High-Intensity-Intervals and Muscle Pulls

[eytonxav]

Who says there isn't a cardio aspect to weight lifting. To go one step further, my gym has a sled to push, stack 295 lbs on that and try to sprint with it, talk about getting your heart rate up.

 

[Ronstar]

Who says there isn't a cardio aspect to weight lifting. To go one step further, my gym has a sled to push, stack 295 lbs on that and try to sprint with it, talk about getting your heart rate up.

I totally agree. I noticed something similar at home - pushing a full wheelbarrow up a hill - felt like my heart was going to leap out of my chest.

 

[TromboneAl]

Maybe I should walk between sprints for a longer period of time and then maybe sprint faster.

Right. I really take it easy between sprints--try to keep it fun.

I guess it's a function of my age that I can't get the heartrate much over 140.

It's now been two weeks since the groin pull, and all seems okay, so this afternoon I'll run and try some less-intense intervals.

 

[Ronstar]

....I guess it's a function of my age that I can't get the heartrate much over 140...

Or the fact that your heart is in great shape.

 

[gmshedd]

TromboneAl: Re your ~140 max HR, What HRM are you using? I compared a wrist unit (Microsoft Band) to a chest strap (Garmin) and they weren't even close at higher rates. The wrist unit lagged by at least 20 bpm. NB: The lowest common denominator approach to estimating maximum HR is 220 minus age, which would make you ~80.

As for a low maximum heart rate being a function of excellent CV fitness, that applies at ages below 30 (e.g., for world class marathon runners), but above 50, maximum HR is positively correlated with CV fitness. Low minimum HR, on the other hand, IS usually associated with CV fitness, independent of age. (As someone is sure to add, there are medical conditions that cause low minimums as well, and death causes the lowest minimum of all.

For those thinking that a 20 second 100 seems slow after seeing Bolt, et. al. break 10 seconds, the USATF requires a time under 16 seconds for a 79-year-old man to achieve All American status. Seems like asking for a serious injury.

 

[nash031]

Sprints on Monday, barefoot on grass. 6 strides, then 6x50 full out.

Today HIIT: 5 rounds: 25 20lb wall ball shots to 10ft, 20 hanging knees to elbows. 0 muscle pulls. HR well into the 160s.

 

[LOL!]

I think folks are well aware not to compare their max heart rates to those of others.

But once you figure out your max heart rate, then you can use that information for your own workouts.

I don't think your max heart rate will change very much because of becoming more fit, but it will lower with age. The pace of lowering with age can be delayed by fitness.

You should be able to have a lower HR for a given level of exercise intensity though. That means as you become more fit, it should take a higher level of intensity to get your heart rate to its max and it should recover more quickly if you stop and rest. Perhaps this is stating the obvious.

 

[razztazz]

I think folks are well aware not to compare their max heart rates to those of others.

But once you figure out your max heart rate, then you can use that information for your own workouts.

May I ask what formula you use to find your MAX heart rate?

I can get mine into the 170s but I sure don't g/d exercise with it that high. Although I only started working out more prudently less than 2 years ago. I am 59.

I frequently ask myself:

A) What great shape must I be in to have worked out at that insane level and never had "the big one" all those years? And, alternately:

B) I wonder how much damage I did to myself working out at that insane level all those years?

 

[LOL!]

You can search online for HR formulas, but the reality is that an exercise test is really needed to determine your max HR. And if you ever did a treadmill stress test for something else that might not have reached your max heart rate because the rule-of-thumb formula is good enough for the technician to stop the test early.

A) A HR in the 170s is not an insane level for many people, but would be for some people.

B) You cannot damage your heart by having it beat at your max heart rate during stressful exercise, so no need to wonder about that. Your heart gets damaged if it lacks blood flow because of blocked arteries.

Some people will use formula and say "My max heart rate is 170, but then I did a stress test and my heart rate went to 180." Clearly, the max heart rate is at least 180 since a heart will not beat at a rate higher than its max heart rate ... by definition.

