Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-05-2012, 10:29 PM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
I really like his Point #5: "Eat good food and don't worry about the numbers".
With all due respect I would disagree. I think eating "good food" is a sensible, and certainly a way to enhance one's health, but it is not (unfortunately) always a sufficient way to reduce one's risk of coronary heart disease. The numbers matter.
__________________

__________________
ProGolferWannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-05-2012, 10:43 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
As usual, everyone is very certain of his/her position. But since the differing positions are in conflict, there must be some problem.

Complexity gets my vote for the culprit.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2012, 10:56 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Katsmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,400
I tend to agree with ProGolferWannabe

I have found over the past 10 to 15 years that I am a person whose cholesterol related numbers didn't change much with diet and had a dramatic improvement with a low (10 mg) dose of Lipitor.

I recently spent 6 months eating lowish carb - overall carbs were typically between 60 to 100 mg a day - net carbs usually between about 40 and 60. I found that some numbers improved with that regime and others were worse.

Numbers last summer before starting low carb after several months of not taking Lipitor (this was experiment to see if it was still needed after I had lost about 40 pounds):

Total Cholesterol - 182
HDL - 45
Triglycerides - 128
LDL - 111
Ratio 0 4.0

Also fasting glucose - 98

Coincidentally I started eating low carb about a month after this and was retested 6 months later (no Lipitor in the meantime)

Total Cholesterol - 205 (Higher)
HDL - 46 (very little change)
Triglycerides - 90 (lower)
LDL - 141 (higher)
Ratio - 4.5 (higher)

Also fasting glucose - 82


My physician did interpret the cholesterol numbers quite negatively and put me back on 10 mg Lipitor. I'm not quite as negative as he is. The increase in total cholesterol doesn't bother me and I like the decrease in triglycerides. I realize the increase in LDL might or might not be worrisome depending on what kind of LDL is being talked about. That said, I don't know if it is an increase in the large, fluffy kind or not.

I did like the decrease in glucose to 82. I have test results from several years ago that were in the high 90s and one of 103 about 10 years ago. I do credit the lower carb eating with this number lowering.

All of that said, I took lipitor for over 10 years and in the past found it had a dramatic effect on my cholesterol numbers ) for example from about 10 years ago: 155 total, 43 HDL, 88 LDL, 3.6 ratio after taking Lipitor compared to about 256 total, LDL 174, 195 triglycerides before Lipitor)

So my plan is to continue to eat as I've been eating (I aim for net carbs below 80) but also take 10 mg of Lipitor daily.
__________________
Katsmeow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2012, 11:42 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Major Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 3,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProGolferWannabe View Post
With all due respect I would disagree. I think eating "good food" is a sensible, and certainly a way to enhance one's health, but it is not (unfortunately) always a sufficient way to reduce one's risk of coronary heart disease. The numbers matter.
Well, I wasn't promoting it as the one "correct" answer, I just said that I really liked it.

So I agree with you, and I also agree with ha as to the complexity of the subject.
__________________
ER, for all intents and purposes. Part-time income <5% of annual expenditure.
Major Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 12:51 AM   #25
Full time employment: Posting here.
Moscyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 728
Thank you indeed, everyone. I'm going to print out and re-read all the replies and links. I realise I have so little knowledge of what impacts cholesterol level. One think I have is an open mind and I think that will help a lot as I read all these contributions. I didn't know the impact of carbohydrates on cholesterol levels. Sadly, I love carbohydrates - mainly pasta and white rice. There's so much to read up and then decide what further changes I should make to my diet and lifestyle. Thanks, everyone.
__________________
Moscyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 04:31 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
obgyn65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwestern city
Posts: 4,061
You may find the AAFP practice guidelines helpful:
Improving Your Cholesterol with Diet and Exercise - May 1, 2010 - American Family Physician

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moscyn View Post
Any advice for food variety and things i can try to lower cholesterol would be much appreciated. Thanks
__________________
Very conservative with investments. Not ER'd yet, 48 years old. Please do not take anything I write or imply as legal, financial or medical advice directed to you. Contact your own financial advisor, healthcare provider, or attorney for financial, medical and legal advice.
obgyn65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 08:03 AM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsmeow View Post
I tend to agree with ProGolferWannabe

I have found over the past 10 to 15 years that I am a person whose cholesterol related numbers didn't change much with diet and had a dramatic improvement with a low (10 mg) dose of Lipitor.

I recently spent 6 months eating lowish carb - overall carbs were typically between 60 to 100 mg a day - net carbs usually between about 40 and 60. I found that some numbers improved with that regime and others were worse.

