heart disease reversal

[Nords]

It would be torture for me if I didn't have evidence I was reducing the deadly plaque with my actions.
The additional radiation is troublesome but I would want to get the test as soon as possible so I had a baseline of the artery walls as close as possible to the time of the heart attack.

Many believe that technologic advances will overcome many of these imperfections but at an exposure comparable to perhaps 20 chest x-rays every time, the risks are there, too.

To add to Rich's comments, the only direct evidence would be a post-mortem. You could spend big bucks on a boutique spa physical, but would those guys have any credibility?

Speaking from the perspective of 311 mrem of lifetime documented exposure to ionizing radiation, I thought I knew all about radiation and its hazards. I knew that most of the physiology was based on Hiroshima & Nagasaki as well as various American accidents over the years, but i was still very taken aback in the 1990s when the radiation medical experts said "Uh, this is all about three times more dangerous than we previously believed."

The rules of the game can change without warning. You don't want to absorb the rads just to see if you can find some plaque.

 

[Buckeye]

To add to Rich's comments, the only direct evidence would be a post-mortem. You could spend big bucks on a boutique spa physical, but would those guys have any credibility?

Speaking from the perspective of 311 mrem of lifetime documented exposure to ionizing radiation, I thought I knew all about radiation and its hazards. I knew that most of the physiology was based on Hiroshima & Nagasaki as well as various American accidents over the years, but i was still very taken aback in the 1990s when the radiation medical experts said "Uh, this is all about three times more dangerous than we previously believed."

The rules of the game can change without warning. You don't want to absorb the rads just to see if you can find some plaque.

If I had windsurf's history, I would accept the radiation risk to "see" what was going on inside. I agree it might not be considered the appropriate choice for everyone but with his history I would have to take a peek.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

If I had windsurf's history, I would accept the radiation risk to "see" what was going on inside. I agree it might not be considered the appropriate choice for everyone but with his history I would have to take a peek.

I'll let this be after one last comment to be sure you (and other interested folks) understand the role of these tests in this setting: Windsurf just had coronary catheterization which is the gold standard for the presence and severity of coronary disease. It detects narrowing, plaque, and prognosis as well as or better than any currently available test. To subject yourself to any additional imaging study now is of no prognostic, diagnostic, or therapeutic benefit acutely.

For surveillance down the road (say a couple to 5 years), CT imaging might prove better than stress testing in some ways, and could avoid a repeat cath (though this question is unstudied).

I do think this is an area where noninvasive options will be forthcoming in the next couple of years, perhaps in the form of improvements of the coronary CT techniques. .

 

[windsurf]

If I had windsurf's history, I would accept the radiation risk to "see" what was going on inside. I agree it might not be considered the appropriate choice for everyone but with his history I would have to take a peek.

Buckeye, your point is well-taken as to the unaware, but my case is different. I know my status b/c of my "event" and the consequent angiography which showed several areas of stenosis (three vessel disease) I'm not sure sure you read both posts about what happened. I had a CABG x6 and the diagnosis on my ER report is, "Sudden cardiac death with spontaneous return of circulation." Per your suggestion, I would be very interested in taking a "peek inside" in about 5 years to see if the vein grafts are patent in consideration of statin therapy and a plant-based diet. actually, that is why I started this second thread. to see if anyone on the list has undertaken a cardiac disease reversal strategy? The research indicates it can be done.

 

[Buckeye]

Buckeye, your point is well-taken as to the unaware, but my case is different. I know my status b/c of my "event" and the consequent angiography which showed several areas of stenosis (three vessel disease) I'm not sure sure you read both posts about what happened. I had a CABG x6 and the diagnosis on my ER report is, "Sudden cardiac death with spontaneous return of circulation." Per your suggestion, I would be very interested in taking a "peek inside" in about 5 years to see if the vein grafts are patent in consideration of statin therapy and a plant-based diet. actually, that is why I started this second thread. to see if anyone on the list has undertaken a cardiac disease reversal strategy? The research indicates it can be done.

That's right. I forgot about all the new plumbing! I probably wouldn't wait 5 years but a "peek" right now wouldn't provide any new information.

 

[simple girl]

We haven't tried to reverse cardiac disease, but we did try a diet by Dr. Gabe Mirkin to lower cholesterol. It is essentially vegetarian, whole grain, no fat. We lost a lot of weight but just couldn't stick with it. Just too strict.

He has a website with a forum, so I bet you could find some people there who have tried doing what you are doing.

 

[Buckeye]

windsurf - Did you have treated or untreated sleep apnea?

 

[windsurf]

windsurf - Did you have treated or untreated sleep apnea?

no.