 

[razztazz]

B) You cannot damage your heart by having it beat at your max heart rate during stressful exercise, so no need to wonder about that. Your heart gets damaged if it lacks blood flow because of blocked arteries.

Not correct. There is other data on these boards somewhere concerning this. You can overdo it. And it's not just physical damage, it can be physiological, which is what happened to me with excessive aerobic exercise at high heart rates.

I was not referring to actual max rates anyway. I meant exercise max rates. And yes, there are a jillion. Many gurus have their own proprietary "math". Then there's the 220 minus your age.

 

[audreyh1]

Who says there isn't a cardio aspect to weight lifting. To go one step further, my gym has a sled to push, stack 295 lbs on that and try to sprint with it, talk about getting your heart rate up.

Definitely! Nothing jacks my heart rate up faster than lifting some hand weights in full body moves (like with squats or lunges) or even just push-ups.

I have a heart rate monitor on all the time during my short cardio and free weights sessions, and the weights get my heart rate up higher than the cardio.

 

[audreyh1]

I get into the 170s all the time rowing. I feel fine usually, but I also usually back off a bit anyway and keep it under 170. 56 female - my max heart rate is supposedly 171 or something. I've made it to 180 this year once I think.

 

[Aerides]

Yes, a long session of squats, or clean and press combos will get me well into the 150's and higher. Low-impact high-repeat weight bearing exercise can easily equal the HR intensity of high impact cardio, and there's increased evidence that muscle fatigue via high reps is as good as short set/high weight fatigue.

And I do agree those zone 5 type HR's are for final push on a race, not for something during a normal workout.

 

[LOL!]

Not correct. There is other data on these boards somewhere concerning this. You can overdo it. And it's not just physical damage, it can be physiological, which is what happened to me with excessive aerobic exercise at high heart rates.

I was not referring to actual max rates anyway. I meant exercise max rates. And yes, there are a jillion. Many gurus have their own proprietary "math". Then there's the 220 minus your age.

You must be in fantastic shape to be able to sustain your max heart rate for more than a few minutes. At least for me, I would have gone anaerobic and cannot get enough air in my lungs and would collapse in a heap of heavy breathing within 30 seconds of reaching my true max heart rate.

Heart Rate Training Zones

Here is a calculator I use:
http://www.runningforfitness.org/ca...rs/hrzone?minHR=39&maxHR=168&Submit=Calculate

 

[gmshedd]

Two notes of caution on HRM readings:
1. I have observed in side-by-side testing that a wrist-based HRM is not necessarily as reliable as a chest-strap-based HRM. The wrist strap HR lagged the chest strap HR by ~20 bpm or more at rates above 150 bpm. The recent Fitbit lawsuit sort of confirms this---especially for those who want to monitor HR during HIIT (Fitbit heart rate tech 'puts consumers at risk' according to lawsuit scientist). Perhaps some are better than others, but I get the feeling that there are very few optical HR sensor manufacturers who OEM to the major players.
2. No matter what HRM technology you use, don't trust any single reading from a digital readout. Graph the data to discriminate between noisy data and believable data. See the example below for an example of noisy data during the 6th interval. I've found that the contact patches on my chest strap (Garmin) need to be thoroughly soaked before using; otherwise, the data becomes noisy. If I hadn't looked at the graph, I'd have thought that the highest HR during this exercise session was in the high 170's instead of the low 160's.

 

[O2Bfree]

I used to hit 220 lifting weights...when I had tachycardia attacks due to an extra electrical pathway in my heart. Sometimes I'd feel like I was going to pass out because my heart didn't have time to fill between beats. Amazing muscle, to be able to pump that fast.

 

[TromboneAl]

TromboneAl: Re your ~140 max HR, What HRM are you using? I compared a wrist unit (Microsoft Band) to a chest strap (Garmin) and they weren't even close at higher rates. The wrist unit lagged by at least 20 bpm. NB: The lowest common denominator approach to estimating maximum HR is 220 minus age, which would make you ~80.

