intentionally very conservative.

One thing I did do it to create a LLC for my minimal consulting work and the LLC sponsors a small group health insurance plan where the participants (me and DW) pay 100% of the cost, so I was able to get insurance for about 20% less than an individual plan.

 

[MichaelB]

our heath care goes up every year. with the next upage it will be just short of 20k.

thats nut. I am 60 and my wife is 57. both in good health. !y wife does take 3 different meds and I think they ding her for 50% add on. I do not even go to the doctor well not much.

We have a 1500 dollar deductable each. Here in CA anthem blue cross is about the only way to go. We have asked for quotes for higher deductable.

Just wondering what you all think about how high heath care is.

Bob

That's a lot. It is nuts. The health care status quo stinks.

ETA: Our cost for 2013 will be $20.8K, with $5K deductible each.

 

[sheehs1]

Husband and I both are 57. Our premiums are running $9,408 a year with Anthem Premier $3,500 deductible. (east coast) It is crazy that we are all paying the prices we are paying before we set foot in a doctors office or have a prescription filled. So far we are in good health.

 

[grasshopper]

On our BCBS anniversary we received a letter from BCBS stating we had saved $583 on our HC this year. Excuse me, it only cost us $8460.00 to save $583.

 

[Midpack]

It is nuts. The health care status quo stinks.

It is nuts! And there are far more cost effective models (at least 30) for us to work toward all around the world, beyond that I won't restate my views. But it's just another of many cans we ALL kick down the road. We're Americans, we know better than everyone else...

We'll do the right thing eventually, but probably only after exhausting all other (unworkable) options - to paraphrase Churchill.

Did anyone see the related segment on 60 Minutes last night? Just one piece of a large, messy puzzle...

Hospitals: The cost of admission - 60 Minutes - CBS News

 

[kevink]

Those kinds of numbers are what drove us to move to Mexico until either the Medicaid coverage for lower incomes in ACA kicks in or at least one of us is eligible for SS. Many on this board are far better off, but consider what % of your total income goes to health care premiums (with actual health care of course on top of them!) on a 3% SWR from a $1M portfolio. It can easily be 33%-50% of your draw. Crazy indeed!

 

[ducky911]

Thanks ,

Looks like I am not the only one. I thought health care reform might help me. I am wondering if these increases are because of health care reform or do we have a big surprize still to come as it kicks in?

I think that someone should have been able to estimate these increased costs. There has to be someone with the numbers sitting at a desk seeing the need for a 25% increase for 2013... and?? 35% increase for 2014..?? and well lets round it off at just double it for 2015 and each year after that.

is it to late to go to med school?

Bob

ps....I thought to skin the cat I would buy stock in my insurance company..it is owned my Wellpoint and is on the exchange...but pays only 1% div and although it has wild swings it is flat for the last three years...where oh where is this money going?

 

[pb4uski]

Actually most of the 13% increase in premiums in 2013 compared to 2012 was attributable to mandated expanded benefits (including contraceptives) and are benefits that it is highly unlikely will benefit us, so we are paying more to subsidize others.

I suspect that premiums will skyrocket in 2014 when health care reform becomes more effective but the increase will be partially offset by subsidies.

P.S. I'm not sure that buying health insurance stocks will be an effective hedge. While their sales will likely increase there are also limitations on the profits they can have.

 

[MichaelB]

Actually most of the 13% increase in premiums in 2013 compared to 2012 was attributable to mandated expanded benefits (including contraceptives) and are benefits that it is highly unlikely will benefit us, so we are paying more to subsidize others.

I suspect that premiums will skyrocket in 2014 when health care reform becomes more effective but the increase will be partially offset by subsidies.

P.S. I'm not sure that buying health insurance stocks will be an effective hedge. While their sales will likely increase there are also limitations on the profits they can have.

Big cost items for insurance companies, such as coverage for children up to age 26 and mandated preventive care with no cost sharing, were implemented in 2010 and 2011. There are no new measures being implemented in 2013 that affect consumer health plans.

 

[fh2000]

My wife and I are still working. Our premium with our companies' group plans totaled $6000 this year. We paid around $3000 OOP so far. So, this is almost 9K while working.

We thought we could plan to retire after PPACA, but the more we read, the more uncertain we are with so many unknowns. DW said one of us better stay working until at least middle of 2015, then decide.

 

[Lsbcal]

...(snip)...

ps....I thought to skin the cat I would buy stock in my insurance company..it is owned my Wellpoint and is on the exchange...but pays only 1% div and although it has wild swings it is flat for the last three years...where oh where is this money going?

If you look at a broad fund that invests in the health care industry like Vanguard Health Care Fund, it is only slightly better then the SP500 over 10 years. Even the energy sector did better by a lot (VGENX). So I don't think we can lay this on the private companies, at least the broad sector.

When I go to the supermarket, I pay the same price as the other people in line (ignoring coupons and such). Why isn't this a level playing field? Why should people of the same age who work (or retired from) at XYZ get a great deal and others who work for YZX get a bum deal?

This is clearly a political problem but we will not solve it soon. Too many interest groups. And we don't want a political thread here.

