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Old 09-02-2010, 07:32 AM   #41
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I think being miltantly anti-smoker, particularly when you get in people's faces marks you as a bit too arrogant. Get real, smokers pose a very very small risk to you, smaller than almost anyone driving down a road you are on.

Anyway, as a matter of personal survival I avoid confronting people. If you live long enough, plenty of people will take the initiative and confront you on whatever trespasses they have decided that you are making against them.

I don't smoke and never have, but I don't consider it to be a moral issue at all. Many very nice, well educated people smoke. Like Martha said, many started along time ago and have not been able to quit. Barack Obama smokes, and which of you is cooler than he? Vicente smokes, and what male on this board has a more pleasant persoanlity than he? Certainly not I and I am a nonsmoker.

Ha
And I would describe arrogant, militant smokers as those who smoke (or carry lit cigs) in areas they know they should not be smoking, such as elevators, movie theaters, trains, near gas pumps, and restaurants. But when a non-smoker complains about these rude, inconsiderate, and illegal acts, they are the ones portrayed as the arrogant, nasty people, not the ones who actually caused the problems - the smokers themselves. If the smokers would stop lighting up where they are not supposed to, we non-smokers would not have anything to complain about.

In one of my elevator confrontations back in the 1980s, I held an elevator door open as I politely asked a man with a lit cig to please put it out or leave the elevator. He did neither and I had 8 other people in the elevator angry at ME, not the smoker who was causing the problem. Strangely, everyone else chose to leave the elevator instead of joining me to get the real offender - the smoker - to either put out the cig or leave the elevator so I would let the door close. So who was the arrogant one? Not me!
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:46 AM   #42
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Well, I do see your point, particualry since you apparently restrict yourself to confronting illegal smokers.

But I guess the elevator experience that you recounted in above post does show that social perceptions don't always follow moral principles.

But as I said, I figure a small exposure to illegal smoking is less danger to me than getting vocal about it. I don't like it either when a group walks 3 or 4 abreast and I have to clear aside for them to pass on the sidewalk- but I feel that the discrete thing to do is to realize that there isn't much courtesy around, and one really doesn't ever know who he is dealing with, so be cool ha.

If it were dangerous, like around solvents, I would just get the hell away. I could be gone by the time I made the stop smoking request.

Ha
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:43 AM   #43
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. I don't like it either when a group walks 3 or 4 abreast and I have to clear aside for them to pass on the sidewalk- but I feel that the discrete thing to do is to realize that there isn't much courtesy around, and one really doesn't ever know who he is dealing with, so be cool ha.
. . . and sloppily "sneeze" in their direction as they pass. "Excuse me! These allergies . . . "
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:23 AM   #44
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I remember once back in the late 70's getting onto an elevator in a court house. The elevator was packed and one person came on with a lit cig.. Turns out there was a cop in plain clothes on the elevator and asked the man to put out his cig.. He refused and the cop ID himself and the man still refused. Turns out he was an attorney with his client. The cop told him to get off the elevator while holding the door open for him. He again refused, the cop grabbed him and took him off the elevator and gave him a summons. The law was clearly marked inside the elevator. Everyone started to applaud. I though it was great. He was one unhappy attorney.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:39 AM   #45
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The elevator was packed and one person came on with a lit cig.. Turns out there was a cop in plain clothes on the elevator and asked the man to put out his cig.. He refused and the cop ID himself and the man still refused. Turns out he was an attorney with his client.
I'll bet there's quite a bit of , um, "chemistry" between cops and criminal defense attorneys. You might have witnessed one chapter of a long-running story. Good for the cop--lots of witnesses and a clear violation--SCORE!"
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:53 AM   #46
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Barack Obama smokes, and which of you is cooler than he? Vicente smokes, and what male on this board has a more pleasant persoanlity than he? Certainly not I and I am a nonsmoker.

Ha
Ha.....Now youīve overdone it. And being mentioned in the same pragraph with Obama. Some people might not like the association and turn their back on your president:
And I donīt fool myself: Iīm a bit embarrassed by my addiction. Most of my friends my age have quit along the past few years.
There are no excuses for me .....but my sedentary life and being an early riser with so few hobbies donīt help. Most of them a sedentary ones: reading, listening to audiobooks, watching movies, slow walks.....
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:02 AM   #47
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I'
There are lots of exceptions but mostly smokers are from the lower socioeconomic ranks/blue collar/low class.
Thatīs certainly not the case here in Spain. All sorts of people smoke, quit, relapse (90%) or never have smoked.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:06 AM   #48
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I think being miltantly anti-smoker, particularly when you get in people's faces marks you as a bit too arrogant. Get real, smokers pose a very very small risk to you, smaller than almost anyone driving down a road you are on.

