"Hope to Die at 75"

[sengsational]

I agree with you 100% But our current health care system does not want to fast-track the dying process. The majority of profit is made from people over the age of 65.

Until health care is no longer viewed as an opportunity for profit, people will die slowly and badly.

True. So sad.

 

[walkinwood]

A number of us have stated that we don't want to prolong our life after we hit a certain point - pain, dementia etc. But what have we done to facilitate that? Most of us probably have some kind of generic living will, but that's hardly enough.

For me, that's the biggest impact of this article. To begin the thought process to determine what we would accept & what we wouldn't before it is out of our control.

An easy example for me - if I am diagnosed with Alzheimer's and there is no cure on the horizon, I would stop all other diagnostic tests (for cancer, cardiac etc) and probably refuse other treatments too. I would have to make some kind of binding directive to accomplish that. I just don't see the point in living with full blown, incurable Alzheimers. But that's ME. Other scenarios are much harder - at what age would I refuse a heart bypass? I don't have to stick with the decision, but I think I'll make a better one if I think/research about it before I am forced to make it quickly.

 

[MuirWannabe]

And it's pretty well documented that one of the reasons for much higher health care costs in the USA is end of life health care costs, often for patients whose quality of life has all but disappeared. As a country, we may have to confront the issue one of these days.

Oh, I hope not. This is an issue better left to individuals and families. Each person likely defines their quality of life differently than others. I like empowering the individual rather than leaving it up to a country to define as a matter of social policy. Not sure that was your point so if I've misunderstood then my bad.

And to the extent this guys article is really just his reflection on what he would do in his individual situation then fine. To the extent it is an attempt to push society towards that direction I'm not a big fan of that.

 

[Midpack]

Oh, I hope not. This is an issue better left to individuals and families. Each person likely defines their quality of life differently than others. I like empowering the individual rather than leaving it up to a country to define as a matter of social policy. Not sure that was your point so if I've misunderstood then my bad.

And to the extent this guys article is really just his reflection on what he would do in his individual situation then fine. To the extent it is an attempt to push society towards that direction I'm not a big fan of that.

I didn't advocate "leaving it up to a country." It should be left to individuals and families. But right now way too many elders don't have directives in place ***, and (too) many families avoid the decision and choose continuing care beyond when it arguably makes sense even for the patient - facilitated in part by a system where costs are largely unknown. At some point, we may have to confront the issue of end of life care costs instead of avoiding the issue(s).

Over 2/3 of the adult population have no Living Will or other advance directive.

*** If true, it's inexcusable IMO.
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/Commissions/myths_fact_hc_ad.authcheckdam.pdf

 

[friar1610]

I want to be able to celebrate 75 with a triple axel.

Beats the hell out of a triple bypass!

 

[Brat]

To refuse a flu shot at any age is nuts because someone with the flu is a vector of a contagious disease.. flu shots provide 'herd immunity' for those who are susceptible. As pneumonia isn't generally contagious passing on that one at the end of life is appropriate.

 

[Eagle43]

I want to make 100 years. If I do, I will still be around when Mr Emanuel dies. Good luck Zeke.

Sent from my AT100 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[growing_older]

I know quite a few people who agree with this sentiment, that they value quality of life and do not want to extend their own life to great old age if it involves debilitating or painful conditions. Power to them and everyone should be entitled to their own opinions and even some measure of control over their own destiny. For myself, I am of as opposite opinion as possible. Not that I seek out a debilitating or painful future for myself, but if that does happen in my future, I want as much of that future as possible and I will find a way to make the most of it that I can.

 

[Midpack]

Beyond quality of life, it's interesting those who advocate for as long a life as possible don't even casually address who pays for all that very costly end of life care. The patient rarely if ever pays it all, the majority of those costs are passed on to others in premiums and taxes. How much should others pay to artificially extend the life of another for days/weeks/months?

 

[Lucantes]

Every life is a Tragedy because in the end the main character dies.

I've always felt that mine was quite ribald!


