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Old 08-19-2016, 07:13 AM   #61
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I'm thinking these health ministries must somehow avoid the very most expensive patients. The so called "20% who use 80% of the dollars". Not sure how it occurs, but that is the only logical explanation I can muster.
It might be self-selection, if you have ongoing expensive medical issues it stands to reason that you might be more worried about having to pay your own bills.

If you consider yourself to be healthy and think it would be a freak occurrence for you to have large claims you might be more willing to throw the dice. After all you only have to stick with this for 12 months at a time.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:35 AM   #62
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Also, they exclude pre-existing conditions which should get lower cost patients. Some of the following from Liberty Health Share's website could lead to a lower cost patient:

  • Share one another's burdens
  • Believe that our body is a temple
  • Do not use tobacco products
  • Do not drink alcohol in excess
  • Eat foods that nourish your body not harm it
  • Exercise regularly
  • Worship regularly with others
With the way Obamacare is going (higher cost, poor doctor selection), these things must be growing like crazy. I'd suspect that given another year or two, we should be seeing failures and complaints if we're going to see them. If we're not, then maybe it'll be worth taking a chance.


I'm paying $400 now for worse coverage than cost $150 a few years ago, so maybe it IS possible...
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:51 AM   #63
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Worship regularly with others
I wonder how they enforce this. Do you have to pay for your own chemotherapy if someone rats you out for missing a Sunday?
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:02 AM   #64
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I wonder how they enforce this. Do you have to pay for your own chemotherapy if someone rats you out for missing a Sunday?
The answer is you just show you have an active church membership and have a pastor or deacon verify the information.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:00 AM   #65
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The answer is you just show you have an active church membership and have a pastor or deacon verify the information.
This would lead to some pretty heavy extortion material

Just like evil insurance companies. Your well-being and finances are dependant on what somebody else thinks of you. All the money you've been paying... be damned
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:08 AM   #66
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This would lead to some pretty heavy extortion material

Just like evil insurance companies. Your well-being and finances are dependant on what somebody else thinks of you. All the money you've been paying... be damned
Honestly, I think it's just a formality and might be what they need to do to get an ACA exemption/approval on religious grounds.But it is a bit murky...it's how they can exclude covering certain procedures on religious grounds.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:06 AM   #67
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Also, they exclude pre-existing conditions which should get lower cost patients. Some of the following from Liberty Health Share's website could lead to a lower cost patient:

  • Share one another's burdens
  • Believe that our body is a temple
  • Do not use tobacco products
  • Do not drink alcohol in excess
  • Eat foods that nourish your body not harm it
  • Exercise regularly
  • Worship regularly with others
With the way Obamacare is going (higher cost, poor doctor selection), these things must be growing like crazy. I'd suspect that given another year or two, we should be seeing failures and complaints if we're going to see them. If we're not, then maybe it'll be worth taking a chance.


I'm paying $400 now for worse coverage than cost $150 a few years ago, so maybe it IS possible...
I'm assuming that pre-existing conditions are self reported on the application... but I wonder if they ever verify what is reported. They probably do get much better selection than taking all comers by excluding smokers, heavy drinkers, etc.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:08 AM   #68
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The answer is you just show you have an active church membership and have a pastor or deacon verify the information.
For LibertyShare my kids had to sign an agreement to abide to the conditions. Also, had to send in a medical history. Did not need a letter from the pastor. Your word is your bond kind of thing.

I think LibertyShare may be the least restrictive and best at eventually covering pre-existing conditions (fully after 3-years). As a result, I suspect they have a larger membership base.

ACA won't fail, they'll just keep raising your taxes into oblivion to pay for it.

We'll see if the health sharing plans survive better. If not maybe you can sue the Gov't. They are the ones who gave them an exception in the law. Too bad they didn't read the thing before passing it.

cd :O)
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:15 AM   #69
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This would lead to some pretty heavy extortion material

Just like evil insurance companies. Your well-being and finances are dependent on what somebody else thinks of you. All the money you've been paying... be damned
I agree, you could be at risk for not being religious enough, whatever that really means.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:15 AM   #70
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ACA won't fail, they'll just keep raising your taxes into oblivion to pay for it
Hey man gotta pay them market rates.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:17 AM   #71
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........ If not maybe you can sue the Gov't. They are the ones who gave them an exception in the law. Too bad they didn't read the thing before passing it.
This isn't true, but don't let that stop you from trying to politicize it.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:25 AM   #72
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Oh no now we are talking religion and politics, I hear the clock ticking on this thread.

I think I've learned what I wanted to from it, no known failures, but not a guarantee of payment.