Anyway, as a matter of personal survival I avoid confronting people. If you live long enough, plenty of people will take the initiative and confront you on whatever trespasses they have decided that you are making against them.

....
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
....

But as I said, I figure a small exposure to illegal smoking is less danger to me than getting vocal about it. I don't like it either when a group walks 3 or 4 abreast and I have to clear aside for them to pass on the sidewalk- but I feel that the discrete thing to do is to realize that there isn't much courtesy around, and one really doesn't ever know who he is dealing with, [I]so be cool ha[/I].
....
Ha
Very well put, Ha. What pops into my head is that the good social aspects of being around a smoker outweigh the temporary discomfort. I grew up with chain-smoking second-hand smoke both at home and in cars. I cough, my eyes water and god knows what it did to my long-term health. Most people I know these days are discreet about it, hold the cigarette away from others, walk behind whoever they are with, downwind, take the outside chairs at the coffee shop, etc. (My Dutch acquaintances remind me that coffee shop in Holland is where one buys weed).

Not confronting people is common sense street smarts, IMO. I live in an apartment building where you don't hear what goes on inside apts. but you can hear what is said in the hallways. Well, last evening one of my neighbors confronted me. She totally lost it, loudly; now anyone within earshot knows how she deals with frustration. One of my belongings, that is, my cat, had escaped into the hallway where she joined two others that are always out there when their "staff" is home. Neighbor was screaming that she can't control her leashed dog, is afraid she will lunge at a cat and kill it, "don't sue me if it happens." I could get an eviction notice over this and somehow it strikes me funny this morning.

Being cool will be a challenge today, we're into another heat wave without A/C.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:20 PM   #49
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Neighbor was screaming that she can't control her leashed dog, is afraid she will lunge at a cat and kill it, "don't sue me if it happens." I could get an eviction notice over this and somehow it strikes me funny this morning.

Being cool will be a challenge today, we're into another heat wave without A/C.
I hope eviction will not be an issue. Probably you will be fine. A lunatic loudly went off on a guy in my building about some infraction that he was doing, but he was told to shut down (he was operating a bike repair from his garage) and she was warned to watch her language and aggro tendencies or she would be evicted.

That weather is strange. It is quite cool up here now-65 and sunny at 10:20.

Ha
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:19 PM   #50
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And I would describe arrogant, militant smokers as those who smoke (or carry lit cigs) in areas they know they should not be smoking, such as elevators, movie theaters, trains, near gas pumps, and restaurants. But when a non-smoker complains about these rude, inconsiderate, and illegal acts, they are the ones portrayed as the arrogant, nasty people, not the ones who actually caused the problems - the smokers themselves. If the smokers would stop lighting up where they are not supposed to, we non-smokers would not have anything to complain about.

In one of my elevator confrontations back in the 1980s, I held an elevator door open as I politely asked a man with a lit cig to please put it out or leave the elevator. He did neither and I had 8 other people in the elevator angry at ME, not the smoker who was causing the problem. Strangely, everyone else chose to leave the elevator instead of joining me to get the real offender - the smoker - to either put out the cig or leave the elevator so I would let the door close. So who was the arrogant one? Not me!

I suspect this had a lot more to do with people's desire to avoid confrontation than supporting smoking. My guess is they were upset because you "made a scene". The average person does not like that......regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

I doubt I would have made the effort to confront him, but I sure would have been pleased as punch to see someone else confront him, and would have supported your position.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:31 PM   #51
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I suspect this had a lot more to do with people's desire to avoid confrontation than supporting smoking. My guess is they were upset because you "made a scene". The average person does not like that......regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

I doubt I would have made the effort to confront him, but I sure would have been pleased as punch to see someone else confront him, and would have supported your position.
To me, it was the rude smoker who was causing the scene. I refused to be a doormat and ride in an elevator which would feel like a gas chamber and be a fire hazard, so I stood up for myself. Arrogant smokers count on others to suffer in silence when they smoke in places they are not supposed to.

Before all the people left the elevator, I had yelled out, "Security!" to get the old guy who watched the lobby area to get the smoker to leave. However, he (a smoker, unfortunately) just walked away when I pointed out the smoker inside the elevator with me. If I had the assertiveness back then I would acquire later, I would have reported that lobby guy to my company's administrative services department and to the building's management. To top this off, this confrontation happened to occur on my birthday.

