Healthcare insurance and retirement - again!

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator There are many options. Going with medicaid, stiffing the hospital, gong back to work, declaring bankruptcy, etc.

WADR, bankruptcy or not paying may be fine for some people to deal with this, but they don't apply to a community where the goal is financial independence.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator I predict, that it will not be as bad as the doom and gloom here predict... There are many options. Going with medicaid, stiffing the hospital, gong back to work, declaring bankruptcy, etc. No politician is going to sacrifice votes to make a change most people do not want. I would suspect this. Healthcare will get cheaper, not more expensive. The new administration will make sure of that. Can you imagine their fate if it got worse? Whether the cost is deferred, or paid through another means, it's hard to tell. It may be a payroll tax, made more efficient, or paid with printing money. There may be asset tests for subsidies, or not, like medicare. It's hard to tell at this point, but it will be at least a year out.

Senator, I agree completely. What's more, there is just no benefit in worrying about the results of hypothetical legislation that hasn't even been articulated, much less proposed, much less passed.

Listening to dire predictions right now of what could happen with our health care system, is a parallel to listening to Nouriel Roubini about the stock market - - huge doses of doom and gloom, doom and gloom, and it really isn't very helpful to any of us to focus on that two days after the election. I think it's much more helpful to take a deep breath and wait for some facts to emerge before trying to figure out how to deal with said facts.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Hitter $9K a year? what gender/age band?

This is the total cost divided by the number of citizens. From 2012: Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries | PBS NewsHour

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator I predict, that it will not be as bad as the doom and gloom here predict... There are many options. Going with medicaid, stiffing the hospital, gong back to work, declaring bankruptcy, etc. No politician is going to sacrifice votes to make a change most people do not want. I would suspect this. Healthcare will get cheaper, not more expensive. The new administration will make sure of that. Can you imagine their fate if it got worse? Whether the cost is deferred, or paid through another means, it's hard to tell. It may be a payroll tax, made more efficient, or paid with printing money. There may be asset tests for subsidies, or not, like medicare. It's hard to tell at this point, but it will be at least a year out.

I don't have your faith in the politicians because if they believe the negatives affect a small enough group, they won't worry about those votes. The millions affected by ACA is still a small number compared to the rest of the population and that makes us very vulnerable.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB WADR, bankruptcy or not paying may be fine for some people to deal with this, but they don't apply to a community where the goal is financial independence.

I think if the choice is a cancer treatment, or being financially independent, all bets are off.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Hitter without the 3 to 1 rule, it will get much more expensive for early retirees - remember the actual cost for a 60 year old is something like 5 to 8 times the cost of a 25 year old so I'm looking forward to a productive 2017 on the j*b....

It depends on how much the '1' costs, whether or not it will be more expensive.

If you mean policies will be put in place to encourage people to continue to work, and pay more taxes to run the country and to provide for the less fortunate, that could happen.

I predict, when looking back, the changes we have not yet seen will be a welcome relief.

[Big_Hitter]

The actual costs are more like 5 to 1 for males so the revised costs for early male retirees may only double

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator It depends on how much the '1' costs, whether or not it will be more expensive.

the "1" costs what the "1" costs; it's independent of health plans/coverage; I'm talking gross eligible charges here

going to be an interesting (and busy) year no doubt

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Listening to dire predictions right now of what could happen with our health care system, is a parallel to listening to Nouriel Roubini about the stock market - - huge doses of doom and gloom, doom and gloom, and it really isn't very helpful to any of us to focus on that two days after the election. I think it's much more helpful to take a deep breath and wait for some facts to emerge before trying to figure out how to deal with said facts.

I agree with this.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Why would they do that? To reduce sales? If they can cover their costs and make a reasonable return on required capital then they will be happy... premiums will ultimately get to that level if there is sufficient competition. Speaker Ryan's proposal would cap premiums at 5x, compared to the current 3x. IOW, age-rated premiums for the oldest could only be 5x the premiums for the youngest.

To cherry pick having only younger, healthy people on their plans like they did pre-ACA. I've been down this road before. We had a lot of delay tactics, lost paperwork, lies, unreturned calls, the form is in the mail, etc. from the insurance companies to try to keep us from using the HIPAA laws to get coverage, even really expensive coverage, just a few years back. People with pre-existing conditions, even minor ones or medically controllable ones had trouble getting coverage at any price pre-ACA and had to worry about rescission once they had it. Friends of ours gave up and went back to work, when ironically both their health issues were ones that are usually considered stress related.

Repeal the ACA without a viable replacement plan in place and that is the logical assumption for me of what I would have to deal with again. 5X our current premiums and no subsidies would put our premiums alone at $2.5K a month with a possible $12.5K out of pocket + maybe some out of network or medical travel costs and we're back to a potential $50K a year for healthcare again if we stay in the U.S. We can afford that to Medicare age but it might make more financial sense to move outside the U.S. and do something like buy a condo with that money instead and get much less expensive or free healthcare elsewhere due to dual citizenship.

[photoguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R What's more, there is just no benefit in worrying about the results of hypothetical legislation that hasn't even been articulated, much less proposed, much less passed.

I've never been a worrier and logically I agree with this especially since there's nothing really actionable right now for me. Still I've got this nagging feeling in the back of mind that I can't quite push away... I guess it's time to do a few more long hikes and get out and shoot a bit more.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoguy I've never been a worrier and logically I agree with this especially since there's nothing really actionable right now for me. Still I've got this nagging feeling in the back of mind that I can't quite push away... I guess it's time to do a few more long hikes and get out and shoot a bit more.

Exercise is great for lowing anxiety levels.

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Exercise is great for lowing anxiety levels.

so is stasis

[John Galt III]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
I predict, that it will not be as bad as the doom and gloom here predict...

There are many options. Going with medicaid, stiffing the hospital, gong back to work, declaring bankruptcy, etc.


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I have been bumping my annual income up each year to get above the $16,xxx minimum to avoid medicaid, which I would qualify for under Obamacare, since there is no asset test now.

But if they get rid of Ocare, will they also bring back the asset test for Medicaid? I'm in Pa. Then I'd be hosed. Can't find any answers to this question, even on the Pa state medicaid website, other than the fact that applying for straight Medicaid through that website does have an asset test.

[nico08]

sounds like a good idea. thank you. i thought it would be more complicated than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Hitter get catastrophic coverage - like I posted earlier, the purpose of health insurance isn't to provide inexpensive healthcare, it's to indemnify an unexpected loss

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R ...I think it's much more helpful to take a deep breath and wait for some facts to emerge before trying to figure out how to deal with said facts.

Being a fast reader, I scanned through your post and thought I read "... how to deal with sad facts".

Please excuse my irreverence, but I could not help it. It's my nature.

[bamsphd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R I think it's much more helpful to take a deep breath and wait for some facts to emerge before trying to figure out how to deal with said facts.

Alas, my open enrollment deadline for January 1, 2017 coverage is weeks away. So I don't get the luxury of waiting until actual legislation is even proposed in congress much less passed before placing my first bet.

So instead I'll hope for the best, but try to plan for the worst. Some of the posts in this thread help me plan.

[wmc1000]

Kaiser Healthnews update on ACA repeal process - it may take until 2019 to implement major changes.

Concerned About Losing Your Marketplace Plan? ACA Repeal May Take Awhile | Kaiser Health News

[MichaelB]

A snippet or summary would be very helpful to members.

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB A snippet or summary would be very helpful to members.

Looks like we discussed most of it already