I have been fortunate so far, so my current stance is that I want to live and will fight tooth and nail for it.
I do however realize that my view may change quite sharply if I was in a situation where my quality of life was very very bad, although sometimes when that occurs you are not in the position to do anything about it right?

 

[Totoro]

To refuse a flu shot at any age is nuts because someone with the flu is a vector of a contagious disease.. flu shots provide 'herd immunity' for those who are susceptible.

For herd immunity the vaccine needs to be at least >80% effective. The flu shot isn't that effective (more around 60%). It's one of the reasons why not all countries have it in a standardized program.

For other diseases (polio for example) you are absolutely right.

 

[Chuckanut]

Interesting Read: Why I Hope to Die at 75 - The Atlantic

Setting a personal end-point makes ER even more important:

By the time I reach 75, I will have lived a complete life. I will have loved and been loved. My children will be grown and in the midst of their own rich lives. I will have seen my grandchildren born and beginning their lives. I will have pursued my life’s projects and made whatever contributions, important or not, I am going to make. And hopefully, I will not have too many mental and physical limitations. Dying at 75 will not be a tragedy.

Why not go all the way and join the group at Logan's Run??

 

[Chuckanut]

But I agree, I've seen some pretty active 75 year olds, I would not consider that any sort of hard limit.

+1

A former co-worker's husband completed the circumnavigation of Mt. Rainer by backpack in his mid 70's.

 

[marko]

So the 'Architect of Obamacare' is now telling us how decrepit, useless and expensive the over 75 crowd is.

Disturbing?

Logan's Run anyone?

 

[HFWR]

So the 'Architect of Obamacare' is now telling us how decrepit, useless and expensive the over 75 crowd is.

Disturbing?

Logan's Run anyone?

Mitt Romney?

 

[marko]

Mitt Romney?

Ok, I'm stumped! What did Romney say about old people?
Or do you mean that he was the 'architect of Obamacare' instead of Emmanuel/Obama?

Either way...Mr. Emmanuel's comments remain disturbing, IMHO

 

[Sojourner]

Extremely interesting thread here. I think I am in the "If I'm healthy and active at 75, then by all means let's continue routine screenings and preventative care" camp. As others have said, I've seen very little quality of life in people over 85, and I'm guessing this will be the case for me too if I get there. I suppose ultimately it comes down to, are you getting (or anticipating getting) enough out of life each day to warrant whatever pain, money, time, and effort it takes to prolong it? One could always argue that, even at 85 and in poor health, you might be able to imagine something in your future that is really worth fighting and surviving another year or two to experience.

 

[Midpack]

New follow up thread?

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/being-mortal-new-book-73924.html

 

[HFWR]

Ok, I'm stumped! What did Romney say about old people?

Something awful, I'm sure...

I believe O-Care is fashioned after R-Care, thus Mitt being the "architect"...

I do not wish to sidetrack this thread with politics, but end of life counseling does not equal "death panels".

 

[marko]

Something awful, I'm sure...

I believe O-Care is fashioned after R-Care, thus Mitt being the "architect"...

I do not wish to sidetrack this thread with politics, but end of life counseling does not equal "death panels".

My only point was that Dr Emmanuel's article seemed to focus/imply on how the over 75 crowd is a drag on the HC system and life in general rather than those younger.

Had he not been heavily involved in crafting O'care, I'd have written him off as just a crank. His involvement with such however, coupled to his comments are one of those things that "make you want to go 'hmmmm'".

No biggie.

 

[Midpack]

My only point was that Dr Emmanuel's article seemed to focus/imply on how the over 75 crowd is a drag on the HC system and life in general rather than those younger.

Focusing on the specific age, 75, completely misses the broader point - end of life quality and costs.

Again, I wouldn't be surprised if they deliberately used "75" as the provocative headline to get people to read the article.

 

[MichaelB]

New follow up thread?

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/being-mortal-new-book-73924.html

This one has run its course so let's move the discussion over there.