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Old 08-22-2016, 07:03 AM   #121
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Gotta bow to the wisdom of the wise one.

'tis better to learn from the screwups of others. Though the self inflicted ones tend to leave deeper impression.
+1 the wisdom in that made me LOL
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Old 08-22-2016, 08:16 AM   #122
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I've recently been increasing my daily spinning workouts by doing 40 second sprints with 20 second recoveries. Do this for 30-40 minutes. HR peaks at 154-156 but generally doesn't reduce much during recovery periods, maybe 5BPM. Average HR for entire workout in the low 140's. Pretty intense but preparing for bike trip in a few weeks. Probably not the best workout but at least I do it regularly. 66 years young.
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:17 AM   #123
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^How do you know if you are working hard? What is your max heart rate? If you jogged for 30-40 minutes wouldn't your average heart rate be in the 140's anyways?

I write this mostly to help people know that without knowing your max heart rate and perhaps your perceived exertion level, then numbers are not comparable.

https://runningonhealthy.com/2014/08...ived-exertion/
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:28 AM   #124
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^How do you know if you are working hard? What is your max heart rate? If you jogged for 30-40 minutes wouldn't your average heart rate be in the 140's anyways?

I write this mostly to help people know that without knowing your max heart rate and perhaps your perceived exertion level, then numbers are not comparable.

https://runningonhealthy.com/2014/08...ived-exertion/
Not sure what my max heart rate is. Probably in low 160's as I am 66. Don't jog so not sure about that. Average heart rate in the 140's seems like a pretty tough workout for me. Been doing this for about 35 years, so I know tough when I feel it. Stays in the 140-155 range for about 20 minutes. Lose about 2 lbs of sweat. Don't forget it takes 12-15 minutes to get it into the 140's starting at 70bpm?
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:43 AM   #125
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Not sure what my max heart rate is. Probably in low 160's as I am 66. Don't jog so not sure about that. Average heart rate in the 140's seems like a pretty tough workout for me. Been doing this for about 35 years, so I know tough when I feel it. Stays in the 140-155 range for about 20 minutes. Lose about 2 lbs of sweat. Don't forget it takes 12-15 minutes to get it into the 140's starting at 70bpm?
I think you are doing really well for someone your age at that average heart rate.
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:03 AM   #126
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I can also sweat a lot down here in Texas. I can lose 2 lbs of sweat routinely, but it makes my heart rate go up due to the phenomenon of cardiac drift. I have to drink heavily before prolonged exercise and during exercise to keep my heart rate down.

As a former bike racer, I could not repetitively sprint all out for 40 seconds and recover 20 seconds for more than say a few minutes without a full HR recovery to 120 or so. I would be a marshmallow. Your workout would kill me, so I am impressed.

I could cycle and if I stay hydrated I could stay in the 140-155 HR range for a quite while. My max HR is around 170 and I am 59. Your max HR could be even higher.
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:13 AM   #127
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Here is a chart for HR vs intensity vs age:
Aerobic Exercise Intensity and Target Heart Rate - HPMC Occupational Health Services
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:24 AM   #128
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Thanks for posting. 65%-85% of maximum heart rate is a tight window to hit when exercising, at least for me.
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:43 AM   #129
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^Unfortunately, that link uses 220-age as one's max heart rate which probably does not apply to the majority people. And worse, the link doesn't even hint that 220-age is an estimate with error bars of more than plus-or-minus 20 bpm.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:26 AM   #130
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^Unfortunately, that link uses 220-age as one's max heart rate which probably does not apply to the majority people. And worse, the link doesn't even hint that 220-age is an estimate with error bars of more than plus-or-minus 20 bpm.
I think its just a gauge or guideline, as it would be difficult to have a formula that precisely determines what someone's MHR would be. For most, I think its a reasonable starting point, and its pretty universally accepted, even from places such as the Mayo Clinic. If you have something better, can you share it?
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:00 PM   #131
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If you have something better, can you share it?
I thought I did earlier in the thread. Essentially: Don't use a formula, go do an exercise test that hits your max heart rate.