So what do you do? ... fight for the best deal for yourself. When you hit Medicare age, things may get relatively better. Unless politicians screw that up even more then it is screwed up already.

P.S. In my case I'm going on Medicare in a few months. Even if they raise the Medicare premium by 100% to around $200/month, the Medigap plans (supplemental plans) available seem to be a lot better (costs + benefits) at the Medicare age point.

 

[Zathras]

...
Did anyone see the related segment on 60 Minutes last night? Just one piece of a large, messy puzzle...

Hospitals: The cost of admission - 60 Minutes - CBS News

I did, scary as heck and a good example of why pay for service doesn't work very well.

We pay about 12k in premiums each year (42 & 45). I do have to say I sleep much better at night knowing I don't have to worry about being dropped or hitting the lifetime cap (pre existing conditions) so I don't mind paying a bit more.

 

[FUEGO]

I think health insurance here is fine. Our premiums stayed the same as last year, and they expanded the benefits slightly. $40 per month. Nothing broken here. As long as DW keeps working...

 

[M Paquette]

That's a lot. It is nuts. The health care status quo stinks.

ETA: Our cost for 2013 will be $20.8K, with $5K deductible each.

Ouch. Our annual cost for a high deductible HSA eligible HMO plan is about 13K annually. For budgeting purposes I expect that to reach 20K annually in 4 years. (I'll be eligible for Medicare under the current rules in 6 years.) I assume a 12.5% annual increase.

 

[M Paquette]

Actually most of the 13% increase in premiums in 2013 compared to 2012 was attributable to mandated expanded benefits (including contraceptives) and are benefits that it is highly unlikely will benefit us, so we are paying more to subsidize others.

That might partially explain the 2010 and 2011 hikes I've seen (when the mandated benefits went into effect), but it doesn't explain all the other 10-13% hikes I've gotten over the past decade I've been tracking this. It is a puzzlement...

Ah, well. One more cost doubling, and I'm on Medicare (unless something else changes).

 

[ducky911]

I see some of you are getting increases from zero to 13%...We were just notified that our plan is going up 25% in feb 2014 oach!

 

[Katsmeow]

I see some of you are getting increases from zero to 13%...We were just notified that our plan is going up 25% in feb 2014 oach!

Ummm... Looks good to me. Our subsidized retiree coverage increased 265% for 2013. I would love a 25% increase....

 

[frayne]

I feel lucky (for now at least) our OOP premiums run about $6K a year for a simple 80/20 retiree plan thru Atena. Wife 58, me 61 and both in reasonably good health, worked for mega corp 32 years and have yet to get the news for the coming year premuim cost.

 

[nwsteve]

I went on medicare this year but the policy on DW through our small company went up 39% with a 2500 deductible !! Same Coverage as previous year. Good think she hits Medicare in May.
Nwsteve

 

[haha]

I can confidently predict that the so called reforms of the past few years will increase costs. Microeconomics 101-increase demand, and make no change in supply, prices can only go up.

Here's a chart that shows how the US stacks up internationally.

Healthcare Spending As A Share Of GDP - Business Insider

So far "reform" has consisted of trying to stick the other guy with the bill. Some day, likely when it is too late, we will figure out that the size of the bill must be decreased.

Look where Japan is on this chart. Japanese people live longer than anyone else on earth, and they like their health care system, their access to doctors, and their relationships with their doctors.

How many of us can say the same, and how many will be even as satisfied as we are today 5 years from now?

Ha

 

[ejman]

Same general ballpark. 2 adults ages 62 and 64 -Generally good health so far. $8,688 per year with a $10K deductible. Went up 6% compared to last year.

 

[ejman]

I can confidently predict that the so called reforms of the past few years will increase costs. Microeconomics 101-increase demand, and make no change in supply, prices can only go up.

Here's a chart that shows how the US stacks up internationally.

Healthcare Spending As A Share Of GDP - Business Insider

So far "reform" has consisted of trying to stick the other guy with the bill. Some day, likely when it is too late, we will figure out that the size of the bill must be decreased.

Look where Japan is on this chart. Japanese people live longer than anyone else on earth, and they like their health care system, their access to doctors, and their relationships with their doctors.

How many of us can say the same, and how many will be even as satisfied as we are today 5 years from now?

Ha

Per Wikipedia:

"The health care system in Japan provides healthcare services, including screening examinations, prenatal care and infectious disease control, with the patient accepting responsibility for 30% of these costs while the government pays the remaining 70%. Payment for personal medical services is offered through a universal health care insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. People without insurance through employers can participate in a national health insurance programme administered by local governments. Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice and cannot be denied coverage. Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians. For-profit corporations are not allowed to own or operate hospitals. Clinics must be owned and operated by physicians."

Sounds like a good system to me. However, the degree of government control and exclusion of for profit institutions might be a bit hard to implement here in the USA.

 

[pb4uski]

Big cost items for insurance companies, such as coverage for children up to age 26 and mandated preventive care with no cost sharing, were implemented in 2010 and 2011. There are no new measures being implemented in 2013 that affect consumer health plans.

I thought that in 2014 that insurers could no longer deny coverage for preexisting conditions and that would be a biggie. Already adopted in my state, but could be a cause for premium increases elsewhere. Is that right?