 

[windsurf]

Update: My last 2 lipid results were total cholesterol 112, ldl 53, hdl 45, triglycerides 68, and fasting glucose 85 and then total 121, triglycerides 92, ldl 48, hdl 53 and glucose 102. These were about one month apart. My weight has been steady at 175 (I am a fraction under 6 feet), though I would like to lose another 5 pounds which, I think, would give me the 34 inch waist I need to get into some jeans that have been hanging in the closet for a long time.

I'm now a bit over 5 months past being brought back from "sudden cardiac death." I am back to playing tennis, spinning class twice a week, yoga twice a week and lifitng weights 2 or 3 times a week. I have added intervals of running to my walking routine. When people hear about my all plant diet, they ask, "Aren't you weaker?" Not at all. I can crank the weights pretty good for a geezer- e.g. reps for curls with 50 lb. dumbbells -though that is getting hard on the wrist tendons so I've backed the weight off 5 lbs. for my routine.

 

[ls99]

Glad you are doing well. I re-read the thread from the beginning to end lots of good info here.

I must say that for me even being retired, your total exercise routine would sure stress me out.

 

[FinanceDude]

Liek Rich said, get skinny, THEN get SKINNIER..........

Great job on the lifestyle change......... I used to have a 32 inch waist back in the day, and I am 6 feet two inches tall. I am trying to get down to 215, but I probably should be at 180 or so..........

 

[TromboneAl]

e.g. reps for curls with 50 lb. dumbbells -though that is getting hard on the wrist tendons so I've backed the weight off 5 lbs. for my routine.

How many reps? 50 lb dumbbells are heavy! I only use 30 lbs for curls and do 11 reps. I use 45 lbs for dumbbell squats and bench presses, and I'm always a little scared of straining something when I pull them off the floor.

 

[LOL!]

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the top.

Have you read any of the works of Dr. K. Lance Gould? I'm not sure what is current standing is among cardiologists and whether they like his work or not, but he has a book on reversal of heart disease. Years ago, he did one of his PET scans on my heart at the recommendation of my internist.

As for the various diets, let me make an analogy to aquarium plant growth. One can set up an aquarium full of plants and fertilize it with nitrate, phosphorus and carbon dioxide. The plants will grow robustly as long as they are not limited by some nutrient or more importantly, some trace element. It turns out that higher level plants will fail to use all the nitrate available because some other trace element or vitamin is missing. So what happens is that algae grows. For many of the optimal plant aquariums it is a constant battle to keep all the required nutrients balanced so that the higher level plants use all the nitrate, phosphates, etc and leave none for the low level algae to grow.

So my hypothesis with all the various diets is that in a non-balanced diet such as all protein or all carbo or all fat or all chocolate, that some vitamin or nutrient is missing and that limits the actual metabolism of your body to use all those calories. That's why I think one can lose weight on some of these strange diets. You can consume large quantities but without the means to digest and adsorb them, they basically go right through you. That doesn't mean these diets are healthy though.

 

[windsurf]

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the top.
Have you read any of the works of Dr. K. Lance Gould?

I have not, but I'll try to check it out.


That's why I think one can lose weight on some of these strange diets. You can consume large quantities but without the means to digest and adsorb them, they basically go right through you. That doesn't mean these diets are healthy though.

I don't consider the dietary thrust i am taking as "strange" (and I don't mean to assume that you are characterizing it that way) in that it is made up of nothing but whole foods. In my mind, "strange" is a diet that includes lots of products that come out of factories -including factory farms. Energy bars, jelly doughnuts, and jalopeno poppers are what I now consider strange. I believe that greens, beans, fruit, and sprouted whole grains do provide absorbable nutrients. I am aware of phytates and oxylates, but I'm not sure those are what what you meant. The "unhealthy" downside of the approach I am now taking is deficiency of B12 which is easily covered with a supplement.

 

[HFWR]

How many reps? 50 lb dumbbells are heavy! I only use 30 lbs for curls and do 11 reps. I use 45 lbs for dumbbell squats and bench presses, and I'm always a little scared of straining something when I pull them off the floor.

I don't specifically work the biceps or triceps. Makes my elbow joints hurt. I agree, fifty pound dumbells would be a bit much for me.

My routine is usually two sets of chest flies, back flies, pulldowns, chest presses, shoulder presses, seated rows, abs and lower back, and seated leg presses.

My arms are pretty tired (and pumped) after all that.

I do this routine two days/wk. I walk or bike the other days.

I note that I don't recover as fast as I used to...

