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Old 03-25-2013, 03:39 PM   #61
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When I selected the Platinum plan 0 deducible and clicked apply for the plan I got the following:

Application Checklist

So that you can complete the application easily and completely, be sure you have the following information available for each person applying for coverage.
  • Birth Date
  • Your Social Security Number
  • Height/weight for each person
  • Information on current and past health insurance plans (if applicable)
  • Medical history, such as dates of diagnosis, treatment, dates of service, and current status
  • Prescription drug information such as:
    drug names, dosages, and date initially prescribed.
  • Physician/treatment facility contact information
  • Payment information: For credit card payments, we accept Visa and MasterCard; for automatic bank withdrawal, please have your bank account number and bank routing number

This does not seem to be an ACA plan as they are asking for items that will not be used in ACA plans like medical history, height weight, etc.

Not sure what these plans have in common with future ACA plans other than including the same color names.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:45 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
Here's a link to Humana's plans in Texas - https://www.humana-one.com/secured/i...ce-quotes.aspx

Try inputting some fake info and getting a quote, you can use zip code 77005. All of the 2014-compliant plans are labeled with Bronze, Silver, Gold, or Platinum. Notice the price of all of the other existing plans in comparison to the 2014 ones.

Example: 60-year-old couple with two kids. Current plans - $635-1,987/month. 2014 plans - $1,693-5,236/month.

Example 2: 28-year-old couple with two kids. Current plans - $271-949/month. 2014 plans - $1,162-3,589/month.
I think this calculator may be broken.

I ran Example 1 and confirmed the cheapest "Bronze" was $1,693 for two 60-year-olds with two kids.

With no kids -- but the two 60 year olds still insured -- the premium on the cheapest "Bronze" plan dropped to $613!

Then I removed ONE kid and it dropped to $1585. So the second kid costs an extra $108 (which is believable)... but the FIRST kid added costs $972?!?!

Insuring two 60-year-olds is $613 per month, but adding two kids is another $1,080?

I also don't think they are already pricing in 2014 rates for coverage that begins within the next few weeks (you can't ask for coverage starting as far into the future as 1/1/2014).

It's busted, IMO. No way this is really how the actuaries drew it up. Is it?
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:56 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I think this calculator may be broken.

I ran Example 1 and confirmed the cheapest "Bronze" was $1,693 for two 60-year-olds with two kids.

With no kids -- but the two 60 year olds still insured -- the premium on the cheapest "Bronze" plan dropped to $613!

Then I removed ONE kid and it dropped to $1585. So the second kid costs an extra $108 (which is believable)... but the FIRST kid added costs $972?!?!

Insuring two 60-year-olds is $613 per month, but adding two kids is another $1,080?

I also don't think they are already pricing in 2014 rates for coverage that begins within the next few weeks (you can't ask for coverage starting as far into the future as 1/1/2014).

It's busted, IMO. No way this is really how the actuaries drew it up. Is it?
i looked at this humana plan- . i don't think it's an ACA plan. just current law individual coverage.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:58 PM   #64
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i looked at this humana plan- . i don't think it's an ACA plan. just current law individual coverage.
Regardless, that calculator is screwed up. I can't believe the pricing based on what I discovered above.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:18 PM   #65
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Regardless, that calculator is screwed up. I can't believe the pricing based on what I discovered above.

i actually think it was correct. when you add family coverage its a big jump then incremental for additional children.

i think you are making an assumption that its 108 for each child
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:20 PM   #66
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The Humana plans posted are designed to comply with ACA and that is why they are labeled as bronze/silver/gold/platinum. You can't actually apply for any of these plans yet. From what I was told, Humana set up test markets in a few counties in Texas, but no further details were given. The plans posted on their website could change benefits or pricing before January, but the point is that the 2014 rates are going to be significantly higher than 2013 rates for most people under age 50 that are in reasonably good health.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:24 PM   #67
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The Humana plans posted are designed to comply with ACA and that is why they are labeled as bronze/silver/gold/platinum. You can't actually apply for any of these plans yet. From what I was told, Humana set up test markets in a few counties in Texas, but no further details were given. The plans posted on their website could change benefits or pricing before January, but the point is that the 2014 rates are going to be significantly higher than 2013 rates for most people under age 50 that are in reasonably good health.

and based on ziggys experience is the pricing correct. since you sell healthplans is the first child making it familly plan the biggest price jump
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:26 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by dgoldenz
The Humana plans posted are designed to comply with ACA and that is why they are labeled as bronze/silver/gold/platinum. You can't actually apply for any of these plans yet. From what I was told, Humana set up test markets in a few counties in Texas, but no further details were given. The plans posted on their website could change benefits or pricing before January, but the point is that the 2014 rates are going to be significantly higher than 2013 rates for most people under age 50 that are in reasonably good health.
Dgoldenz, what is your thoughts on the underwritten health insurance plans that are grandfathered? Do you think they will be able to survive for a period of time? Do you think the government wants those individual market " healthy people" thrown into the exchange to help pay for the premiums for the others? I would really like mine to hold up for 7 years until I get to 55 where I wouldn't get killed so bad when/if I get forced into participating.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:27 PM   #69
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Regardless, that calculator is screwed up. I can't believe the pricing based on what I discovered above.
I've seen some "quirks" in the preview calculators like this one, National Health Care Calculator