I'll tell my friends, enter at your own risk and be sure you know what isn't covered before you send in your money.Also know your discomfort level, if you get a bill for 250K for a medical emergency are you okay with waiting a long time to see if they are going to help you and how much they are going to pay.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:31 AM   #73
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...ACA won't fail, they'll just keep raising your taxes into oblivion to pay for it. ...
While you are entitled to your opinion, any increase in taxes is unlikely as the electorate and politicians doesn't have much stomach for it. Hasn't happened so far since ACA was enacted and nothing is currently proposed in Congress.
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Old 08-19-2016, 12:25 PM   #74
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This isn't true, but don't let that stop you from trying to politicize it.
Sorry, for being a bit snarky if it seemed that way. Of course others have been throughout the thread. However, which part are you not saying is true? The ACA does in fact have a specific exemption for the Sharing organizations that existed prior to some year, I forget what the year was, something like 1996.

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While you are entitled to your opinion, any increase in taxes is unlikely as the electorate and politicians doesn't have much stomach for it. Hasn't happened so far since ACA was enacted and nothing is currently proposed in Congress.
And the 3% tax that my employer pays and thankfully doesn't at this point pass on to me is in fact a new tax because of the ACA. And besides that, for those that didn't carry healthy insurance before and self-insured, are in fact now required to carry health insurance or are penalized. So call it what you want, but it is a Defacto Tax.

Going forward, I will try to keep politics out-of-it. Since these are basically faith based operations, I realize it is hard to keep religion out of out.

And please remember, I carry both. Two kids are on one of these plans, and the rest of the family are on a regular medical plan. I did the math, weighed the risks, and did what I believe made sense.
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:27 PM   #75
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..........Going forward, I will try to keep politics out-of-it. .......
Good plan. I can already smell pig's breath.
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:39 PM   #76
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The answer is you just show you have an active church membership and have a pastor or deacon verify the information.
It's been awhile but when I last looked only Samaritan required that your pastor sign your application confirming that your a church member and regular attendee. Is that now a requirement for any of the other ministries?
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:14 PM   #77
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It's been awhile but when I last looked only Samaritan required that your pastor sign your application confirming that your a church member and regular attendee. Is that now a requirement for any of the other ministries?
You'd need to research each one of them yourself, the people I talked to needed to have someone verify on the plans they were looking at.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:21 AM   #78
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,,,ACA won't fail, they'll just keep raising your taxes into oblivion to pay for it. ...
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While you are entitled to your opinion, any increase in taxes is unlikely as the electorate and politicians doesn't have much stomach for it. Hasn't happened so far since ACA was enacted and nothing is currently proposed in Congress.
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....And the 3% tax that my employer pays and thankfully doesn't at this point pass on to me is in fact a new tax because of the ACA. And besides that, for those that didn't carry healthy insurance before and self-insured, are in fact now required to carry health insurance or are penalized. So call it what you want, but it is a Defacto Tax. ...
But in your earlier post you referred to future tax increases... "they'll just keep raising your taxes"... and while there were tax increases in 2013, those are water over the dam and there are no additional tax increases proposed that I am aware of.

Besides, what 3% tax that your employer pays are you referring to? No such thing that I can find.

While technically the penalty is a tax, why should society pay for people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their health care and free-load off the rest of us? I realize there are a small minority of uber-rich who can afford to self-insure, a friend of a friend is in that situation and really objects to the penalty, but they are a very small minority.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:37 AM   #79
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But in your earlier post you referred to future tax increases... "they'll just keep raising your taxes"... and while there were tax increases in 2013, those are water over the dam and there are no additional tax increases proposed that I am aware of.

Besides, what 3% tax that your employer pays are you referring to? No such thing that I can find.

While technically the penalty is a tax, why should society pay for people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their health care and free-load off the rest of us? I realize there are a small minority of uber-rich who can afford to self-insure, a friend of a friend is in that situation and really objects to the penalty, but they are a very small minority.
That's a slippery slope, society pays for a lot of things that people refuse to take personal responsibility for such as food, children, housing and on and on. Why should health insurance be singled out for a penalty when nothing else has a penalty attached.
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:19 AM   #80
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That's a slippery slope, society pays for a lot of things that people refuse to take personal responsibility for such as food, children, housing and on and on. Why should health insurance be singled out for a penalty when nothing else has a penalty attached.
Forcing everyone in to the risk pool was the only way to provide coverage without regard to pre-existing conditions, as well as a way to drive down the average risk. Otherwise, people would buy health insurance only when they needed it - gaming the system. Those paying the small penalty are still gaming the system because they know that if they if they need care, they will get it, and for free if they have no money.
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