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Old 01-19-2013, 04:35 PM   #21
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Does anyone know if HSA's/high deductible plans will be available under the HCA? From some of the comments, it sounds like the Mass plan DOES NOT allow high deductible plans. If the only option for individuals with assets trying to retire early is to get a low deductible plan and pay out the nose, then the ACA is actually not helping those wanting to retire early.
I know you won't believe this but I do not think Obama created this plan for people who want to retire early
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gerrym51 View Post
under obamacare this kind of policy and deductible will not be allowed
This may well be true, but I've yet to find anything definitive on this. Do you have a concrete source for this?

I've read that the medical loss ratio (MLR) specified in the law is the mechanism that will be used to kill off HDHP's while other sources claim this isn't necessarily true (this https://hsa.umb.com/stellent/groups/...ent/040802.pdf says that for non-employer based HDHP's the MLR doesn't apply).

Personally, we've been very pleased with our HDHP/HSA in early retirement.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:09 PM   #23
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I know you won't believe this but I do not think Obama created this plan for people who want to retire early
Well, I don't think anyone, business or gov't, is out to help us retire early. That's why we have the E-R Forum

There are two issues with high deductible amounts in the PPACA.

First, the high deductible - low premium combination attracts not only higher net worth folks, it also lures lower income people who can't afford higher premiums. Because some also can't afford the deductible, they still forgo some necessary care, so the HD ends up being a negative incentive to healthcare.

Second, as the PPACA attempts to standardize healthcare insurance pricing, it fixes the amount that must be spent on healthcare by policy group. HD policies are more volatile and have fewer policyholders so they don't easily fit the designated financial framework.

High deductibles are available in the PPACA, just not at the levels some here would like. Looking at the link I provided earlier, a bronze level policy could have a cost share of more than $6k per family, which is a pretty significant amount for most.

I would imagine once the initial implementation is behind us this will be revisited.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #24
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Obamacare like Romneycare has a goal of getting people covered.

very high deductible plans are not allowed=for obvious reasons.

the young-who are relativley healthy will only buy those kind of plans.

the goal is get more money from the young to subsidize the old.

the other thing is the government mandates what minimum coverage is.

in mass. were i live minimim coverage is basically everything.

free exams,yearly tests,in vitro fertalization,mandatory psychiatric coverage etc.

mass legislature logic is that insurance with too high deductibles and co insurance will discourage poorer people from actually using it.

unless your poor enough to be subsidized-watch out.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:29 PM   #25
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This may well be true, but I've yet to find anything definitive on this. Do you have a concrete source for this?

I've read that the medical loss ratio (MLR) specified in the law is the mechanism that will be used to kill off HDHP's while other sources claim this isn't necessarily true (this https://hsa.umb.com/stellent/groups/...ent/040802.pdf says that for non-employer based HDHP's the MLR doesn't apply).

Personally, we've been very pleased with our HDHP/HSA in early retirement.

all i can tell you is what is mass. law and Obamacare is a copy. Obamacare is out to get more people covered subsidized by US
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:34 PM   #26
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Is this about high deductibles policies or is it just a rant?
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:36 PM   #27
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Is this about high deductibles policies or is it just a rant?

are you posting to me. I am not ranting(i think). i just think based on mass. experience and what i know of obamacare high deductilbe policies will not be allowed.

i live in mass and am about to early retire. I would love a high deductible low premium policy.

the best i can do is 475 per month/2000 deductilbe/5000 co insurance.

i can cut deductible and co-insurance by paying higher premiums up front
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:44 PM   #28
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Is this about high deductibles policies or is it just a rant?
I'm sure Gerry did not intend to spark intergenerational warfare or to bash poor people.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #29
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I'm sure it was my misunderstanding.

Let's see where we stand. Under the PPACA, HSA and high deductible policies will be available. This has been confirmed.

Very high deductible policies will not be available.

The other points on young vs old, subsidies, etc are really off topic for a health care thread.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:59 PM   #30
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I'm sure it was my misunderstanding.

Let's see where we stand. Under the PPACA, HSA and high deductible policies will be available. This has been confirmed.

Very high deductible policies will not be available.

The other points on young vs old, subsidies, etc are really off topic for a health care thread.

my question again is what is a high deductible policy. in mass 2500 max.

i think obamacare same way.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:04 PM   #31
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i looked at the original long post i wrote.

the quotes i used about poorer people being discouraged by high deductibles
is not from me.

In mass prior to romneycare we had only guaranteed issue.

a consumer group HCFA(health care for all) was advocating insurance for all.

the leader-it was JOHN Anderson(not sure of last name) said insurance with high deductibles was almost as bad as no insurance at all. he also said it had to cover everything-this is what legislature adopted

that is whom i was quoting
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:06 PM   #32
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Policies will not be available until Oct of this year, so we will have to wait until then for details. Until then we can only base our estimates on HHS publications and other official pronouncements.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:58 PM   #33
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Thanks MichaelB for answering my question about HSAs/high deductible HI and the ACA. As someone in healthcare and who wants to retire before medicare eligibility, I am trying to assess whether this is even financially feasible. And I am working under the assumption that the ACA will at least slightly improve affordability AND insurability for me and many others on this forum who are in the same boat. Thanks.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:04 PM   #34
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Thanks MichaelB for answering my question about HSAs/high deductible HI and the ACA. As someone in healthcare and who wants to retire before medicare eligibility, I am trying to assess whether this is even financially feasible. And I am working under the assumption that the ACA will at least slightly improve affordability AND insurability for me and many others on this forum who are in the same boat. Thanks.

i have said several times-i live in mass. before Romneycare we had guaranteed issue.

an insurance company had to take you for an individual policy. it was sky high.

Romneycare DID bring down the cost-but not as much as you would think.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:14 PM   #35
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i have said several times-i live in mass. before Romneycare we had guaranteed issue.

an insurance company had to take you for an individual policy. it was sky high.

Romneycare DID bring down the cost-but not as much as you would think.
I don't understand why you keep on about this, apart from beating your political drum. The OP asked a good question, he is not in Mass, and the discussion should be about the PPACA, not what is or was available in Mass.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:48 PM   #36
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I have a question about the fundamentals of the act. I've looked at he calculators and reviewed several web sites and would like to make sure I understand the two following fundamentals:

1. there will be a monthly premium that depends on your income.

2. there is a max out of pocket that also depends on income.

Am i understanding the two parts correctly? Reason I'm asking is it seems too simple so I'm trying to figure out what I've missed.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:07 PM   #37
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Well, I don't think anyone, business or gov't, is out to help us retire early. That's why we have the E-R Forum
I don't know about that. My MegaCorp paid me to go away.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:37 AM   #38
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1. there will be a monthly premium that depends on your income.
I think "depends" is too strong of a word as you've worded it. Rather, there is a subsidy which is dependent on your income if you're poor.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:55 AM   #39
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I think "depends" is too strong of a word as you've worded it. Rather, there is a subsidy which is dependent on your income if you're poor.
Let me reword. The premium is on a sliding scale. The amount you pay out if your own pocket is dependent on your income.

The part I most want to make sure I understand is he max out of pocket. In 2014, if one is covered by one of ACA plans and in a car accident that causes serious bodily harm, the most I would pay out of my pocket would be fixed based on my income. Is this correct?
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:05 AM   #40
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Policies will not be available until Oct of this year, so we will have to wait until then for details. Until then we can only base our estimates on HHS publications and other official pronouncements.
Oct at the earliest. Today even some Sun AM news talk show pundits were openly questioning whether or not this date would be pushed back as some other ACA deadlines have been.
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