 

[samclem]

The plants will grow robustly as long as they are not limited by some nutrient or more importantly, some trace element. It turns out that higher level plants will fail to use all the nitrate available because some other trace element or vitamin is missing. So what happens is that algae grows.

I guess plants and animals have a parallel, then. Many of the "essential vitamins and minerals" are needed by humans only because we've developed some quirky metabolic pathway that now requires a particular thing, or we've lost the ability to synthesize one of these "essential nutrients" during our evolution. Humans require many more specialized types of these of these specialized chemicals than most other animals, and even most other mammals. Heck, the ascorbic acid is called "vitamin C" only because humans lost the ability to synthesize it from D-glycuronic acid sometime along the evolutionary trail. Most other mammals (except for some primates, guinea pigs, and some fruit bats) can make their own. In general, more highly developed animals have more specialized requirements for trace chemicals.

acisvitamins and trace elements We've got many more things that we required things

 

[windsurf]

How many reps? 50 lb dumbbells are heavy! I only use 30 lbs for curls and do 11 reps. I use 45 lbs for dumbbell squats and bench presses, and I'm always a little scared of straining something when I pull them off the floor.

I would usually do 6 reps for the set with 50's. Strict, too -no rocking for the cheat. I realize this sounds a bit like bragging, but I take it as the license granted to those over 60 (who survived heart stoppage) who still work out amidst the "utes." Then again, some of the power lifters out there are probably laughing at anyone who touts 50 lb. db curls.

 

[windsurf]

Here is a year-end update of my efforts to deal with heart disease and a x6 bypass. I do yoga 2 or 3 times per week, weights the same, a spinning class for serious athletes twice a week, tennis 2 or 3 times per week, and 20 minutes of running on the treadmill- not for fitness per se but as a measurement toward my intention of doing an hour on the trails with my pooch in the spring. The no-oil vegan diet is working well for me. My wife and I have more variety than ever in our meals. I eat mass quantities a day and have stabilized at my high school weight.

 

[Buckeye]

The no-oil vegan diet is working well for me. My wife and I have more variety than ever in our meals. I eat mass quantities a day and have stabilized at my high school weight.

It might be in the thread somewhere, but are you supplementing for omegas?

 

[windsurf]

Yes! While my diet is otherwise plant food, I do take Life Extension Omega 3 supplements which are fish oil plus other plant constituents. There is much evidence that maintaining a positive omega 3 balance is important.

 

[Moemg]

Here is a year-end update of my efforts to deal with heart disease and a x6 bypass. I do yoga 2 or 3 times per week, weights the same, a spinning class for serious athletes twice a week, tennis 2 or 3 times per week, and 20 minutes of running on the treadmill- not for fitness per se but as a measurement toward my intention of doing an hour on the trails with my pooch in the spring. The no-oil vegan diet is working well for me. My wife and I have more variety than ever in our meals. I eat mass quantities a day and have stabilized at my high school weight.

Just curious , were you doing yoga before your surgery ? I have been thinking of adding it to my gym work . I do not have heart disease ( just passed a stress test ) but I do have asthma that has become troublesome and I"m thinking adding yoga may help me . What benefits do you see from yoga ?

 

[windsurf]

Just curious , were you doing yoga before your surgery ? I have been thinking of adding it to my gym work . I do not have heart disease ( just passed a stress test ) but I do have asthma that has become troublesome and I"m thinking adding yoga may help me . What benefits do you see from yoga ?

Yes, I have done some yoga off and on for quite some time -almost always part of a group class. The quality and approach of the teacher is important to me. I see it as one corner of the fitness triangle -the other corners are aerobic and resistance training. Yoga is restorative and obviously promotes flexibility. But core strength, balance and posture are key as well. Of course, it can be meditative depending on the approach of the teacher.

 

[TromboneAl]

I would usually do 6 reps for the set with 50's.

That is remarkable. I tried today, and could not do a single curl with 45 pound dumbbells. And that's after two years of twice a week weight lifting workouts.

 

[Bikerchick]

Yes! While my diet is otherwise plant food, I do take Life Extension Omega 3 supplements which are fish oil plus other plant constituents. There is much evidence that maintaining a positive omega 3 balance is important.

It sounds like you went with an Ornish-type plan? A friend in Florida started it 4 years ago, off and on, and is no longer taking her beta-blocker. It was her cardio doc who told her about Ornish.

 

[windsurf]

Al, the curls are a by-product of always doing that lift with dumbbells since I was a much younger guy. There are other moves that I am not so good at -like bench presses.
Bikerchick (cool name!) It's very similar to Ornish's approach, but in my case, stricter -It's Caldwell Esselstyn's approach as I pointed out much earlier in this thread. http://www.heartattackproof.com/