Numbers last summer before starting low carb after several months of not taking Lipitor (this was experiment to see if it was still needed after I had lost about 40 pounds):

Total Cholesterol - 182
HDL - 45
Triglycerides - 128
LDL - 111
Ratio 0 4.0

Also fasting glucose - 98

Coincidentally I started eating low carb about a month after this and was retested 6 months later (no Lipitor in the meantime)

Total Cholesterol - 205 (Higher)
HDL - 46 (very little change)
Triglycerides - 90 (lower)
LDL - 141 (higher)
Ratio - 4.5 (higher)

Also fasting glucose - 82


My physician did interpret the cholesterol numbers quite negatively and put me back on 10 mg Lipitor. I'm not quite as negative as he is. The increase in total cholesterol doesn't bother me and I like the decrease in triglycerides. I realize the increase in LDL might or might not be worrisome depending on what kind of LDL is being talked about. That said, I don't know if it is an increase in the large, fluffy kind or not.

I did like the decrease in glucose to 82. I have test results from several years ago that were in the high 90s and one of 103 about 10 years ago. I do credit the lower carb eating with this number lowering.

All of that said, I took lipitor for over 10 years and in the past found it had a dramatic effect on my cholesterol numbers ) for example from about 10 years ago: 155 total, 43 HDL, 88 LDL, 3.6 ratio after taking Lipitor compared to about 256 total, LDL 174, 195 triglycerides before Lipitor)

So my plan is to continue to eat as I've been eating (I aim for net carbs below 80) but also take 10 mg of Lipitor daily.
I'm really surprised you are taking Lipitor with a total cholesterol of 205 and the other good numbers with no other risk factors. You found what caused your cholesterol to be high which was the weight and the carbs. Your doc is really aggressive about pushing the meds. I would be finding myself a new doc.
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 08:41 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
I'm really surprised you are taking Lipitor with a total cholesterol of 205 and the other good numbers with no other risk factors. You found what caused your cholesterol to be high which was the weight and the carbs. Your doc is really aggressive about pushing the meds. I would be finding myself a new doc.
I absolutely agree. The only thing that doesn't appear to be very good is the HDL, and statins won't raise that, so why bother?
Unless you have cardiac disease risk factors, I recommend looking into this to determine if you can quit the statin.
__________________
Pas de lieu Rhône que nous.
braumeister is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 08:54 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
I absolutely agree. The only thing that doesn't appear to be very good is the HDL, and statins won't raise that, so why bother?
Unless you have cardiac disease risk factors, I recommend looking into this to determine if you can quit the statin.
Katsmeow will have to make the decision alone and against doctor's orders because the doc has made his preference known. Not many people will buck their doc but I think if Katsmeow does some reading, it will be clear that a statin is not indicated in this situation (based on the info provided).
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 09:25 AM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
I'm really surprised you are taking Lipitor with a total cholesterol of 205 and the other good numbers with no other risk factors. You found what caused your cholesterol to be high which was the weight and the carbs. Your doc is really aggressive about pushing the meds. I would be finding myself a new doc.
A few thoughts. We obviously do not know the individual's complete medical history and health status, and even if I did, I am not competently trained to make an assessment about what medication this individual should or should not be on. Obviously, this is why we go to a physician--to put ourselves in the hands of experts who are presumably more knoweldgeable than we are, and to help us make informed decisions. Having said that, we all should take some ownership of our healthcare, and try to understand what treatment options are available. If what we hear from our physicians is different that what we understand from our own research, we should ask teh Doctor why their recommended treatment is different from what we thought was "standard".

In this case, from the Mayo Clinic's website, "If you have high cholesterol, meaning your total cholesterol level is 240 milligrams per deciliter, or mg/dL, (6.22 millimoles per liter, or mmol/L) or higher, or your "bad" cholesterol (LDL) level is 130 mg/dL (3.68 mmol/L) or higher, your doctor may recommend you begin to take a statin. But the numbers alone won't tell you or your doctor the whole story."

The poster's LDL was, I believe 141. Being on statin should not be "surprising". In conjunction with the general guidelines above, and the fact that the OP is under a MD's care, the perscribing of a statin seems very reasonable to me. It may not be the only option, and it may not be every MD's recommended solution, but it certainly passes the "sniff" test.
__________________
ProGolferWannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 10:23 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProGolferWannabe View Post
It may not be the only option, and it may not be every MD's recommended solution, but it certainly passes the "sniff" test.
This doc's approach to health (aggressive intervention with pharmaceuticals, IMHO) wouldn't work for me but it may be right on target for Katsmeow.
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 10:45 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,631
In my (limited) experience, every doctor I know focuses like a laser on one number only: LDL. Everything else is treated as unnecessary complication. They have limited time, and considering just this number saves them a lot of it.