But here you go:
http://www.runningforfitness.org/cal...bmit=Calculate
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:14 PM   #132
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I can also sweat a lot down here in Texas. I can lose 2 lbs of sweat routinely, but it makes my heart rate go up due to the phenomenon of cardiac drift. I have to drink heavily before prolonged exercise and during exercise to keep my heart rate down.

As a former bike racer, I could not repetitively sprint all out for 40 seconds and recover 20 seconds for more than say a few minutes without a full HR recovery to 120 or so. I would be a marshmallow. Your workout would kill me, so I am impressed.

I could cycle and if I stay hydrated I could stay in the 140-155 HR range for a quite while. My max HR is around 170 and I am 59. Your max HR could be even higher.
I don't think my 40sec sprints are "all out" If they were I couldn't do the 30 back to back I do. They are quite difficult though. I would guess maybe 220-230 watts. The recovers maybe 190-200 watts, but this is just a guess as the spinning bike doesn't have watts. Today I did a tough one and stayed in the 140-155 BPM range for about 25 minutes, high was 157 and average over 36 minutes was 145.
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:57 PM   #133
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I thought I did earlier in the thread. Essentially: Don't use a formula, go do an exercise test that hits your max heart rate.

But here you go:
Max HR calculator | Running for Fitness
Thanks, I failed to look at that link.
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Old 08-22-2016, 02:38 PM   #134
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Yet another calculator.

For me max HR us anywhere between 159 and 170. But I routinely get up into the 170s rowing and don't feel particularly winded, warm maybe. I usually back off into the 160s, but I can sustain in the 160s no problem.
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Old 08-22-2016, 02:53 PM   #135
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Yet another calculator [observation].

For me [the suggested calculated] max HR us anywhere between 159 and 170. But I routinely get up into the 170s rowing and don't feel particularly winded, warm maybe. I usually back off into the 160s, but I can sustain in the 160s no problem.
Clearly, your max heart rate is in the 170s or even higher and the standard HR max calculators do not apply to you. To read about many others that the calculators do not work for, please read the responses at the bottom of this link:
Maximum Heart Rate | Running for Fitness
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Old 08-27-2016, 07:57 PM   #136
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Another max heart rate piece. The comments are interesting, too:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/0...et-heart-rate/
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Old 08-28-2016, 11:51 AM   #137
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Relative to a stress test, can't the result depend on whether the individual conducting the test pushes you enough to reach a maximum heart rate or stops somewhere short?
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:35 PM   #138
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Relative to a stress test, can't the result depend on whether the individual conducting the test pushes you enough to reach a maximum heart rate or stops somewhere short?
Yes, that is true. I said as much back in post #109:
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You can search online for HR formulas, but the reality is that an exercise test is really needed to determine your max HR. And if you ever did a treadmill stress test for something else that might not have reached your max heart rate because the rule-of-thumb formula is good enough for the technician to stop the test early.
Some of the comments in the links I gave also relate that experience.
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Old 08-28-2016, 03:26 PM   #139
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Yes, that is true. I said as much back in post #109:


Some of the comments in the links I gave also relate that experience.
Probably need to be tested by a sports oriented facility and technician if you are looking for max, as its unlikely they will push anyone hard enough in a cardiologist's office. I've had two stress test from different cardiologists and I recall one test being harder than the other. Given that, the general algorithms/calculators are probably reasonable for most people.
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Old 08-28-2016, 04:48 PM   #140
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One could ask their cardiologist about the stress test and beforehand request that the cardiologist tell the technician to get one's max heart rate. This assumes no pathological problems that would stop the test before then.

Yes, a sports-oriented cardiologist would be more helpful I would think.

But if one is in shape and has a heart-rate monitor that they believe works well, then one should be able to get their own max heart rate during exercise. Several web sites have protocols for this.

My max matches what I got in a stress test, but neither was a stroll in the park. That is, I think one has to really really push oneself which is probably not possible for someone not in shape.

And yes, rules-of-thumb are fine for most people, but when someone says "Oh, max calculated heart rate is 160, but I can carry on a conversation while running without breathing hard and my HR is 170", then we know the rule-of-thumb is completely bogus for them.
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