I guess I thought yelling "Security!" would have had the same positive effect it had the year before when a smoker tried to do the same thing at my college. She entered an elevator with a lit cig and I stood in the doorway and asked her to leave or put out the cig. (There were no other passengers this time.) She snarled at me so I yelled for security. The uniformed guard walked over and ordered her out of the elevator. She snarled again at me and I let the door close and went on my merry way.

Back then, I was always careful to look for smokers trying to "hide" their lit cigs between their fingers and would make sure to board the elevator near the control panel so I could hold the Door Open button if I had to. This was a common occurrence when I was in college, as students who smoked were frequently rude in this way.

Again, in my mind, it was always the smoker who was causing the scene with his rude, inconsiderate, and illegal actions. Reacting to such acts to thwart such actions was the only right thing to do and not be a doormat.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:43 PM   #52
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Thirty years later and I still have that dream about once a year......


My uncle lived with emphysema for years. I remember my mother saying emphysema won't kill you - it will just make you wish you were dead. He committed suicide a couple years ago. As heart-breaking as it was, I think his kids and wife understood. Life was hell for him.

Yes - for many, smoking is not just a bad habit. It is a drug addiction.
I made the decision never to smoke after watching a family friend die of smoking-induced COPD over a period of about 4 years. He described his life as being slowly strangled or of drowning. Every breath was more difficult than the last. Eventually, even with O2, he gasped for every breath, his eyes bulged out, his skin was blue, his chest was visibly the largest part of his otherwise shrinking frame, his every effort was to breath - not walk, talk, eat, etc. I can't imagine a more cruel death. It was difficult to visit him, but I felt I had to as he had been such a good friend. This - - isn't too much of an exaggeration of his last few months, confined to a bed.

I wish I could show his agony to anyone today considering even trying a cigarette. I make no personal judgement on anyone who smokes. It is their decision. I just hope they are ready to endure the possible consequences. I would definitely consider the 9mm solution if such a fate ever awaited me - whether smoking-induced or otherwise.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:52 AM   #53
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Reports from California or New York lead us Spaniards to believe that smoking is for you something akin to a crime/rude behaviour.
When I'm waiting to cross a crowded street corner and someone's cigarette smoke next to me is hitting me in the face, I cannot believe it took humanity this long to realize that the smoker is being rude. So yes, more of us are coming to see this as rude behavior, and its baffling that it took this long.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:07 PM   #54
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I agree, if I sat down in a restaurant for dinner and spent the night passing gas would that be much different than smoking? Both are rude, no?
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:21 AM   #55
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I agree, if I sat down in a restaurant for dinner and spent the night passing gas would that be much different than smoking? Both are rude, no?
I've been known to pass gas in a restaurant. I don't ever recall it being a conscious decision. Although that would be a cool party trick.
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:32 AM   #56
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Nick, you need to get a little older. (heh)
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:18 PM   #57
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When I'm waiting to cross a crowded street corner and someone's cigarette smoke next to me is hitting me in the face, I cannot believe it took humanity this long to realize that the smoker is being rude. So yes, more of us are coming to see this as rude behavior, and its baffling that it took this long.
Not so baffling. Over time we've gone from most smoke to most don't smoke. The majority determines right and wrong.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:03 PM   #58
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My father smoked. There are 5 kids in our family, none of us smoke. In the late 60's, in the Air Force, it seems like a lot of the pilots smoked. A standard briefing room was smaller than 10x10. It was not unusual for you to have four to eight pilots in the room for an hour and a half briefing and have 6 of them smoking. Fast forward 20 years, and there was no smoking in the squadron. Out of the 20 of so pilots assigned to my last squadron, I would say no more than two or three smoked.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:10 PM   #59
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Methane smells even worse than cigarette smoke, but AFAIK isn't dangerous to those around you. Plus, I never heard of anyone inadvertently lighting up a cigarette! (And going "oops," or trying to pretend it wasn't really them).

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I agree, if I sat down in a restaurant for dinner and spent the night passing gas would that be much different than smoking? Both are rude, no?
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:12 PM   #60
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Don't smoke and none of my immediete family members smoke. I used to share office with a guy who smokes. At that time I was working in Malaysia and there was no ban on smoking indoors - the company did not even have a policy of no smoking indoors. At the end of every day, I smell like an ashtray. Good thing the guy was asked to leave shortly - turned out he had an alcohol problem.
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