As has been pointed out, the whole issue is quite complicated, but if you're willing to do a lot of research, I believe any intelligent person can make a fully informed decision that will be in his or her own best interest.
__________________
Pas de lieu Rhône que nous.
braumeister is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 11:42 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
In my (limited) experience, every doctor I know focuses like a laser on one number only: LDL.
I have been very lucky to find a local physician who looks at the whole picture. He took a different turn a few years ago when he was seeing his efforts becoming focused on the right pharmaceutical to prescribe and his patients just dying a little bit slower, not attaining health. He took a step back and started looking at the foundations of health. He is much more concerned with diet (especially carbs and protein intake) and blood sugar levels than cholesterol levels.
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 11:53 AM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,201
I wonder if younger doctors, with more recent training, have a more informed view of things like this.

In any case, if you rely on your doctor alone, it is a bit of a crap shoot, because two docs can have totally opposing views, and the advice you get will depend on which one you happen to choose.

Although the same can be said of Internet research (two different web sites can have totally opposing views), at least you can read many different viewpoints. But us humans tend to decide on one point of view, and then interpret everything in such a way to support that view.

It's a mess.
__________________
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 12:36 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
My doctor was trying to prescribe me Lipitor last year, even though all my readings were fine. I asked him why and he said there is not much protection for males in late 40's to 50's range where the "widow maker" occurs. He is in his late 50's and has been on it himself he said for over 10 years even though his levels were fine, too. I have resisted so far. I have changed my eating habits somewhat, but still more mainstream diet. I will test myself again shortly as it has been over a year.
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
My doctor was trying to prescribe me Lipitor last year, even though all my readings were fine. I asked him why and he said there is not much protection for males in late 40's to 50's range where the "widow maker" occurs.
I can't quite understand what his meaning was. From my reading, the only protection offered by statins is for younger and middle aged men-exactly the group you are saying there is not much protection for.

Supposedly, little if any change in all cause mortality is found for women of any age, or for men over 65. (Elderly men!)

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 01:17 PM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
I can't quite understand what his meaning was. From my reading, the only protection offered by statins is for younger and middle aged men-exactly the group you are saying there is not much protection for.

Supposedly, little if any change in all cause mortality is found for women of any age, or for men over 65. (Elderly men!)

Ha
My wording was probably not complete. He definitely saw need for it for its intended purpose for everyone and of all ages, but I think he was trying to say that it should be used more than for its direct purpose of high cholesterial. He is a true believer in Lipitor. The possibility that it could prevent a " widow maker" was sufficient enough reason to take it in his mind. It might prevent the "out of the blue" heart attacks that happen to people in this age group. I think he was specifically mentioning this age group because we were both in it.
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 01:54 PM   #38
Recycles dryer sheets
Bluemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Katy
Posts: 97
In my family most of us have elevated cholesterol but there is no record of any heart disease. I have been keeping a record of my levels since 1987 (when I was 49) through now. I have used various statins over the years and was put on Lipitor in 2004. The changes since being put on Lipitor are very evident.

July 2004 (before Lipitor)
Cholesterol - 290
HDL - 38
LDL - 186
Tryglicerides - 331

November 2011 (w/Lipitor)
Cholesterol - 195
HDL - 43
LDL - 121
Tryglicerides - 161

I am pretty sedentary although I recently started walking 3-4 times a week. I am not on a strict diet but I try not to eat red meat more than twice a week. I have taken Omega 3 for many years.
__________________
"I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Woody Allen
Bluemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 02:10 PM   #39
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
...The fact her memory was starting to noticeably fail her and she was getting confused where she had never had that problem helped convince her the "cure" was much worse than the "problem." Things improved after she stopped taking the statin and I advised her to stop getting her cholesterol tested since why ask the question....
Is memory loss a side effect of statins?
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 02:17 PM   #40
Recycles dryer sheets
Bluemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Katy
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
Is memory loss a side effect of statins?
I don't remember!
__________________

__________________
"I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Woody Allen
Bluemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Canine Confrontation - an age old problem Seeking Hobbes Other topics 28 01-06-2012 08:48 PM
Problem with ipad2 and bluetooth headset Nova Other topics 3 01-05-2012 07:02 PM
Problem adding an attachment in email veremchuka Other topics 8 12-10-2011 11:32 AM
Cholesterol -- Oatmeal chinaco Health and Early Retirement 33 07-29-2011 10:12 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.