It's the Garmin Edge cyclocomputer with a chest strap. It agrees well with my "manual" (digital, ha ha) measurements.

220 - 62 = 158 as my estimated max.

 

[LOL!]

When this thread first started, it made me want to go out and do some high intensity interval training. Later on, as the thread got older, it made me want to go out and run 10 miles.

Fortunately, I got over those feelings before I pulled a muscle and didn't succumb to doing anything.

 

[gmshedd]

As for the pulling a muscle part: I have been walking for exercise for the last 7 years. When I visit my family's farm I walk a hilly route where I can push hard enough to get to the upper reaches of my heart rate (it's there that I've gotten my best estimates of my max HR). So, wanting to get the same HIIT effects back home where my walking route is much flatter, I decided I'd try some short (200m) sprints. Seemed like 30-40 seconds of effort would be about right. The first time out, I walked for half a mile to warm up, then reached a flat level stretch where I decided to give it a go. Not five paces into my "sprint" I pulled a hamstring! Six weeks later, the soreness is almost gone, and I've started jogging that flat section. Message: If you are going to do anything at high intensity that you don't normally do, think again! Ease into it.

 

[ls99]

When this thread first started, it made me want to go out and do some high intensity interval training. Later on, as the thread got older, it made me want to go out and run 10 miles.

Fortunately, I got over those feelings before I pulled a muscle and didn't succumb to doing anything.

Gotta bow to the wisdom of the wise one.

'tis better to learn from the screwups of others. Though the self inflicted ones tend to leave deeper impression.

 

[eytonxav]

Gotta bow to the wisdom of the wise one.

'tis better to learn from the screwups of others. Though the self inflicted ones tend to leave deeper impression.

+1 the wisdom in that made me LOL

 

[Danmar]

I've recently been increasing my daily spinning workouts by doing 40 second sprints with 20 second recoveries. Do this for 30-40 minutes. HR peaks at 154-156 but generally doesn't reduce much during recovery periods, maybe 5BPM. Average HR for entire workout in the low 140's. Pretty intense but preparing for bike trip in a few weeks. Probably not the best workout but at least I do it regularly. 66 years young.

 

[LOL!]

^How do you know if you are working hard? What is your max heart rate? If you jogged for 30-40 minutes wouldn't your average heart rate be in the 140's anyways?

I write this mostly to help people know that without knowing your max heart rate and perhaps your perceived exertion level, then numbers are not comparable.

https://runningonhealthy.com/2014/08/20/heart-rate-vs-perceived-exertion/

 

[Danmar]

^How do you know if you are working hard? What is your max heart rate? If you jogged for 30-40 minutes wouldn't your average heart rate be in the 140's anyways?

I write this mostly to help people know that without knowing your max heart rate and perhaps your perceived exertion level, then numbers are not comparable.

https://runningonhealthy.com/2014/08/20/heart-rate-vs-perceived-exertion/

Not sure what my max heart rate is. Probably in low 160's as I am 66. Don't jog so not sure about that. Average heart rate in the 140's seems like a pretty tough workout for me. Been doing this for about 35 years, so I know tough when I feel it. Stays in the 140-155 range for about 20 minutes. Lose about 2 lbs of sweat. Don't forget it takes 12-15 minutes to get it into the 140's starting at 70bpm?

 

[eytonxav]

Not sure what my max heart rate is. Probably in low 160's as I am 66. Don't jog so not sure about that. Average heart rate in the 140's seems like a pretty tough workout for me. Been doing this for about 35 years, so I know tough when I feel it. Stays in the 140-155 range for about 20 minutes. Lose about 2 lbs of sweat. Don't forget it takes 12-15 minutes to get it into the 140's starting at 70bpm?

I think you are doing really well for someone your age at that average heart rate.