The premium never changes for family size from 2 to 8 members. The subsidy adjusts.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:28 PM   #70
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and based on ziggys experience is the pricing correct. since you sell healthplans is the first child making it familly plan the biggest price jump
Nobody knows yet. Humana usually charges for each child individually, while other companies consider any plan with at least 2 adults plus 1 child on it to be a "family" plan and priced accordingly. It's possible that for 2014 there could be a base "family" rate with an upcharge for each additional child. We'll just have to see how it plays out. Supposedly the official plan designs and rates must be submitted to HHS no later than April 1, so it won't be too long before we find out.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:30 PM   #71
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Dgoldenz, what is your thoughts on the underwritten health insurance plans that are grandfathered? Do you think they will be able to survive for a period of time? Do you think the government wants those individual market " healthy people" thrown into the exchange to help pay for the premiums for the others? I would really like mine to hold up for 7 years until I get to 55 where I wouldn't get killed so bad when/if I get forced into participating.
Grandfathered plans will eventually hit the insurance death spiral since there are no new, healthy people to be added to the plans. I would probably give it 3-4 years before most people with a grandfathered plan end up dumping it. However, since the unhealthy people can now buy policies on the exchange, I could be wrong. Will depend on pricing of existing plans versus the new guaranteed-issue policies.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:43 PM   #72
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Insurance companies are highly regulated and the state regulators go over their books all the time, especially when annual rate increases are applied for. I don't think it will be a problem.
I wish it were true in Florida. Do we HAVE an insurance commissioner?
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:46 PM   #73
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I wish it were true in Florida. Do we HAVE an insurance commissioner?
Just because you do not like the price does noyt mean it isn't actuarially supported. If anything, homeowners, etc. prices in FL are too low.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:50 PM   #74
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Just because you do not like the price does noyt mean it isn't actuarially supported. If anything, homeowners, etc. prices in FL are too low.
Definitely agree with you on homeowners insurance being priced too low. If USAA won't write because they can't charge appropriate to the risk, something is wrong with the system.......and how our insurance commissioner is doing his/her job!
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:58 PM   #75
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Definitely agree with you on homeowners insurance being priced too low. If USAA won't write because they can't charge appropriate to the risk, something is wrong with the system.......and how our insurance commissioner is doing his/her job!
My recollection is that FL is one of the states that has an elected insurance commissioner (most are appointed by the state's governor). You have what the electorate paid for.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:02 PM   #76
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My recollection is that FL is one of the states that has an elected insurance commissioner (most are appointed by the state's governor). You have what the electorate paid for.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:13 PM   #77
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i actually think it was correct. when you add family coverage its a big jump then incremental for additional children.

i think you are making an assumption that its 108 for each child
I made no such assumption.

Did you read it all? I specifically said I priced it as follows:

60-yo couple, no kids: $613/mo.
60-yo couple, one kid: $1585/mo.
60-yo couple, 2 kids: $1693/mo.

Where is my assumption? These are directly from their web site for quotes. The first kid costs an extra $972; the second $108 above that. What exactly am I assuming? I can not believe that this is correct.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:15 PM   #78
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I made no such assumption.

Did you read it all? I specifically said I priced it as follows:

60-yo couple, no kids: $613/mo.
60-yo couple, one kid: $1585/mo.
60-yo couple, 2 kids: $1693/mo.

Where is my assumption? These are directly from their web site for quotes. The first kid costs an extra $972; the second $108 above that. What exactly am I assuming? I can not believe that this is correct.

the family jump is what makes it correct
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:17 PM   #79
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An article in today's Wall Street Journal said individual health plans could go up as much as 116% at the extreme with 40% to 50% more the norm.

Health Insurers Warn on Premiums - WSJ.com

The article talks about what the large insurance companies are telling their brokers.

If your income is too high for assistance, this could hurt.
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Isn't the WSJ part of the FOX empire? The slant is very similiar.
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As a health insurance agent, I can confirm that this is true, and would add that the estimates of increases stated are on the low side. My average client is a family with parents about 40 years old with two kids and spending an average of $300-600/month. In 2014, the cost for this family with no subsidy will likely be well over $1,000/month, which most people simply can't afford and will not pay. Just because you make $100k combined doesn't mean you're going to be able to spend $15k/year on health insurance, not including any costs that apply towards the out-of-pocket maximums.
Thanks for the confirmation on the original article dgoldenz. There for a while I was thinking the WSJ had wandered into the "No Spin Zone".
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:23 PM   #80
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the family jump is what makes it correct
Doesn't change the fact that the first kid (if these quotes are correct) effectively costs 50% more than two 60-year-olds combined.

Sure, you may say "$800 more for family coverage, and then $172 for the first kid", but when all is said and done it's effectively $972 for the first kid. This would be a MASSIVE "tax" on families with children, and I say that as someone who doesn't have any. The other thing about it is that with my Megacorp plan, "employee plus spouse" coverage is quite a bit more expensive than "employee plus dependents" coverage (which is the same whether you insure 1 kid or 10).
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